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Beta Patch Notes v1.2.0-v1.2.6
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Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
Did you buy out/convert/destroy all your competition? In my own testing, a year later (Winter 1088 ), I've found that being (potentially) the sole owner of Velvet Dyeworks (of which I own 3) resulted in a massive increase of revenue both passively and actively.
Passively, I managed to stabilize the issue with halting and going under 10,000 Capital by setting the hold rate to 50% but the income was a measly 0-50, averaging ~25 per shop with the real income being the Velvets (about 2-3 per day per shop) that could be sold for ~200 each with little trouble. As I started buying out and then converting (and then selling) the other dyeworks in Calradia, the passive income gradually skyrocketed to the present time of averaging 200 gold per day with a range of ~150-300, sometimes shooting into 400+ territory. The cost of buying out/selling dyeworks became increasingly trivial in light of the income made both passively and actively.
Actively, as I said, the going rate for a single unit of Velvet without looking for where it's scarce is about 200 by the time 200 days have passed and the economy more or less stabilizes, but as I bought out the competition and emptied the market of Velvet the going rate likewise skyrocketed so that ~400 is the new average and ~600 can be found in remote areas very far from any dyeworks. Considering you can make hundreds of Velvets per shop per year, the potential revenue goes from ~16,800 (84*200) to ~32,400 (84*400) at the end of this process--assuming 1 Velvet per day as a minimum. Actual revenue should be at least twice the stated numbers if not more depending on how much Velvet you collect in the Warehouse when hoarding outputs. Note that I'm not entirely certain I've monopolized the Velvet Dyeworks industry but, if I haven't, it's just one more in Aserai lands before I have since every city in Calradia proper and the remote frontiers have been checked by this point.
As it stands, unless Workshops have their passive income potential buffed it's necessary to become a monopolist if you want to make real money passively and highly encouraged to use them as means of mass-producing cheap goods for sale abroad at any rate.
Caravans have been rather simple and stable, in contrast, with an average income of 300 per day per caravan (with difficult to discern difference between Trade mattering versus Scout) with a high degree of variation per day (rarely as high as 1,000 or as low as negative 500). I haven't been paying them as much attention due to their consistency, though.
Passively, I managed to stabilize the issue with halting and going under 10,000 Capital by setting the hold rate to 50% but the income was a measly 0-50, averaging ~25 per shop with the real income being the Velvets (about 2-3 per day per shop) that could be sold for ~200 each with little trouble. As I started buying out and then converting (and then selling) the other dyeworks in Calradia, the passive income gradually skyrocketed to the present time of averaging 200 gold per day with a range of ~150-300, sometimes shooting into 400+ territory. The cost of buying out/selling dyeworks became increasingly trivial in light of the income made both passively and actively.
Actively, as I said, the going rate for a single unit of Velvet without looking for where it's scarce is about 200 by the time 200 days have passed and the economy more or less stabilizes, but as I bought out the competition and emptied the market of Velvet the going rate likewise skyrocketed so that ~400 is the new average and ~600 can be found in remote areas very far from any dyeworks. Considering you can make hundreds of Velvets per shop per year, the potential revenue goes from ~16,800 (84*200) to ~32,400 (84*400) at the end of this process--assuming 1 Velvet per day as a minimum. Actual revenue should be at least twice the stated numbers if not more depending on how much Velvet you collect in the Warehouse when hoarding outputs. Note that I'm not entirely certain I've monopolized the Velvet Dyeworks industry but, if I haven't, it's just one more in Aserai lands before I have since every city in Calradia proper and the remote frontiers have been checked by this point.
As it stands, unless Workshops have their passive income potential buffed it's necessary to become a monopolist if you want to make real money passively and highly encouraged to use them as means of mass-producing cheap goods for sale abroad at any rate.
Caravans have been rather simple and stable, in contrast, with an average income of 300 per day per caravan (with difficult to discern difference between Trade mattering versus Scout) with a high degree of variation per day (rarely as high as 1,000 or as low as negative 500). I haven't been paying them as much attention due to their consistency, though.
Yes. I have been testing workshops since 1.5.10. These tests were done with no competition nearby. I used console commands so there was no war and villages wouldnt get raided or castle bound villages changing hands. Some shops are ok as I will shop if my new video but many are still trash or even worse than before. Things have been tricky since the economy change in 1.8, but I was able to work around then and made a video explaining to all how to do it. Now, when you get shops(at day 200 when the economy has stabilized) and they cant make 100 a day and cost 22k-35k to buy, that is down right ridiculous. in my testing nearly half the shops in the game average making 100 or less a day. Why would anyone invest 25k to make 100 a day. That would take nearly 3 in game years just to make your money back. Its not a matter of location either as I test shops on 11 different things to find out how well they perform. I spent about 30 hours testing every shop in the game and do my due diligence to make sure I am giving reliable info and good data collection. I can say for a fact that something is wrong with shops and most are performing worse than they ever have while have the price to buy them double for no good reason(no clue what dev made that crazy decision) The worst part of all of it, TW doesn't seem to care. Once again a mechanic in the game that is really trash and no developer at TW cares to even acknowledge there is a problem as I have been talking about down word spiral of workshops for nearly a year now and not 1 Dev at TW has even mentioned it. Just sad from a company that says they care about their player base and their game. Just watch and see what response this gets from the devs, And to those that say they don't want to respond to criticism this harsh, I have tried for a year to nicely get them to talk about this and nothing. So what works, if you're nice or an A**HOLE it doesnt matter. No one listens or cares. Can TW say they actually care when they ignore an issue that is getting worse after a year of someone telling them, you got an issue lets fix it before it gets worse. Hmmmmmm
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
How about competition throughout the continent? I'm not getting your results after eliminating competition throughout the entire continent, so I'm guessing the caravans that come and go are essentially ensuing that there's a knock on effect when there's, say, 10, Dyeworks throughout the world that reducing their number one by one results in the value of Velvet rising altogether due to less Velvets being put into and circulated into the world economy. Note that, in my own example, my dyeworks aren't all that particularly placed; they're in Argoron, Myzea, and Galend. The first two just because I've thought about joining the Northerners and the last because I didn't want to over-supply the region and Vlandia seems like a very safe place to invest in property given the lack of danger deep in its territory. In practice, I suspect placement isn't all that relevant since it's the knock on effect of having too much supply globally that really kills revenue rather than just locally.
It seems the reason workshops are either unprofitable or barely profitable is because there's too much supply and not enough demand in both the local and world economy. Reducing supply or increasing demand (either on the player's end or TW's end) would probably fix it altogether.
EDITED to add: Might you happen to own all the Silversmiths in your above case? I have started tracking every Wokshop and produce per town and noticed 7 Silvesmiths in my list in my game (I haven't surveyed the Nahasa Desert region yet so there may be 1 or 2 more). An easy way to test my theory is to simply convert 4 of them to something else (like, say, Breweries) and let that industry be destroyed while you deplete the global supply of Jewelry. You ought to see steady rises in passive revenue over 2 seasons to a year and and elevated average price as you go from town to town.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting the way the economy works is how it ought to be (I think you should do all right without needing to corner the market and deflate it) but saying this is a possible means of making workshops passively profitable. I have only done this once and am only recently (as in, hours ago) documenting some parts of it since I hadn't planned on investigating the manner thoroughly. EDIT 2: It seems you're only missing Akkalat's Silversmith to own them all while every other one checks out with my list, indicating Workshop placement is fixed between games at least.
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I never test getting rid of the competition in the entire world. it's something hardly anyone does and wouldn't factor that into what a shop can make. As far as supply and demand, I test those as well, with input nearby or not, buying the output or not buying it. I test so many things. That of course also doesn't solve, wool weavery, wood and smithy's as their output is gear and they all perform horribly. Why do some shops make 300+ all over the map one patch and then under 100 the next. Thats more about the code vs the game mechanics
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
Caravans are moving goods from A to B constantly, which drives prices accordingly. It's too soon for me to call my anecdote conclusive but I highly suspect the issue is a global excess of supply or lack of demand. It probably won't fix industries which produce cheap goods (or will it? I have no idea and it'd take forever to test it on PS4) but it does make luxury goods extremely profitable. Or, anything with low-costing input (such as Velvet and Oil) and high-yielding output.
Considering hardly anyone does it, it would explain why hardly anyone is making money through Workshops in the current version of the game's economy.
The underlying issue is most likely some game setting or what-have-you that is having the demand for goods be much lower than what it ought to be, so rising demands on the technical side of things would allow Workshops to make decent passive income with little effort from the player while making what I describe stupidly profitable if you go for it.
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I think the real issue here is that whether the shops are meant to be just a quick passive money making for people to help towards wages in the early game or something to keep entertained those who like the whole economy management aspect of the game (who am I to judge), they are way too expansive to buy early game to make a difference and even in optimal conditions don't generate enough profit to be relevant mid/late game.
Basically if you bother with them is simply for the actual enjoyment of doing it (the way it's implemented in Bannerlord I personally don't find fun at all, more like a chore), owning shops does not provide you with any real benefits as the amount you'll earn compared to the money/time investment required are simply not worth it.
If making out of money out of fighting battles wasn't as profitable (not sure if blacksmithing has been fixed or not, another boring part of the game for me I never bothered with) and building up your army was more expansive and the shops more profitable, maybe it would make sense investing in them.
As things are, they seem to be there just for the sake of ticking a box for "we have added a feature to the game", just like the crime system and the alleys.
Basically if you bother with them is simply for the actual enjoyment of doing it (the way it's implemented in Bannerlord I personally don't find fun at all, more like a chore), owning shops does not provide you with any real benefits as the amount you'll earn compared to the money/time investment required are simply not worth it.
If making out of money out of fighting battles wasn't as profitable (not sure if blacksmithing has been fixed or not, another boring part of the game for me I never bothered with) and building up your army was more expansive and the shops more profitable, maybe it would make sense investing in them.
As things are, they seem to be there just for the sake of ticking a box for "we have added a feature to the game", just like the crime system and the alleys.
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
The cost of buying a workshop can be easily recouped if you exploit the system right, so I'd say the better solution would be to make them more profitable at a baseline so that you don't have to be somebody invested in the trading game to make them useful. If you can save up ~50,000, you can buy one workshop and get to shutting down the rest of them to maximize that one (to 3? Not sure what the sweet spot is) in profit. Tournaments are a great way to make fast cash in the early game and once you have the ball rolling the cost of converting other workshops becomes trivial. You could just lay flat and do nothing and make plenty of money (as long as you keep party expenses low. Probably best to limit yourself at ~300 silvers per day in party expenses).
There's also design inconsistencies like Workshops and stuff produced by them that you can pick up and sell abroad via the Warehouse not contributing to your Trade Skill XP despite it being directly intertwined with Trade as a game mode.
My guess is that the trade side of the game may have been the passion of a couple developers but not the majority so it's overlooked compared to the conventional gameplay loop of fighting battles to earn wealth and power. Ideally, becoming a monopolist should have the same effect in granting wealth as being a very successful mercenary since they're almost mutually exclusive play styles since becoming the enemy of even one faction can jeopardize your trade routes (especially NPC-led caravans you own) and any Workshops you own in a faction that declares war on the one you're fighting for would be stolen from you as well.
It used to be kinda OP in Warband to the point where I pretty much endeavored to buy as many Velvet Dyeworks as I could so that I'd be rich enough to casually start a kingdom with loads of elite troops ASAP.
There's also design inconsistencies like Workshops and stuff produced by them that you can pick up and sell abroad via the Warehouse not contributing to your Trade Skill XP despite it being directly intertwined with Trade as a game mode.
My guess is that the trade side of the game may have been the passion of a couple developers but not the majority so it's overlooked compared to the conventional gameplay loop of fighting battles to earn wealth and power. Ideally, becoming a monopolist should have the same effect in granting wealth as being a very successful mercenary since they're almost mutually exclusive play styles since becoming the enemy of even one faction can jeopardize your trade routes (especially NPC-led caravans you own) and any Workshops you own in a faction that declares war on the one you're fighting for would be stolen from you as well.
It used to be kinda OP in Warband to the point where I pretty much endeavored to buy as many Velvet Dyeworks as I could so that I'd be rich enough to casually start a kingdom with loads of elite troops ASAP.
Exactly this, if making money was hard and the only way to be rich was sacrificing battle/combat for a more mercantile playthrough; can make sense. As is, this feature is entirely forgettable, especially with how caravans are tuned to make a lot more than they did in the early EA.
Blacksmithing still broken in terms of making money (ie. invalidates the entire 'economy' features).
Workshops in WB were quite critical (and iirc, no arbitrary cap either), given it took a bit to get your first village (it's always the one that's raided the most) and the income generated is weekly. You don't have that same exponential force factor as we do now with a daily ticker.
Sure, they are added in now for the sake of it checking off 'we have workshops like we did in WB'. But that's as far is it goes for meaning.
Raampagee
Recruit
I would suggest to try a battle while fighting at the frontline on console(ps5)…you will see how you ruined the previous R2 function to move and drag/face it’s literally impossible to properly micro your formation position now while fighting in the front because you will always end up with the attack formation command.
My Turkish brothers and sisters how did you mess this up? Otherwise good changes esp fixing circle and square formation and ai being more defensive I like it.
If foot archers would hold the ground with the attack formation command it would be even better.
My Turkish brothers and sisters how did you mess this up? Otherwise good changes esp fixing circle and square formation and ai being more defensive I like it.
If foot archers would hold the ground with the attack formation command it would be even better.
The v1.2.7 patch is now live for Xbox as well.
Sg15fan
Regular
Shutting down the rest? How?
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
One at a time, buy the other workshops of the type you want to make money from and convert them to something else (ideally something that won't bankrupt the NPC too quickly) so that you eventually become the sole producer and seller of the good you've cornered.
It's important to note that you'll have to shut down new competition over time, but it's at a fairly slow rate in my current playing and, according to an old video of Strat Gaming's, is based on how long it takes for the NPC to go bankrupt.
It requires touring the continent and noting what is where but the end result is ludicrous amounts of money not just passively earned but actively earned by selling held-onto production for you to pick up at the warehouse. Oil, which I broke into after Velvet, went from producing the typical nothing per day to ~1000 while holding 25% of its product and ~700 while holding 50% of its product once I bought out every other Olive Press and shut them down. It had costed me, I'd guesstimate, 200,000 denars but I made that money back within a single season and have become a millionaire by the end of the following year. I'm thinking of doing it again with Pottery should I keep this going and not enter politics (kinda hard to run a global monopoly as a warlord lol) in the near future.
Caravans have also worked well for me and I suspect they increase Workshop profits by driving up demand since they're participating as consumers in the economy.
Selphie Nutter
Recruit
Personally im not overly impressed with this patch, it breaks the game and i hae no intention of using it. Personally i think it would have been better to increase the age range for character death so your character and companions dont die so soon after founding a kingdom.
Making it 50 or 60+ would have been a lot better. It would have allowed us to take our time, raise and raise a family. People may think its realistic for them to die at 40+ but its not, because in reality the kids would havecbeen considered mature at puberty. Since the kids in game dont mature until 18 the death range should be increased to 50 or 60+
Selphie Nutter
Recruit
Capitalism at its best, this post made me laugh
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
What can I say? Other than I really enjoy seeing the numbers go up and being able to casually afford Tier 6 armor and ride a high-end luxury-brand horse while touring the continent and seeing how rich I can get with as little risk to my own person as possible...Capitalism at its best, this post made me laugh
Selphie Nutter
Recruit
What can I say? Other than I really enjoy seeing the numbers go up and being able to casually afford Tier 6 armor and ride a high-end luxury-brand horse while touring the continent and seeing how rich I can get with as little risk to my own person as possible...
thats funny, me, im the opposite, i like to make my money and collect my gear and horses from tournaments, Wader Hotbloods for the win. I like to travel all over competing in tournaments, especially when they offer rear horses as prizes. I win then, get all my clan members to learn breeder then i breed the rear mounts to equip and sell.
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
Why not both? Winning Lambos and Mercedes horses is a great way to get the mercantile grindset going and is just good money and character practice on top of that.
Mercantilism is only mutually exclusive with being a mercenary or a politician (prior to having a large enough country to have a semi-okay-ish self-contained economy).
I didn't know that was a thing--thanks for telling me. Definitely something to consider since my next character will probably be less of a wannabe merchant prince and more of an old school warlord homie lol.
Selphie Nutter
Recruit
If you're going to try the life of a warmongering Horse lordWhy not both? Winning Lambos and Mercedes horses is a great way to get the mercantile grindset going and is just good money and character practice on top of that.
Mercantilism is only mutually exclusive with being a mercenary or a politician (prior to having a large enough country to have a semi-okay-ish self-contained economy).
I didn't know that was a thing--thanks for telling me. Definitely something to consider since my next character will probably be less of a wannabe merchant prince and more of an old school warlord homie lol.
you'll need at least 3xclan members with breeder to get them breeding regularly. 5+ for increased frequency. 5 clan members with breeder tends to give a high chance of the rare horses breeding more often. Its only 1% chance for 1 perk, but it stacks. Even though it says 1% chance they do still breed, but its usually the low level horses like the sumpter horse at first. The scout perk to tame wild horses is also good to have if you're goong to play as a horse lord
