[DISCUSSION] Fan Suggestion Thread

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Serazu said:
k0nr@d said:
Gorvex said:
k0nr@d said:
Gorvex said:
k0nr@d said:
I am at the final stage of making external script, which will calculate units' autocalc offence and defence values. When that is ready,  Pendor's reinforcement templates will be reviewed.
Click to expand...
Oh, that's great to hear, thanks! :mrgreen:

Edit: While taking a look at Pendor's reinforcement templates, maybe you could take a look at Pendor Light Lancer's and Pendor Lancer's inventory as well, and give them a sidearm to use on horseback? :smile:
Click to expand...
Proposed changes in 3.8.5:

Pendor_Lancer
Riding 5->7
Great_Lance (dmg:21->22, speed:55->80)
Silvered_Longsword

Pendor_Light_Lancer
Riding 5->7
Lance
Steel_Sword

Autocalc in the open field battle, attack-defence, (before):
Sarleon_Knight______________328-76
Pendor_Light_Lancer_________154-49____(152-49)
Pendor_Lancer______________182-57____(116-57)
Pendor_Mtd._Man-at-Arms_____244-57
Click to expand...
Awesome, thanks a million in advance, you're the best! :party:
Btw, I guess you meant "Riding 7->5" in the case of Pendor Light Lancer, so basically to swap the riding skills of the two units (5<->7), right? :smile:
Click to expand...
No, both will units will be 7 - for some mysterious reasons I can't reduce PLL riding skill to 5.
This is what I will propose to other devs to review - nothing decided yet.

Edit: Rearranged inventory of both Lancers and was able to get max 45-55% spawn with lance+sword, the rest only with sword. Final autocalc values
Pendor_Light_Lancer_________161-49____(152-49)
Pendor_Lancer______________208-57____(116-57)
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "only with sword"? No lances? The... Lancers?
Click to expand...
Due to Warband's " hard to predict" equipment system, there is no easy way to guarantee lances and side weapons (check Testing Grounds). Without backup swords:
- Lancers attaks are ineffective, even look tragic: form line, charge, create small groups, 20% lancers hit someone, stuck in a blob, poke enemies with long lance, die,
- very low autocalc values due to lances low DMG and speed.

Try to rearrange lancers equipment yourself, maybe you will find a way to have more than 50% solders with both weapons (share it please).

@homohobo This option is already in the game (minus CKO, KO) - it is called Snake Stronghold.
 
If you gave two lances to the Lancers, would that do the trick? Something in the likes of:

Normal lance
Blunt tip lance
Sword
Shield

I see two problems here, of course:

1. No easy way for the lancer to change between sword and lance during combat (though still preferable than having just a lance, as is the case currently).

2. The Lancer will be slower on foot (though even without a second lance, he's still weak on foot).
 
k0nr@d said:
Serazu said:
k0nr@d said:
Gorvex said:
k0nr@d said:
Gorvex said:
k0nr@d said:
I am at the final stage of making external script, which will calculate units' autocalc offence and defence values. When that is ready,  Pendor's reinforcement templates will be reviewed.
Click to expand...
Oh, that's great to hear, thanks! :mrgreen:

Edit: While taking a look at Pendor's reinforcement templates, maybe you could take a look at Pendor Light Lancer's and Pendor Lancer's inventory as well, and give them a sidearm to use on horseback? :smile:
Click to expand...
Proposed changes in 3.8.5:

Pendor_Lancer
Riding 5->7
Great_Lance (dmg:21->22, speed:55->80)
Silvered_Longsword

Pendor_Light_Lancer
Riding 5->7
Lance
Steel_Sword

Autocalc in the open field battle, attack-defence, (before):
Sarleon_Knight______________328-76
Pendor_Light_Lancer_________154-49____(152-49)
Pendor_Lancer______________182-57____(116-57)
Pendor_Mtd._Man-at-Arms_____244-57
Click to expand...
Awesome, thanks a million in advance, you're the best! :party:
Btw, I guess you meant "Riding 7->5" in the case of Pendor Light Lancer, so basically to swap the riding skills of the two units (5<->7), right? :smile:
Click to expand...
No, both will units will be 7 - for some mysterious reasons I can't reduce PLL riding skill to 5.
This is what I will propose to other devs to review - nothing decided yet.

Edit: Rearranged inventory of both Lancers and was able to get max 45-55% spawn with lance+sword, the rest only with sword. Final autocalc values
Pendor_Light_Lancer_________161-49____(152-49)
Pendor_Lancer______________208-57____(116-57)
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "only with sword"? No lances? The... Lancers?
Click to expand...
Due to Warband's " hard to predict" equipment system, there is no easy way to guarantee lances and side weapons (check Testing Grounds). Without backup swords:
- Lancers attaks are ineffective, even look tragic: form line, charge, create small groups, 20% lancers hit someone, stuck in a blob, poke enemies with long lance, die,
- very low autocalc values due to lances low DMG and speed.

Try to rearrange lancers equipment yourself, maybe you will find a way to have more than 50% solders with both weapons (share it please).
Click to expand...
I forgot about lances not being guaranteed when giving sidearms to troops :sad:. But a lancer having a sidearm is still a top priority imo for functionality and survivability, otherwise he is toast when surrounded or stopped (on a horse). And as Lord-Latis mentioned it, there are units like the Barclay and Melitine Lancers, who do not always use lances, despite their name. And it is fine, I mean it's still better than having 100% lances but nothing more for close quarters.

I'll try to do some tests with Pendor Lancers equipment, to see how I can improve their chances to equip lances. I know that in native Warband, I tried to do a female-only playthrough, but I had to nerf Sword Sisters a bit to make them able to hold their own against other Heavy Cavalry, and to be able to pack a punch with crossbows in sieges as well. By giving them the 5 type of crossbows twice (10 crossbows in inventory total) I could make around 80% of them to always pack crossbows, despite not being guaranteed with ranged weapons. The same with helmets, a good selection of 12 variants were enough to make them cover their head in the majority of cases :fruity:

Edit/Update: Warband is strange beyond words :roll:. Even with 12 lances, 2 copy of each (24 lances in total), I couldn't surpass 50% of Pendor Lancers having both weapons. In fact, the best I could get was 24 out of 50 units, who had a lance as well. For an unknown reason, no matter how much more lances I added, the upper limit remained ~50% of lancers wielding both a sword and a lance (sword was always guaranteed ofc). I won't post any more results, since it's needless, as I couldn't find anything more compared to what Konrad already mentioned. Hilariously enough, in theory, I could get more than half of my Pendor Lancers wield a lance as well, as I added Tournament and Blunt Tip Lances as well to their inventory. I tried to force those few (6-8 out of 50) to take out their "hidden" blunt lances by ordering everyone to use blunts, but as soon as I reapplied the "use weapons at will" order to make the other lancers draw their lances as well, those few pulled back their blunt lances, so it was 24 out of 50 once again! :shock: Maybe there is a formula working in the background that won't let that 50% threshold be surpassed or I don't know...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, may I suggest to untie the noldor recruitment system from Qualis Gems, and change the costs to something else? After I finished my very first playthrough of PoP (like 6 years ago), I realised that it's not worth to spend Qualis Gems on Noldor units, since all of them will die eventually, no matter how hard you try to keep them alive. And since then, I didn't bother much with noldor units. Stats and weapons bought on Qualises are permanent (if you don't get looted), while Noldor units are also a goner every time you are defeated... :???: And just a couple of Noldor units for an expensive Qualis Gem? I have a feeling that only a few starter players tend to hire noldors as is, who haven't realised this just yet. So, what about connecting the Noldor recruitment process to prestige points and honor, like in the case of KO units (probably for a bit higher costs)? To make the recruitment of Noldors a bit more worthwhile :grin: Or if you disagree, then maybe increase the number of Noldors we can hire for a Gem like 2 times or more.
 
You can always get Noldor Twilight Knights and Rangers via betting with a guildmaster. By save-scumming, you can do it twice in a game without losing a gem.
 
Serazu said:
You can always get Noldor Twilight Knights and Rangers via betting with a guildmaster. By save-scumming, you can do it twice in a game without losing a gem.
Click to expand...
Yes, I used to do that as well, but it felt cheaty as hell to save-scum two group of Noldor units for free. I could just edit them into my party, and I would have been at the same scenario. There's no way that I would risk a Qualis Gem upon playing normally, as the chances to get Noldor units from the gamble are very low to my liking :???:

The rare option to buy a Noldor Ranger for 1000d from Ransom brokers is good, but it's too rare to rely on (and it should remain that way, otherwise it will lose the flavor). I suppose the event-triggered Noldor Hunters that can be recruited from prisoners are still in the game, right?
 
I agree that right now it is much more worthwhile to invest Qualis gems even in companion skills, than in Noldors, which tend to die a lot in mixed armies and only in decent numbers they can just pulverize enemy before he can do anything. Actually I used qualis gem on get NTKs only once and was terribly dissapointed, after couple of them just caught a lance in the face in a fight with Sarleon and there my gem was just gone. Companions on the other hand can train your uber-CKHO that with some  patience and time and a lot of money can actually surpass noldor units. And after you amass a good squad of CKHO they tear everything apart even with 300-400 profs and not 600 like NTK has, just by sheer numbers and quality equipment. So right now I don't see much sense in noldor hiring system.

I am not sure how to balance hiring noldors without gems though. Even for double or triple prestige cost of knights it can be abused early in vassal stage of the game. And later in kingdom stage I'd rather use prestige to get my upgradeable CKHO honestly. It should probably be tied to honor rating - since Noldors value honor and loyalty greatly. Something like a cap - how many noldor units you can hire and have in your party depending on your honor value and noldor relations too. So that you never can have more than a small to medium group of them, but you can get them to support your cause easier.

But current hiring for gems is definitely atrocious. If you want to feel badass raping machine you can just befriend them, kite Maltise or Jatu into them couple o times and join - you can command whole friggin army of elves and watch them rain death and destruction without any gems, money, prestige and all.
 
k0nr@d said:
@homohobo This option is already in the game (minus CKO, KO) - it is called Snake Stronghold.
Click to expand...

Well, not really. :???:
Once you manage to capture the Snake Stronghold:
You can stay there, and restock supplies, which is a Good Thing(tm). :wink:
You can have the constable send out up to 3 order patrols, also a Good Thing(tm) :smile:
You can have armor upgraded, which is a Better Thing(tm). :mrgreen:
But ... you can't add or remove garrison troops. :meh:
So, the order stronghold is more of a glorified village. :roll:
It's entirely possible there's some trigger make the stronghold like a normal castle, but I've yet to find it.
 
OldGreyBeard said:
It's entirely possible there's some trigger make the stronghold like a normal castle, but I've yet to find it.
Click to expand...

Well yes, it is in fact quite easy to add an option to manage the garrison of the Order Stronghold, as shown by some minutes of tweaking:
meddling with my tweak-save
lToUG6R.jpg

2F8yJEl.jpg

But given the initial garrison of the order stronghold, this would be quite OP, wouldn't it? Additionally, this could be exploited since you don't pay wages for troops at the order stronghold.
 
BananaFruit said:
OldGreyBeard said:
It's entirely possible there's some trigger make the stronghold like a normal castle, but I've yet to find it.
Click to expand...

Well yes, it is in fact quite easy to add an option to manage the garrison of the Order Stronghold, as shown by some minutes of tweaking:
meddling with my tweak-save
lToUG6R.jpg

2F8yJEl.jpg

But given the initial garrison of the order stronghold, this would be quite OP, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Hmm, care to share how to do it with us (probably at the tweaking thread)? :mrgreen: This would be fun for a change :razz: Although it's OP for sure, as it can't get attacked additionally. But who knows, if I would like to collect troops for fun once, this could be a solution to cut down some wages (beside playing as a female and abuse the husband's garrison)
 
BananaFruit said:
OldGreyBeard said:
It's entirely possible there's some trigger make the stronghold like a normal castle, but I've yet to find it.
Click to expand...

Well yes, it is in fact quite easy to add an option to manage the garrison of the Order Stronghold, as shown by some minutes of tweaking:

But given the initial garrison of the order stronghold, this would be quite OP, wouldn't it? Additionally, this could be exploited since you don't pay wages for troops at the order stronghold.
Click to expand...
Yeah, tweaking would work. I'm too lazy, though. :meh:
While changing the Order Stronghold would give one access to a rather OP troop reserve, I honestly considered it more for dumping troops.
While it's outrageously expensive to keep them paid and happy, doing bounty / renown quests gives one access to a surprisingly large pool of order troops. :wink:

For those playthroughs where one wants to avoid breaking vows of fealty to one of the pretenders ... I mean "kings" :oops:, it would be nice to have the ability to build(?) a "secret camp" in which one could dump extra(?) troops against the coming power play to restore Pendor to her ancient glory. :cool:

Now that I think about it, there should be an honor hit anytime one breaks away from one of those "kings". :razz:
 
Is there ever a chance for the Demonplate Armor to be lootable (*not tagged as unique)? We can already loot and wear Demon Chargers, Demonskin, Netherworld shields, all sorts of heretic shields and armors, Strange Ebony Sabers and Netherworld Chargers for example, but not Demonplate Armor... :sad: May I ask why was it's STR requirement decreased from 73 to 39 if not to make it wearable for the player? :grin:

I know, it has a bit OP stats (75/37 armor), but also, it can be only looted from Demonic Magni, Fallen Revenants and Eyegrim the Devourer  afaik, and all of those can be only part of huge heretic armies. Since loot tends to be crap after big battles, the chances to get one will be very low, and even the acquired one will be a rusty or a battered one for sure. Even to wear and be able to repair it at Alexios, the player will have to achieve 39 STR first, which is not an easy feat before the end-game anyway (when it won't matter much anymore as the player will have access to Noldor gear, will have most of the map conquered, have OP CKO units, etc.)
 
Gorvex said:
Is there ever a chance for the Demonplate Armor to be lootable (*not tagged as unique)?
Click to expand...
Items with the unique flag can't be looted, as is described here.
However if you manually remove the unique flag, it is indeed lootable albeit with a very slim chance since its cost is quite high (which also affects the chance to be looted, again explained here).

On a related note I always disliked the way the looting script works, or rather its mysteriousness i.e. not knowing exactly how it works, so I once wrote a custom looting script to replace the native one. Basically, it takes into account your party's looting skill as well as the number of enemies of the defeated party, which increases chance and quality of loot. Here's an example of the script's results after having defeated a heretic army:
dEsDblx.jpg
mhKSMfz.jpg

Realizing it is quite OP, i reverted back to the original looting script for serious playthroughs. :mrgreen:
 
@BananaFruit: LOL :mrgreen: :party: :grin: That new looting system would be way too OP indeed :lol: But maybe if you would add a divider to the amount, it would be just fine :smile:

Is there ever a chance for the Demonplate Armor to be lootable (*not tagged as unique)?
Click to expand...
As for this, I meant to suggest to remove the "unique" flag for Demonplate Armor, to make it lootable, so it wasn't a question about asking if it is lootable as is. I know that unique items can't be looted :grin: I made it lootable in 3.7063 to see how it would affect the loot, and all I could get with a looting skill of 10+4 was a single rusty one after beating 5 heretic armies and 1 Eyegrim the Devourer in a row :???:

P.S.: Have you tried to make contact with the devs about your tweaking and coding skills? Maybe they could use a hand, given your talent shown in recent posts :fruity: That is, if you are interested and have some spare time :smile:
 
BananaFruit said:
Gorvex said:
Is there ever a chance for the Demonplate Armor to be lootable (*not tagged as unique)?
Click to expand...
Items with the unique flag can't be looted, as is described here.
However if you manually remove the unique flag, it is indeed lootable albeit with a very slim chance since its cost is quite high (which also affects the chance to be looted, again explained here).

On a related note I always disliked the way the looting script works, or rather its mysteriousness i.e. not knowing exactly how it works, so I once wrote a custom looting script to replace the native one. Basically, it takes into account your party's looting skill as well as the number of enemies of the defeated party, which increases chance and quality of loot. Here's an example of the script's results after having defeated a heretic army:
dEsDblx.jpg
mhKSMfz.jpg

Realizing it is quite OP, i reverted back to the original looting script for serious playthroughs. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

lol

The RBS is the... 18th item in the loot screen.

The moment I pressed the spoiler tag to see the image, my monitor reeked of cheese.
 
Actually the only problem with looting system is nontransparent mechanics when you can get worse loot for fighting enemy with less troops. It should be always better if you defeated enemy with less powerful army IMO. This is simply illogical and frustrating when you're trying to be better and "rewarded" with worse loot for your efforts.
 
What i would like to see in the game would be to be able to build castles pretty much from scratch. like with walls of different sizes and different size pre-made towers ect ect.  it wouldnt be the easiest thing to mod im sure if even possible at all, BUT would still be cool.
 
BananaFruit said:
Gorvex said:
Is there ever a chance for the Demonplate Armor to be lootable (*not tagged as unique)?
Click to expand...
Items with the unique flag can't be looted, as is described here.
However if you manually remove the unique flag, it is indeed lootable albeit with a very slim chance since its cost is quite high (which also affects the chance to be looted, again explained here).

On a related note I always disliked the way the looting script works, or rather its mysteriousness i.e. not knowing exactly how it works, so I once wrote a custom looting script to replace the native one. Basically, it takes into account your party's looting skill as well as the number of enemies of the defeated party, which increases chance and quality of loot. Here's an example of the script's results after having defeated a heretic army:
dEsDblx.jpg
mhKSMfz.jpg

Realizing it is quite OP, i reverted back to the original looting script for serious playthroughs. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Did anyone else notice that he didn't manage to get any qualis gems? Something seems fishy...
 
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