PREVIOUS EVENT: Battle of Sulcoit (8/12/13)

[Druidewijn]

At one point you could scroll down and see an entire page of people only on the Norðmenn team, I believe Liudulf even counted around 25 - 30 more Víkingar than Gaels. That should say enough about the imbalance.

MAGLORG!

 

[hrotha]

At one point you could scroll down and see an entire page of people only on the Norðmenn team, I believe Liudulf even counted around 25 - 30 more Víkingar than Gaels. That should say enough about the imbalance.

Yeah, but that was only in the final Siege round, I think, and by that point the event was officially finished. We were slightly outnumbered during the rest of the event, but not enough to make much of a difference in theory.

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

@Hrotha; My post was not explicitly aimed at you with regards to sour grapes. I find that you're by and large the most reasonable member of this community in every regard.

I don't think it is reasonable to make any 'estimation' of the present hosts in an event. There are far too many variables to be weighed, measured and controlled when individual groups of players are placed under the magnifying glass. Distributing groups accorded to 'strength of the sword-arm' would be just as quick a path to uneven sides as simply equalising by numbers and by an absolute rough estimation of power. The same disparity in strength would appear if a single host dropped out, or turned out with less-than anticipated numbers, when an event is based upon distribution rather than numbers. Often, I think the kingpin to the structure of a host revolves around the core public players and the way they are led. RalliX and the Kings' Guard did an absolutely fantastic job of organising (through TeamSpeak!) the individual components.

Aye, I think the Goídil are too cool to just sideline them like that. But making sure they have a numerical advantage in future events might even things out satisfactorily. That could be a good practical lesson to draw from Sulcoit for any future events that feature the Goídil.

I do believe the latest fix made the Goídil more balanced, as it brought their amour more in line with that of the other factions and it gave the ceithernaig some swords to spend their money on (not to mention the boost to their secret weapon, the MAGLORG!). But ultimately I think their main disadvantage is the difficulty of making good and carefully aimed birín throws in large events compared to casual play.

I agree with both of you on the points of the Goídil strength (factional, rather than players) though. Time perhaps for an alternative set of factions for the next historical? (Rus - Norðmenn would be fantasic!) I tend to find the Goídil to be quite bland; they wear potato sacks and throw sticks, there's not much else going for them really - sorely wish they had more attention on development.

At one point you could scroll down and see an entire page of people only on the Norðmenn team, I believe Liudulf even counted around 25 - 30 more Víkingar than Gaels. That should say enough about the imbalance.

I don't this this was ever true spare for the second round of siege which, by way of agreement, had already concluded the event. Perhaps you're simply playing on a ridiculously low resolution though?

 

[Druidewijn]

I don't this this was ever true spare for the second round of siege which, by way of agreement, had already concluded the event. Perhaps you're simply playing on a ridiculously low resolution though?

Well, the whole point of simply being outnumbered as Goídil is a vast disadvantage afaik. And my resolution is a quite regular 1920 x 1080.

 

[Celtichugs]

I want a Rus v Norðmenn event so freaking much! A battle where Vikings coming down the Dnieper River fight some Kievian Rus?

Well, the whole point of simply being outnumbered as Goídil is a vast disadvantage afaik. And my resolution is a quite regular 1920 x 1080.

Yes, but our point is that the only time there was any major numerical off-balance was the final round of siege which wasn't even part of the event. 

 

[Orchid]

I kept track of the balance throughout the event (except for the second siege round when I had to go) and the difference was hardly ever above 2 or 3, especially during the conquest round.

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

Well, the whole point of simply being outnumbered as Goídil is a vast disadvantage afaik. And my resolution is a quite regular 1920 x 1080.

Yeah well, you weren't really outnumbered were you? Goídil won the first round of the siege and then, on the second round (by which the event had officially ended), people dropped out. The conquest and battle phases were generally bang on number-wise - a credit to Celtic, Thorkell and Hrotha.

I want a Rus v Norðmenn event so freaking much! A battle where Vikings coming down the Dnieper River fight some Kievian Rus?

Sounds fancy! Maybe some light snow too (and if only we had the wind from Deluge!).

 

[Celtichugs]

Yeah, snow, lots of a trees. A small Slavic/Rus village on the banks of the river... All Hell breaks lose as the Vikings arrive under someone from the Rurik dynasty? I don't know enough Kievian Rus history.

 

[Druidewijn]

Yeah well, you weren't really outnumbered were you? Goídil won the first round of the siege and then, on the second round (by which the event had officially ended), people dropped out. The conquest and battle phases were generally bang on number-wise - a credit to Celtic, Thorkell and Hrotha.

Fair enough I suppose, I thought that during the conquest mode there were also lots more Norðmenn but apparently not.

(A Rus vs. Norðmenn event would be rad!)

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

It might even draw all of the Eastern Europeans out onto the field. 

 

[hrotha]

I distinctly remember at some point during Conquest, probably during the second round, when we were beginning to lose again, there was a whispered conversation that went like "Should we switch a couple of pubbers to the Goídil?" and Celt said that wouldn't be necessary because we were only very slightly outnumbered. I looked and it was 78 vs 72 at that point, so that memory stuck to me, and I believe it illustrates that sheer numbers weren't the issue here. We had roughly the same numbers during the first Siege round, I think. It only became a problem during the final round, but at that point we all felt it was pointless to try to switch hosts around, and not just because it wasn't supposed to be an official part of the event.

So all in all I still believe next time the Goídil are used they're going to need a numerical advantage to make it work perfectly.

 

[Celtichugs]

I distinctly remember at some point during Conquest, probably during the second round, when we were beginning to lose again, there was a whispered conversation that went like "Should we switch a couple of pubbers to the Goídil?" and Celt said that wouldn't be necessary because we were only very slightly outnumbered.

Haha, yeah, I think what I said was "**** that, it's only like 8 people. We'll deal with it." which we did, as I might add the Goídil did alot better the second conquest round than the first, despite being outnumber

 

[Æscwine of Essex]

The balance issue for sure didnt fall into the numerical category but that of skill balance. Agreed its hard to work with skill balance and sure swapping around people will probably cause some upset. However Éadríc did make a very valid point when he said most of our veteran clans are viking clans and therefore naturally will sign up for the viking side. But anyway yes its hard to manage and perhaps cant be managed but its still a valid observation that should be noted for consideration of future events.

And indeed an event with the rus faction would be refreshing.

 

[KickingJoub]

Well, even if I happen to be viking both in clan and location (even if Finns were never called vikings grrr) I'd be happy to try my hand at leading the goidil. By no means am I saying that they were poorly lead at Sulcoit and the "assumed" higher skill level on the nordmen side probably played a big part.(If tactics should go somewhere else do tell me, it just so happens to be one of my favorite subjects )
Disclaimer: This is, on the Goidil part theoretical and on the viking side most likely exaggerated.
So, having had the pleasure of being in the nordmen whisper list and hearing and quite a bit directing what was going on, I have to say I learned a fair deal. A quick breakdown of how the Nordmen were actually lead: Host A left flank, Host B right flank, Pubbers middle, Host C flanking and support duty. Also, there were standing (and ignored) orders to regroup at whatever flag was ours and not being attacked. From there it was ordering one of these to move to attack or defend a flag, or to try and get behind the enemy.

The Fenrisbarn were quite instrumental and took a lot of iniative, something that saved our asses in the second round of conquest. The pubbers and Jomsborg were used as the blunt forces of the team (IE: point them in a direction and watch limbs fly off) which allowed the other hosts to pull off said maneuvers. Haeringar were the dependable front line warriors (not saying pubbers or jomsborg weren't). In battle investment was made to have a strong left flank, while the Jomsborg was on the far right to force a response to them, allowing the strong left to do it's job. Middle was pubbers with Kings guard, mostly there to die in a glorious melee because that's what's fun

How would I lead as Goidil? Avoid those awesome (but deadly) set piece engagements on the enemy's terms. Order the middle to advance, throw birin, lure their middle in, shower with gaesums from the sides, order pubbers to get in, hosts on flanking duty, sneak to flag. It was fairly damn difficult to notice that someone had snuk around us to a flag. That said, I think we rarely ever felt like we weren't orchestrating the engagements on the viking side.

On a player level: gaesums and a long spear, the best melee host as gal goidil to be used like a knife, strike vitals. Also: Sticking together. I remember times when the goidil hosts trickled in bit by bit, making those gaesum volleys impossible. Oh yeah, one last thing: If there's two friendlies and 10 enemies where your pointing gaesums at, sucks to be those two friendlies
Can't say much more about the Goidil side as I wasn't on it.

I'm all for a Rus event though. Also proof reading my posts better.

 

[FrisianDude]

And indeed an event with the rus faction would be refreshing.

It would be, but against whom? At least I get the impression all event-battles have been lore-appropriate, which would put the Rus against the Norðmenn only; and there's few dedicated Rus clans quite the size and skill of the dedicated Wytsing clans.

 

[hrotha]

Very interesting post, Ubbe. Thanks! That's exactly the kind of thing I love reading after events, and it may be very helpful to future leaders.

Liudulf, there's always Rus vs Rus, but regardless, some Norse clans could simply be told to take one for the team and play as Rus and against the Norðmenn. The Hæringar played as English/Haringas at Brunanburh instead of the more natural Norse-Gaelic fit, for example.

(That was done for balance. It later turned out the event was grossly unbalanced in favour of the English. *cough*)

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

Great post Ubbe; our TeamSpeak whispers were certainly very organised and concise - there was rarely a moment where any group were unsure of where they were meant to be. It's also indicative again of groups whom use voice communications on a daily basis; there's absolutely no hesitation in the interpretation of someone's tone or comment, there's trust in the command and a willingness to properly fulfill a commitment rather than gently poking around it.

As for Rus-Rus-Norðmenn, we're happy to fight for either side, whatever the faction. I do think it would be important to severely gimp the archer percentage though for such factions. As the monthly shieldwall events have illuminated, a fair archer is capable of destroying up to a tenth of the enemy forces before any contact has been made.

 

[Celtichugs]

a fair archer is capable of destroying up to a tenth of the enemy forces before any contact has been made.

And by that you mean you, right?

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

No.
I have flashbacks of GANJAMAN when I discuss the terror-article of archery.

 

[Celtichugs]

Haven't seen him in ages! Probably still eating shark and smoking weed, as all Icelanders do.