Very well. I wanted to see more of MaHuD before doing this, as I want to confirm a few things, but since you asked so nicely, and only because of that, I'll answer you.
A little warning though, I doubt you'll like my reason.
I'll be back once I've mined the quotes I'm looking for.
Shatari is his packmate - that is why all he has said is "he is suspicious" and left it at that, and also why MaHuD said "yeah, Xardob has been weird" but jumped on us for what he thought was "testing the waters for Xardob" (distancing while defending).
No, because you like to mix things up every game. But it is a similar concept (Frisian is a wolf, vote: Frisian, let things sit while still saying he is bad, etc.)
(Llandy, a Lurker vote on Wolf was not "defending" him, as I think you put it, in a confused tone; it was Lurker voting a lurker whom I had no noticeable suspicious feeling of.)
Has your opinion about Wolf changed any today, taking into account his Day 2 posts and Moose's interactions with him?
Locke said:
And on reflection, having made that post, both Leprechaun and Phonemelter are two players who have contributed objectively helpful information to the village, in the form of voting records and voting tables. And Llandy I suppose would fit with these three also. If all else fails, at least these three deserve the benefit of the doubt, I think. They are players I would not consider voting to break a no-lynch.
Whilst I don't have a problem with this mindset at the moment, because I know that keeping voting records is something Melter does frequently (or at least has done in every game I've played with him so far), plus my vote tracking is something I initially started for myself and takes me basically no extra effort to share, and I know that it's similar for Leprechaun whose voting table was very useful for yesterday's vote negotiations, I would caution against taking this too far as we move into new days.
Simply because although we don't know for sure what scum we have in this game, popular opinion seems to be leaning towards a converter role, in addition to at least the one wolf pack we know about because of previous narration. And even if you (or the majority) feel that Melter, and Leprechaun, and I, are innocent today, then there's no guarantee of this being the case tomorrow, and I'd hate to see a converted scum get a sort of 'free pass' on the basis of contributing objective data -- even if that scum does turn out in future to be me.
No, because you like to mix things up every game. But it is a similar concept (Frisian is a wolf, vote: Frisian, let things sit while still saying he is bad, etc.)
Sorry about that, could be I missed or overlooked it. You sure you made it lovely green?
In any case, I'm off to bed, won't redo the votecount now. Please do me a favor, and re-post your vote (bold and green) and I'll put it into the next votecount.
@Concerning the Wolf moving to the Tavern: With Snoopy joining, I'm not too worried about it. If we don't vote a lurker then at least two houses will have three people in them. I'm fine with the Wolf being in my house, and if that kills me then we've got something to work with.
If you think it benefits the town then feel free to lynch me (I'm a plain Jane innocent and I've been very distracted here lately), but please remember to present an actual argument in favor of my lynch. It doesn't help the town at all to say 'me too' or to just jump on the bandwagon.
I'm pretty sure there are a couple more quotes like those two, but I can't seem to find them. Anyways, my problem is how Shatari seems very willing to take one for the team, while not actually doing so, playing the good villager and always reminding everyone of the, sometimes rather obvious, actions a villager should take. I'm always wary of anyone who tries to pull this off, but Shatari is a special case among them, because I've seen him doing this twice before. That's really just him building a presence and trying to appear helpful to the village.
I haven't paid close enough attention. Even forgot about the possibility of the converter in my attempt to narrow the margin on lynch candidates... I need sleep. I will say I will try to look closer tomorrow but whether that will happen is anyone's guess. Sweet dreams my lovelies.
My opinion about "The Wolf" is - I admit depending on the first 70 or 80 pages. I have to read it again and closer, but if I remember right mostly people were refering to his lurkiness.
Uh, no. There is basically only things from him in the first 30 pages because he was gone and didn't come back until near the end of the day. People suspected him because of his "stirring the pot" method, stopping of applying heat when he was questioned a bunch, focus on mechanics, speculations that didn't aid the hunt, his vote on Moose (when he reappeared), etc. - it was not because of lurkiness. Sure, that reason was cited a couple of times, but was not the driving factor.
Such a carelessness towards someone, who poses no danger for him or anyone else at all, is odd and suspicious in my eyes. You see: ejnomad has been one night outside AND already got ill. Imagine what would have happened with me?
This is what you said about him before the Xardob vote:
snoopy-91 said:
People I find sometimes odd are Woopin, because I don`t like his agressive way to argument, and the way he responded to my appearance and reacted to the opinions of the others about me. Otherwise I do like the fact that he is willing to stand apparently against everyone else, which is if we analyze it the comprimising the situation of a villager. A villager has no "friends" or someone he really trusts... the same with Llandy. She has been quite in the same situation and she tried to "work" despite every ciriticism on her analyzes.
Yes, you explained thoughts on him, but from the former post, it didn't look like you found him highly scummy. Then you turn around and say "gut feeling" (THE SAME THING YOU ARE CRITICIZING THE WOLF VOTERS FOR) without going further with the justification.
I already explained what comes to my mind, when I read Xardobs posts and it`s not all of the sudden. I started to bring some people up in my earlier postings and intensified my suspicion on certain or other people- depending on the events during the first day.
I'm confused as to what you mean by "I started to bring some people up in my earlier postings," because there was not an indication of the steps you went from being "not sure" about Xardob to "wolf."
Here is what you said about him before the vote:
snoopy-91 said:
Sootshade, Xardob and ejnomad I can`t classify. Well the last two because of their absence (Sorry ejno ).
...Xardob - his contribution is neither me, nor the village helping. His votes/short postings, which can be count on one hand, seem so random to me and I already ask for a little more explanation like other people here as well. Nothing helpful I can find, even if I read back and try to find some hints.
[...]
At least I am really unsure, who might be more suspicious whoopin or Xardob.
You are a great player Xardob and your lack of interest and contribution is striking me really odd. You aren't giving any explanations that would help to understand your wolf hunting, nor anything else you write. It's always a posting of saying "x,Y, and Z are for 99% wolves. You have to trust me and vote them". For my taste a little bit too much self-confidence.
Therefore I for now place my first vote: Xardob, with whoopin right behind as the second candidate. Maybe the fact that the "race" in my eyes will be between whoopin, the wolf and Eternal and your suggestion of lynching Shatari, who probably by now won't have the amount of needed votes, is kind of a leading away from a possible lynch. I know you won't prefer a no-lynch, but why do you offer a completely different person into discussion without much information/hints, if it's so unlikely. It's weird...
It's leading away from whoopin and Co... If a packie would do this that obvious, I don't know. You seem so used to this game to do something that obvious, but it's weird to me.
Early on you said you liked what Xardob was posting, but he hadn't changed a thing since then - he was never being overly helpful. You go from "I like him" to "Not sure" to (in the next post) "He is a wolf." What also confuses me is that in your reason for voting for him, you say that his suggestion of Shatari seemed like he was trying to move the voting away from Whoopin, Wolf, and Eternal, but you were voting for a person with no votes that maybe only one or two others would have followed you on - the exact thing you accuse him of!
It all feels strange to me, especially since you realized we needed a lynch, but didn't vote for someone who was likely to be lynched.
By the way, I don't think you answered this:
Phonemelter said:
Snoopy, in your post analyzing Moose's LoS, you left off Wolf as someone Moose put down as innocent - I kind of find it hard to believe you would miss that, considering it seems you put time into the analysis. Locke will probably call me nitpicky for this, but if we were to consider you, Wolf, and Moose to be part of a pack, it would make sense to "accidentally" leave out Wolf from the analysis as a subtle attempt to protect him (both you and Moose considered him innocent too, oddly enough). How would you change your analysis if you were to go back and include Moose considering Wolf innocent?
Okay, hear me out -- it really doesn't make too much sense for the wolves to infect Seff, because he was such a good choice for the pillory, so we would probably do the wolves job for them and just have him freeze to death, and Seff probably wouldn't have a big problem with it because he doesn't really want to play.
Or he was infected because he wasn't completely lurking and had been reading up (iirc), since and enough people bought into his claim of hatred for the game, infecting a person what would be hard to lynch would potentially be a good idea (while getting rid of the more immediate threat of Soot, if they are from the same pack).
My conclusion is that the most sensible reason the wolves would waste the infection on Seff is because Seff is a bad guy, and their plot is to get him cured and make him look all trustworthy. Isn't it convenient that when Seff is infected he comes in and starts playing the game again, and searching for the cure?
But nobody is certain on the amount of packs there are or how the curing works, so there is no reason for anyone to assume the infection implies wolfishness or innocence. If you are so convinced this is was a wolf move, why not vote for him?
Well, it's not the strongest case in the world, but it's more than you said about Moose. And as promised, here's the things I found iffy upon reflection.
Shatari said:
Pharaoh X Llandy said:
Locke said:
A final note is that she has seemed hyper-actively defensive, which can happen to a wolf.
I honestly don't think you were being hyper defensive, so much as you were the subject of interest for several pages. People wanted you to address the topic, and you did. I still don't think your reasoning is well thought out, but I personally don't think it's wolfy.
Shatari - I think that Eternal's "helpful explainer!" comment captures my thoughts somewhat, but I also suppose that the reason behind it (commenting on the No Lynch) is something that others are guilty of as well. Also, I don't know much about who he suspects. I think he is Too Close to Call
I'm leaning towards Llandy (because of her latest posts, up to the point of this reply), Moss (because I automatically distrust anyone who speaks in favor of a No Lynch), and Twinkle (because he's very keen to protect Llandy, while claiming that packmates will openly look out for their own).
Eh? Moss is number 2 on my major suspect list, second only to 'sort of but not quite; roleclaiming Llandy. I think it's too early to vote just yet, as I don't have a feel for everyone yet, but I don't think the town would lose much if we lynch either of them.
Note the timestamps of these four posts. First Shatari thinks my reasoning/defensiveness is not wolfy. Thirty minutes later he's leaning towards me being suspicious. Four hours later he's strongly leaning towards me being a wolf. Less than 18 hours later and he doesn't think the town will lose much if they lynch me (or Moss).
On the subject of following me into my room/me wanting to be in my own room for Theory-testing/me inviting Snoopy into the Mansion with me yesterday:
Shatari said:
Shatari said:
I would cut you so much more slack if I saw any way this could be seen as beneficial for the town. I can still see you being a potential innocent who's just trying to lure the wolves into attacking you, but given the nature of the buildings I doubt any wolf is going to be so brazen.
I'm personally in favor of someone being in a room with you. If nobody else has the guts then I'll do it myself. I'm more than willing to call your bluff.
Well, I'll tell you what. I'm willing to let you put your money where your mouth is, conditional that you don't try and hog a room to yourself. I'll happily risk being in a room with you, and I'm dead by morning then you'll be an easy lynch for tomorrow.
If she's going to die, and it's too risky for the healer to be with her, then she can come stay with me in my Mansion room. I'm not afraid she might infect me, even if others are, and since she'll likely die anyway I'm much less concerned about the consequences of my crazy hunches being wrong.
That would be acceptable (and an alternative to me coming over there), as that way you wouldn't be hogging a room all to yourself and it would tell us if it's contagious (which I doubt it is).
Snoopy can come stay in my house, it's fine, I'm happy with that. If you're innocent, I'd discourage you from joining us. But I won't try to stop you. That's all I'll say on the matter.
I've already said that if Snoopy goes for that then it alleviates my concerns on that matter, but I'll say it again since you must have missed it. It's a bit cold to risk Snoopy when I think you're likely a wolf, but if she wants to swap with me then I'd be up for it.
Kicks off by saying that no wolf would be brazen enough to follow me into the Mansion, immediately says he's willing to call my bluff by following me in, reiterates that he's willing to let me 'put my money where my mouth is' as long as I don't room alone and again offers himself if nobody else volunteers, then accepts Snoopy in his place and says it's an alternative to him following me. Very next post, says it's "a bit cold to risk Snoopy" because he thinks I'm likely a wolf, but will do it anyway. Overestimates the danger to Snoopy as what kind of stupid wolf would waste a night-kill on a player who will be dead in 2 days if they don't find a cure?
On speculation/"room destruction":
Shatari said:
Pharaoh X Llandy said:
So... what are you thinking here? That I'm some sort of scum who has an ability that can... only be used in an empty room?
Given that the mill is crossed out on the map and the nature of this set up in general, I do have strong reason to believe that we have at least one villain who removes rooms from play.
Foul the room your in, bluff us into putting you on watch to try and disable you (reverse psychology and all that), use some ability or another, the possibilities are limited only by Adaham's creativity. What do you think the wolves will do to you if you're alone?
Of course it’s a little specific. I overthink EVERYTHING. But I consider my anal-retentive attention to detail to be a good thing. I’m not good at reading people. My gut feelings influence me more than my head. But I am good at reading narrators and authors, and people who create things, because I totally get them. If I was Adaham, then if I put items in the game, I would also put a thief in the game.
If that's your schtick then fine, but I don't see the point in telling people to jump at shadows. I've been in games where the villains had a character immune to anything other than lynch kills, games where they had evil blockers, and games where converters ignored special defenses. If someone does steal the knife from him and actually uses it then we'd have someone to lynch. If he stays in a location where multiple characters are then we limit the options for the wolves.
I'm not interested in living to see the end of the game. I'm interested seeing wolves exposed. Given the room mechanic, I don't think this will be too difficult if we can keep people from ruining the rooms or forcing too many people into one place.
Thinks me speculating about a thief role, and my general speculation, is "telling people to jump at shadows" then speculates (accurately) about a villain who removes rooms from play a full three days before this actually happened. Twice mentions the potential of me "fouling" the room I am in as reasons for me wanting to be on my own.
Shatari said:
Pharaoh X Llandy said:
A lot of the questions you've asked I cannot answer. I've specifically said at least twice that my theories are crazy and I need certain things to happen, and they won't happen if the wolves know what those things are. So you trying to draw me out into further arguments and to reveal my plans is kinda detrimental.
So in the space of 2 days he went from "Llandy not wolfy" to "leaning towards Llandy" to "strongly leaning towards Llandy" to "Llandy is my #1 and the village would lost little by lynching her" followed by further pressing me for explanations of my theories, followed immediately by not willing to lynch me despite me previously being his #1 and highly suspicious, so he can see how my theories work out. Which they don't, because 2 days after this my room was locked. I expected him to resume his case on me after this, because now that my theory was untestable (the only reason so far he's provided for not lynching me yet) he has no real reason to hold back.
Instead, he says:
Shatari said:
The fact that Llandy correctly named a villain role and was in the location where the villain struck would be a serious red flag were it not for the fact that Llandy isn't stupid (since this will inevitably end in her getting scanned by a seer). As it is, I'm thinking it's a coincidence combined with a deliberate frame up job against her. I'm not convinced that she's innocent because of it, but I don't think she's on the same team as the thief.
Possible pre-emptive defense due to his own accurate pegging of "room-closing villain"? Also no longer thinks I am the thief, after previously saying this:
Shatari said:
Pharaoh X Llandy said:
I don't know either. Probably your best bet is to be the last to enter a room before deadline, so that if there's a thief he can't follow you.
Also disturbing is that you're absolutely convinced that there's a thief in the game. Combined with your desire to use a night ability, I'm fairly convinced that you're the alleged thief.
And finally, a complete back-pedal on his reason for not voting for me:
Shatari said:
Also, I suppose I should undo my joke vote. (I tend to avoid moving my vote until I've got a suitable person to vote on. I didn't vote on Llandy, because I wasn't convinced that Llandy was a wolf and I wanted to probe her before I committed. I'll get around to putting a real vote down as soon as I've had time to do some proper wolf hunting (I've only skimmed since my most last serious reply), but my current two suspects are Wolf (for special hunting) and Moss (for his no-lynch).) Unvote Lynch.
Again, this is somewhat reminiscent of Moose's play, when I started questioning him. And when I advised Moose to switch his vote to me if he couldn't provide a proper case for Seff, he backed right off. Shatari also backs off, but changes his reason for why he didn't vote me earlier, stating he wasn't convinced I was a wolf after seeming pretty convinced I was a wolf, and he didn't vote me because he wanted to probe me further whilst previously saying that he wanted to give me a chance to see how my theory panned out overnight.
Wolf replaces me at the top of Shatari's suspect list.
Now, I suppose I could be jumping at shadows with all of this, and possibly biased because I feel that a lot of his 'suspicious' behaviour is centred around attention I generated and minor quote-wars I was involved in. After Shatari first asked to be replaced and said he was an innocent, I took him at face value because I like to think that someone who has a relative on their death bed has bigger things to worry about than lying to protect their role in a game which is unimportant by comparison, and I do think (or at least, hope) that Shatari has more integrity than that. However, looking back at his posts, in particular the ones above, I wanted some feedback from others about what they think of his play, whether it seems suspicious or whether it seems natural given the long, heated and often controversial nature of my theory-planning on Day 1.
Llandy, that was an interesting read. I can see that being true. To be honest, I could provide a few more reasons why Shatari was wolfish. His posts are very suitable to unfavorable interpretation. That's why I want to see a little more of MaHuD before making a final decision. He has a more direct playstyle, and I think that makes for an easier read.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
But it is a similar concept (Frisian is a wolf, vote: Frisian, let things sit while still saying he is bad, etc.)
