Love the old west ..a few questions

First let me say this is lots of fun and I've enjoyed it to no end. But I've wondered why 'long guns' are so deadly in the hands of anyone wielding them. Pistols seem about right though. Why do you start with so much long gun skill? And finally, since when did stage coaches carry armies? Stage robbers often consisted of one man but now they all see to be the 'war wagon'? Oh and another final question: whose vision of the american west is being used? Authentic or Sergio Leone?

Now after playing this mod for a few hours and using a modding tool I understand some of the problems I was running into. Just sloppy modding. Now I don't mean that as a sleight to all the hard work obviously put into it but more just to say that putting the mod together is probably more fun than the tweaking and balancing. And how many would even notice the problems unless you are like me (a big old west historical fan). I see now why the stage coaches were so heavily armed considering the fortune in gold and other loot they were carrying. Still, I have to chuckle when I see cochise traveling via a settler's covered wagon. And the plethora of odd weapons (and probably quite rare even in 1866) and heavily armed citizens from settlers too miners.

I love the artwork and the general feel of the game though and congratulate all those who worked so hard at putting it together. Just a few hours of tweaking has improved the mod for me and I barely know what I'm doing. Now if I could just stop everyone from prostitutes to looters from taking me prisoner.....

jeddakus said:

Now after playing this mod for a few hours and using a modding tool I understand some of the problems I was running into. Just sloppy modding. Now I don't mean that as a sleight to all the hard work obviously put into it but more just to say that putting the mod together is probably more fun than the tweaking and balancing. And how many would even notice the problems unless you are like me (a big old west historical fan). I see now why the stage coaches were so heavily armed considering the fortune in gold and other loot they were carrying. Still, I have to chuckle when I see cochise traveling via a settler's covered wagon. And the plethora of odd weapons (and probably quite rare even in 1866) and heavily armed citizens from settlers too miners.

I love the artwork and the general feel of the game though and congratulate all those who worked so hard at putting it together. Just a few hours of tweaking has improved the mod for me and I barely know what I'm doing. Now if I could just stop everyone from prostitutes to looters from taking me prisoner.....

Click to expand...

i know i wouldn't mind being taken prisoner by a prostitute  

but what do you mean about the heavily armed citizens-miners?  back in those days almost everyone carried a gun or some kind of weapon; there were still wild indians about, not to mention feral coyotes, bears, mountain lions, and rattlers, as well as outlaws.

i know some people want to paint the Old West as one big shootout where everyone wore twin tied-down guns and drew down on someone at least once a week; then you have the "historical" revisionists(AKA political revisionists) who say that no one but the law carried guns. 

the reality is, that while shootings weren't unheard of(especially drunken ones), duels between famous gunfighters weren't all that common.  almost everyone carried or owned a gun, and with no damn ATF to scrutinize your every move you were free to buy, carry, or make any kind of weapon you wanted.

I agree that most folks outside of towns would of carried some kind of protection (you know for those prostitute attacks..hehe) but not the arsenal's portrayed in the module. And even if they were I doubt many were actually proficient with their weapons because that took time, lots of experience and ammo wasn't cheap. Not to mention that most guns are heavy and a pain to haul around.

In any town of decent size guns were restricted and if carried were hidden away. Famous historical figures probably resorted to physical activities with their fists, or whatever was handy and most gamblers would carry knives (or hidden guns if they could get away with). Cowboys tend to carry a gun out of necessity but often the gun was rusted and unusable and if they did use them they weren't very good with them.

The only folks that were deadly killers were folks up to no good and lawmen but that didn't mean they were good with their guns. Ammo was hard to come by and most didn't waste it practicing. It was more the "willingness to kill' that mattered and any tool will do even if it takes 20 whacks with a club.

I just think the carrying of weapons is way over exaggerated in history and in this module. But don't get me wrong here, I know it's a game and it has to be fun. It just doesn't have to be so heavily slanted towards the fantasy world.

jeddakus said:

I agree that most folks outside of towns would of carried some kind of protection (you know for those prostitute attacks..hehe) but not the arsenal's portrayed in the module. And even if they were I doubt many were actually proficient with their weapons because that took time, lots of experience and ammo wasn't cheap. Not to mention that most guns are heavy and a pain to haul around.

In any town of decent size guns were restricted and if carried were hidden away. Famous historical figures probably resorted to physical activities with their fists, or whatever was handy and most gamblers would carry knives (or hidden guns if they could get away with). Cowboys tend to carry a gun out of necessity but often the gun was rusted and unusable and if they did use them they weren't very good with them.

The only folks that were deadly killers were folks up to no good and lawmen but that didn't mean they were good with their guns. Ammo was hard to come by and most didn't waste it practicing. It was more the "willingness to kill' that mattered and any tool will do even if it takes 20 whacks with a club.

I just think the carrying of weapons is way over exaggerated in history and in this module. But don't get me wrong here, I know it's a game and it has to be fun. It just doesn't have to be so heavily slanted towards the fantasy world.

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i take it you don't have a degree in U.S. History?

Well, all that was said up above is basically correct.
Best compliments on how it was described.
I love Old west as well and I used to write even articles on an italin famous site
http://www.farwest.it/

But pls consider the huge difference between the period BEFORE, during... and AFTER the American Civil War. 

It was a "crescendo" of violence and number of people that got VERY skilled with firearms and any way to kill another person. ACW was the conflict that made the biggest number of capable Firearms Fighters in history.....more than WW2 and Vietnam or whatever other war....due mostly to the open and wild frontier that protected most of those who would choose to still use the violence in their lives.

Old West, as they said, was much more CALM and annoying...but even extremely more VIOLENT, than any movie can ever describe....

All this, though, cannot always be shown in an historical way, due to the game structure limits...and, as you guys said, also to allow ppl have more fun. 

The last thing that I want to point out is that during and after the CW, a HUGE quantity of any kind of firearms was around and used, more often robbed than bought, but not so often was last models, that s for sure.
And in 1860s (1860-69) revolvers had almost all still Capslocks mechanisms and not metallic ammos.
The thousands of Partisans had many loaded guns on them (like Clint has in my Signature  ) cuz the missfire were still frequent and the medium time to reload them was like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5vOndeFwM
.....I myself did not know about the fat at the end of the shooting chambers....
Jeees....would all that take for ever....

And therefore, umidity, rain, cold etc etc made ppl use often FLAP holsters, still....like in the army.
Eventually they d cut part or the whole flap ....and have a faster drawing, then.....but most NORMAL ppl would care more to keep the gun protected and safe in an uncomfortable holster, than having it in a fast drawing position....but always at risk of ...loosing it when jumping or galopping...
I made myself a "Partisan" quick draw holster, in the old way they used to do:
get a thick skin, wet it in hot water and then put it around your revolver (I have a perfect NOT shooting colt Navy 1851), nail it on a wooden table, let it dry. Cut the part that exceeds and fix the holster on the belt (before the 70s almost NOBODY had belts with ammos like you see in movies, they just were plain thick belts)
Most of ppl had a Cross drawing at that time....or reverse Cavalry drawing....very few found safe the right side drawing.
The Slim Jim kind was the most used, in the 60s
http://www.farwest.it/?p=1754

See how good 1866 devs made it? 
But is on the side of the fighter....
still, I cannot move it well enough in my 1860s Mod, in a more historical position...but I will make it, promised! 

....and almost all ppl had the chamber of explosion empty where the hammer was, when in the holster....cuz happened frequently that hitting it by accident, would make the hammer to ...shoot your foot.
So basically, if you had a 6 shooter....you d load only 5 chambers in the revolver. 

About the game, Jaddakus, guns' are so deadly in the hands of anyone cuz there is a hidden value when modding gun skills, that sometimes is not balanced.
Is the SHOT SPEED and rapresents the RANGE the weapon can reach, before the ammo starts to fall and be less precise.
So even if you set Accuracy to 100, but SHOT SPEED to 50, lets say, you will not get a target far more than 70/80 meters.
Or if your enemy has guns with low accuracy, but shot speed is set up to 120 (like some in 1866) they will nail you from the end of the battlefield, at start of mission!! 
I find the best setting is High Values for all weapons (I will make most all over 80, not shotguns and so, though) but very different shot speeds for every weapon
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,210480.msg5020778.html#msg5020778

Ok, my fingers are sore....but I loved to come out of my Modding torture, for a while...

Gabby
PS: Ciao Hunter! Never seen ya on my Forums anymore....

i dont care if its historically accurate, its the best mod for mount n blade