Old thread (locked)

[Buxton]

Okay, sounds good to me.  It will definitely help each gun feel more individual.

Something else that is gun sound related:
I'm not sure if it is happening now, but in previous revisions one gun could make multiple sounds (that were wildly inconsistent)...and real guns don't vary that wildly.
We definitely want to have the same gun make the same sound each time you fire it. 

Yeah, that's what I didn't like. It's still happening. If we match up the sounds to the guns I can perhaps make slight variations to ease repitiveness.

 

[Highlander]

Buxton, you didn't add the wagon texture.
I noticed you removed the reload sound after the fire of one of the sounds. This was indeed wanted and used for repeating rifles. I quite like it, so I added it back.

It doesn't matter to me if the revolvers have random sounds or if each revolver has only one specific sound. If you want some revolvers have specific sounds, tell me which ones should have which sound and I'll fix that.

 

[Buxton]

Buxton, you didn't add the wagon texture.

Ah, sorry. Fixed now.

I noticed you removed the reload sound after the fire of one of the sounds. This was indeed wanted and used for repeating rifles. I quite like it, so I added it back.

I removed it since If you fire the rifle quickly the sound 'bunches up', perhaps a delay should be put on the rifle - would make the gameplay different too. Otherwise, just move the reload sound forward a bit.

 

[Highlander]

I don't think we should add the Peacemaker either. It looks very good, but we have strictly sticked to historical correct weapons. Maybe sometime later we can make a small mini-mod for those non fitting weapons (including older Winchesters), but I don't think it fits to our concept right now.

I removed it since If you fire the rifle quickly the sound 'bunches up', perhaps a delay should be put on the rifle - would make the gameplay different too. Otherwise, just move the reload sound forward a bit.

Yeah, I'll move it a bit forward.

 

[Buxton]

I don't think we should add the Peacemaker either. It looks very good, but we have strictly sticked to historical correct weapons. Maybe sometime later we can make a small mini-mod for those non fitting weapons (including older Winchesters), but I don't think it fits to our concept right now.

Aye, sounds like a good idea. The gun has helped my texturing skills bucketloads, so that's the most important thing.

 

[Highlander]

By the way: The handle texture looks very nice, do you have a tutorial where you learned to paint that good wood?

 

[Willie_Feo]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,30110.msg806293.html#msg806293

Here's an old post where I reported finding a site with firearms sounds from an old Outlaws game mod site.  I am pretty sure the sounds are public domain.

 

[Buxton]

I think I used loads and mixed where it was useful. I think this one: Wood texture tutorial.

I went through and read all the wood texture tutorials here - http://good-tutorials.com/tutorials/photoshop/textures, plus I used a lot of colour burning (via layers), the fibre tool, and the pattern tool. Hope they help 

 

[Highlander]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,30110.msg806293.html#msg806293

Here's an old post where I reported finding a site with firearms sounds from an old Outlaws game mod site.  I am pretty sure the sounds are public domain.

Thanks.

I think I used loads and mixed where it was useful. I think this one: Wood texture tutorial.

I went through and read all the wood texture tutorials here - http://good-tutorials.com/tutorials/photoshop/textures, plus I used a lot of colour burning (via layers), the fibre tool, and the pattern tool. Hope they help 

Thanks. I'll look into them when I get some more time.

I’ve thought of a nice mission that would highlight the Gatling Gun.  It’s based on the climax of The Wild Bunch. 

You get hired by a Mexican officer to steal a Gatling Gun from a US supply train.  That part would be handled much like the ‘Troublesome Bandits’ mission from Native but with a wagon train added.  The Gatling would be packed away and the US troops would not use it against you. 

After defeating the US cavalry, you get the Gatling as loot.  When you bring it back to the Mexican’s village, he tells you he is not going to pay you.  You have the choice of slinking off like a whipped dog, or going for your guns. 

If you choose to fight, you spawn with a few of your NPC heroes in the middle of the village, like in the ‘Tax Collector’ Native mission, except you and your heroes have all their own equipment.  The Gatling gun is nearby.  The Mexican officer spawns in the village with a very large number of low-level Mexican troops and you have a great time mowing them down with the Gatling.  Hopefully, you will survive, unlike in the movie.

That's a very nice idea. Might use it, so that it's the only way to get to one of the Gatling Guns. I thought I would just make them extremely expensive.
But I'm corrently rather searching for quests that can be played multiple times.

 

[insomniac]

I wonder whether bullets are affected from gravity like the arrows in the native?

And if so, do pistol projectiles drop more than rifle bullets since rifle bullets are 2-3 times faster than pistol's.

 

[Highlander]

I wonder whether bullets are affected from gravity like the arrows in the native?

And if so, do pistol projectiles drop more than rifle bullets since rifle bullets are 2-3 times faster than pistol's.

Yes, bullets are affected by gravity. I made the shot spead for all guns at maximum, to make this affect lower. Rifles have still a lot more range just because they have a much higher accuracy.

 

[Highlander]

A little update: Every town will have two special NPCs. Those are similar to the Guild master and will give you quests or something else. So every town will have two of these servants: Pony Express Rider, Lawman, Rancher, Texas Ranger, Banker.
My corrent quest ideas for each servant are:
Pony Express riders:
-deliver message quests.
Lawmen:
-hunting down outlaws.
Rancher:
-hunt down the Indians that stole the cattle and bring them back.
Texas Ranger:
-Escord important persons.
Banker:
-Ability to rent or invest money.
-Very rare: Hunt down bank robbers.

Suggestions are welcome.

By the way: Are there any more scene builders (ingame editor)? I don't think Morgoth wants to make every 14 towns and the forts himself.
Testers are being recruited as well (for those who don't know, yet).

 

[Buxton]

Did you read that bank quest I suggested a while back?

Also, could you add Starr.dds please?

 

[Highlander]

Yes, but it was quite long ago. I just read it again and I think I'll just use the bank robbery exactly as you suggested. 
But I don't think you should be able to attack the town guards with all your soldiers. Maybe just with your heroes, otherwise it's not really challenging.

Starr.dds is added.

 

[Kitteh]

Just out of curiosity: I've never heard of revolvers without triggers. Might be a stupid question, but how do you fire that thing?

Well, the Starr actually has two triggers - the main trigger pulls back the hammer, and then it presses a tiny little trigger behind it, that releases the hammer and fires it. So, you would just remove the main trigger, and it would behave exactly like a single action, and you'd press the little sear trigger. No revolvers are triggerless, and I think it would require somewhat extensive mechanical work to allow the hammer to release when you pull it back and let go, instead of locking. I know from extensive handling of a replica Remington 1858/1863 that the hammer automatically locks in two positions (halfway back, a safety position, and fully back, ready to fire). The trigger moves forward a lot at the halfway position, and then moves back slightly when the hammer is fully cocked. The trigger is, of course, farthest back when the hammer is up. I think you'd have to redo all the internal gears and springs and stuff to disconnect the trigger from it and allow for firing by releasing the hammer with your hand.

Weapons we would like to see:

-Remington army revolver, model 1863.
-Remington Navy revolver?
-Smith and Wesson 2nd model revolver (1861)

You seem to have revolvers from Colt pretty well covered, but a Colt police, or Colt pocket would be nice.

I already modeled both Remingtons a while ago
The Smith and Wesson, while it would be nice for completeness, is so insanely weak (.32) that there's no gameplay purpose for it.

Oh, I would like to be a tester.

I have a question about the scabbards. How do they work, exactly? Do they use vertex animation? And are the models I sent you enough to get them to work? And for the revolver holster, what models do you need me to give you, and how should they be done? I assume for the vertex animation, I need one like normal with the revolver handle sticking out, and another with that same revolver handle scaled way down inside the holster, so it can't be seen, right? (with the same vertices)

 

[Willie_Feo]

No revolvers are triggerless, and I think it would require somewhat extensive mechanical work to allow the hammer to release when you pull it back and let go, instead of locking. I know from extensive handling of a replica Remington 1858/1863 that the hammer automatically locks in two positions (halfway back, a safety position, and fully back, ready to fire). The trigger moves forward a lot at the halfway position, and then moves back slightly when the hammer is fully cocked. The trigger is, of course, farthest back when the hammer is up. I think you'd have to redo all the internal gears and springs and stuff to disconnect the trigger from it and allow for firing by releasing the hammer with your hand.

It's not really that difficult.  Single action revolvers are very simple mechanisms.  The technique is called 'slip shooting'.  Here's a brief explanation of the technique. 

http://www.midwayusa.com/guntecdictionary.exe/showterm?TermID=4551

I have a little Peacemaker replica in .22 and while I have not permanently modified it, I can get this effect by just holding down the trigger and thumbing back and releasing the hammer repeatedly.  When the hammer cocks, it advances the cylinder.  The hammer will not lock if the trigger is held down or if the trigger is not present.

 

[attackrat]

A little update: Every town will have two special NPCs. Those are similar to the Guild master and will give you quests or something else. So every town will have two of these servants: Pony Express Rider, Lawman, Rancher, Texas Ranger, Banker.
My corrent quest ideas for each servant are:
Pony Express riders:
-deliver message quests.
Lawmen:
-hunting down outlaws.
Rancher:
-hunt down the Indians that stole the cattle and bring them back.
Texas Ranger:
-Escord important persons.
Banker:
-Ability to rent or invest money.
-Very rare: Hunt down bank robbers.

Suggestions are welcome.

By the way: Are there any more scene builders (ingame editor)? I don't think Morgoth wants to make every 14 towns and the forts himself.
Testers are being recruited as well (for those who don't know, yet).

<history nerd>
I suggest calling the Pony Express rider something else, like Wells Fargo dispatcher or something. The Pony Express proper was only in use for a year or so, before regular overland stage service put it out of business. I imagine there were still enough telegraph outages and security/speed needs to warrant sending a rider instead of a telegram or stagecoach, but the job should have a serious time crunch component to make this work: "Get this message to El Paso in 72 hours, and you'll be handsomely rewarded."

Also, would it be possible to bring back the "Track down raiders" quest from the old versions of M&B, with some appropriate Western twists? I keep thinking of "The Searchers" and such, and it seems to me that this is a quest that lends itself perfectly to the Western genre.

 

[Willie_Feo]

More history nerdery:

Wells Fargo would be an excellent source for messenger and freighting missions.

The Texas Rangers were disbanded during the Civil War and did not re-form until the early 1870s.  It's too bad, because Texas Rangers would be an excellent joinable faction for players. 

The Pinkertons would be a good substitute for Texas Rangers and a good source for missions.

Pinkerton Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_National_Detective_Agency

The "Track Down Raiders" quest would be perfect for the army to give out.  Others I can think of are

Army quest- Hunt down and raid a nomadic Indian village for the army

Captive girl quest would be a perfect example of the 'Searchers' type quest.

Mexican quests could be - collect bounty for Indian scalps and a quest to defeat a revolutionary army

NPC leaders should be capturable, because then there could be a whole range of capture outlaw or renegade Indian quests.

Get hired as a gunslinger in a range war between two ranchers.

Hunting buffalo for the army or railroad or whomever.  (Are buffalo still in?)

The old gather horses quest for the US or Mexican armies.

The old 'capture messenger' quest could be revised with a western slant.

By the way, about  my "Wild Bunch" Gatling Gun quest idea.  You'd have to think of a way to keep the players from just running off with the gun after liberating it from the US Army supply train.  Maybe say that the Mexican General has the firing pin and the gun will not work without it???

 

[Kitteh]

Generic holster is done. Has great specular maps. Highlander, can you please tell me what form you need the holster model(s) in? I assume I'd have to do one like the rendered, and one with the revolver handle vertices tucked inside? (since it would use vertex animation, right?)

 

[Willie_Feo]

That's a fine cavalry style holster!  El Paso Saddlery has a fine collection of authentic western style holsters: http://www.epsaddlery.com/c-16-authentic.aspx
gunbelts:
http://www.epsaddlery.com/c-31-cowboy-gunbelts.aspx

More scenarios ideas:

The Last Days has a great system for rescuing your NPC heroes from enemy fortresses.  How about allowing NPCs to get captured?  You could then rescue them from faction appropriate locations

US Cavalry - Military prison
US Civilian - State Penetentiary
Mexican - Mexican prison
Apaches & Comanches - Indian camps