++ MAGNA RENOVATIO ++ Europe 1200 Reloaded.
- Thread starter Cèsar de Quart
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hahaha I have another channel in English as well (TheMayorcete) but I don't upload much videos there.
So, a mini update. I started working on the mod, I finished correcting some error messages present on the compiler of the module files, mainly some very few syntax errors, nothing much and also commenced to finish the Byzantine faction, which from what I have seen is there, but the centres are not assigned to lords, so it is relatively easy to do it. I will post more when I have something worthwhile to report, I don't think minor tweaks and corrections deserve new posts. 
As I have mentioned, I think that the goal should be to stabilize and fix the module with th features it currently has and then add new ones, plus models, OSP packs and others more.
As I have mentioned, I think that the goal should be to stabilize and fix the module with th features it currently has and then add new ones, plus models, OSP packs and others more.
Antonis said:So, a mini update. I started working on the mod, I finished correcting some error messages present on the compiler of the module files, mainly some very few syntax errors, nothing much and also commenced to finish the Byzantine faction, which from what I have seen is there, but the centres are not assigned to lords, so it is relatively easy to do it. I will post more when I have something worthwhile to report, I don't think minor tweaks and corrections deserve new posts.
As I have mentioned, I think that the goal should be to stabilize and fix the module with th features it currently has and then add new ones, plus models, OSP packs and others more.
Great to hear! Keep it up. I suggest you remove ALL the threads since they all are out of date, obscure and 90% are from the old non- warband game. And again, if you need to make new quests, stories and conversations I can help you out as I said before.
Antonis said:So, a mini update. I started working on the mod, I finished correcting some error messages present on the compiler of the module files, mainly some very few syntax errors, nothing much and also commenced to finish the Byzantine faction, which from what I have seen is there, but the centres are not assigned to lords, so it is relatively easy to do it. I will post more when I have something worthwhile to report, I don't think minor tweaks and corrections deserve new posts.
As I have mentioned, I think that the goal should be to stabilize and fix the module with th features it currently has and then add new ones, plus models, OSP packs and others more.
Dude you're the best... I appreciate all you're willing to do. Even if it stops after you've added the Byzantines and made it functional, i'm sure it'll be awesome.
That being said...forgive me that I'd like to update my ideas that I made from the 1st page of this thread:
..... As Antonis said, it must 1st be have basic functionality. That being the mod is workable before we start messing with it. After that IMO, having done a ton of research with the tweaks and played countless hours on the last version (.22)...I feel there are a couple of glaring issues:
The Map Lag Travel speed:
1) Parties on map: I know that Cruger or Korinov or someone tried to make the game "Player Centric" by that I mean you will only see the game process farmers, caravans and bandits within your scope of view. This was in hope to improve gameplay. But as anyone may have seen it didn't really work, there was still allot of lag and it was without a doubt one of major complaints I read about E1200.
I know everyone will chime in and say..."Warband was not designed to handle Maps this big" blah blah blah But I happen to know that if you limit the amount of extemporaneous parties that are wandering about...then the game improves.
As per the tweak to limit bandits, I did allot of work to find out which numbers correspond exactly to which type of bandits. Afterwards, when I lessened the amounts, my map travel lag improved greatly.
Also, if we were to limit farmers and caravans 1st...as a test, we might see how smooth the travel could be.
It of course it should all be tested.
2) Events The scripts call for certain timed events...checking for something every 24 hours, or 36 or whenever. It checks for bandits, it checks for caravans it checks to see what the Lords are doing and in Europe 1200 there are ALLOT of lords! ( For a smaller mod with less parties it doesn't matter) But what I do know is that in Native, the time scheduled script are all bunched up too many at the same time. Map travel can be improved by setting these events apart or spreading at least some of them apart.
I'm not on my gaming CPU right now (just a laptop) so I don't have my notes right now...but I did allot of messing around with those event timers and it seemed to help my game.
Just a thought
I know everyone will chime in and say..."Warband was not designed to handle Maps this big" blah blah blah But I happen to know that if you limit the amount of extemporaneous parties that are wandering about...then the game improves.
As per the tweak to limit bandits, I did allot of work to find out which numbers correspond exactly to which type of bandits. Afterwards, when I lessened the amounts, my map travel lag improved greatly.
Also, if we were to limit farmers and caravans 1st...as a test, we might see how smooth the travel could be.
It of course it should all be tested.
2) Events The scripts call for certain timed events...checking for something every 24 hours, or 36 or whenever. It checks for bandits, it checks for caravans it checks to see what the Lords are doing and in Europe 1200 there are ALLOT of lords! ( For a smaller mod with less parties it doesn't matter) But what I do know is that in Native, the time scheduled script are all bunched up too many at the same time. Map travel can be improved by setting these events apart or spreading at least some of them apart.
I'm not on my gaming CPU right now (just a laptop) so I don't have my notes right now...but I did allot of messing around with those event timers and it seemed to help my game.
Just a thought
The water crossing bug
I feel this is a major playability (functionality) issue Again, it's been discussed up the wazoo and people were just trying to deal with it...but it's a major problem if you played a smaller faction for sure and half your lords and caravans are stuck in a water trap. Beyond the lack of fight support of your lords, if caravans do not arrive then your economy suffers as well.
I best way I had to deal with getting stuck as a player was to enable cheats and use "Ctrl + left click " to escape. That isn't good and of course is a last resort.
If something cannot be done about this by Antonis or whomever, I have a few ideas for work-arounds if possible.
I best way I had to deal with getting stuck as a player was to enable cheats and use "Ctrl + left click " to escape. That isn't good and of course is a last resort.
If something cannot be done about this by Antonis or whomever, I have a few ideas for work-arounds if possible.
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Other stuff:
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- I had asked Korinov to place slavers in all the major coastal cities and he was kind enough to do that in his last release.
- He also raised the prisoner limit to 10 each per "prisoner Mgmt" skill.
- He also slowed down the travel speed of Brigands (the toughest of the bandit types) Reason being, with travel lag and stutter going on, newer players were getting caught too easy and couldn't run from them. Also, it made them easier to catch and you could grab good loot when you got more experienced.
- Just like in Sword & Axe...all the lords have 0 for shield skill, that should be raised and it make them tougher. In my game I made them all 5 shield skill. I also added to my game that All priests (of any type) also had healing skills and surgery. This makes sense because priests were educated and more likely to encounter people that needed healing. That also made fighting enemy forces better for 2 reasons: They were healing quicker with less deaths and also that meant more prisoners for me left over on the battlefield.
= I would hope that it's easy to do from the mod files (simple number change) because I discovered via using Morghs item editor that the Europe 1200 file is TOO big...but I found a work around where I cut the file in half. It took hours to do manually though. haha. I'd be happy to do it again if we have to and for whatever amounts the team decides is best.
- He also raised the prisoner limit to 10 each per "prisoner Mgmt" skill.
- He also slowed down the travel speed of Brigands (the toughest of the bandit types) Reason being, with travel lag and stutter going on, newer players were getting caught too easy and couldn't run from them. Also, it made them easier to catch and you could grab good loot when you got more experienced.
- Just like in Sword & Axe...all the lords have 0 for shield skill, that should be raised and it make them tougher. In my game I made them all 5 shield skill. I also added to my game that All priests (of any type) also had healing skills and surgery. This makes sense because priests were educated and more likely to encounter people that needed healing. That also made fighting enemy forces better for 2 reasons: They were healing quicker with less deaths and also that meant more prisoners for me left over on the battlefield.
= I would hope that it's easy to do from the mod files (simple number change) because I discovered via using Morghs item editor that the Europe 1200 file is TOO big...but I found a work around where I cut the file in half. It took hours to do manually though. haha. I'd be happy to do it again if we have to and for whatever amounts the team decides is best.
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NON game breaking useful tweaks
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Of course some of the tweaks I figured out I feel could and should be applied very easily directly after your 1st functionality version upon release. They are NOT cheating and NOT game breakers IMO. All the others I posted are up to the players to use for their own individual games.
For example:
(1) How to level up your lords and change their equipment...with PIC (Ref #6)
- After you give a fief to a companion you can't level them up anymore, or change their equipment because they become lords. Same goes for lords you convinced to join your side. Also the game changes what ever equipment you companions had prior to becoming a lord. Some end up with really crappy weapons choices IMO.
(2) Enable (make easier) to donate money to villagers for relation gain (Ref # 87 A-C)
- Part A only...B and C should be left default
- Obviously, there does need to be some sort of poverty or hardship for there to be a need of a donation. Of course if the town / village is RICH, there is no need for the donation and so the option would not be available in that case.
(3) Tweak to see the time next to the date (ref # 9
(4) Tweak to enable Tavern keeper to buy prisoners (ref # 82)
* My rational for wanting this tweak in E1200 is because when I'm deep into Russia for example its a pain in the neck to find Ransom brokers in local taverns and TOO far away from most coastal Slave Traders. With this tweak you can sell off your prisoners at any tavern. However, the price could be made much lower than official Slavers so as to represent the Tavern keeper taking a cut of profit (i.e. being the middleman).
(5) I would love to have my "Renounce and become your own king" option (1st page, Ref #32) placed in the game. But only if we can add the option to change our minds before clicking Yes / Confirm. That way it would be clean. Perhaps with your understanding of the mod system it should be easy to do.
For example:
(1) How to level up your lords and change their equipment...with PIC (Ref #6)
- After you give a fief to a companion you can't level them up anymore, or change their equipment because they become lords. Same goes for lords you convinced to join your side. Also the game changes what ever equipment you companions had prior to becoming a lord. Some end up with really crappy weapons choices IMO.
(2) Enable (make easier) to donate money to villagers for relation gain (Ref # 87 A-C)
- Part A only...B and C should be left default
- Obviously, there does need to be some sort of poverty or hardship for there to be a need of a donation. Of course if the town / village is RICH, there is no need for the donation and so the option would not be available in that case.
(3) Tweak to see the time next to the date (ref # 9
(4) Tweak to enable Tavern keeper to buy prisoners (ref # 82)
* My rational for wanting this tweak in E1200 is because when I'm deep into Russia for example its a pain in the neck to find Ransom brokers in local taverns and TOO far away from most coastal Slave Traders. With this tweak you can sell off your prisoners at any tavern. However, the price could be made much lower than official Slavers so as to represent the Tavern keeper taking a cut of profit (i.e. being the middleman).
(5) I would love to have my "Renounce and become your own king" option (1st page, Ref #32) placed in the game. But only if we can add the option to change our minds before clicking Yes / Confirm. That way it would be clean. Perhaps with your understanding of the mod system it should be easy to do.
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Hoping for these.... Needed for the long games
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(1) Europe 1200 is a big mod with lots of factions. I like the Manpower option but I was hoping that the requirements for lords to want to speak with you about joining or switching factions be LOWERED.
- I love to role play as Merc who becomes his own king. It's hard however to get others to join you when you're a small faction to start out with.
- It'd be nice if we had the option to bribe or Pay a Lord (random small %) for his betrayal and coming over to our side.
(2) Wives or spouses play an important role in the Long Games.
Of the women in the game, only daughters are able to be married. You can court with Lords sisters or aunts and such... but the code in the game will not let you marry them. This sux.
- I also wish there was a way to attempt to sneak into a castle in order to see a women (daughter, aunt, cousin ect) that you know is currently in the castle...yet does not show up in the hall.
* Perhaps if you get caught, you get thrown in the castle prison and have to pay a fine to get out. Otherwise, if you succeeded, you could give a compliment to the girl and start the whole courtship process. Albeit you'll still have to smooth things out with the father. haha
**Waiting for them to show up in a feast is almost impossible in Europe 1200 unless you arrive early... otherwise, the hall fills up with too man lords and the women become inaccessible.
(3) THIS ONE IS HUGE IMO FOR GAME LONGEVITY = When you are a king and you're handing out Fiefs...your lords start to dislike you very quickly. Currently if one of your Lords has a wife that you dedicated a tournament to PRIOR to getting married...then you'll be able to buy gifts and have a shot at raising your relations with that lord.
- However, AFTER you're married you can no longer make dedications...therefore you're screwed if you cannot get a lord to join you that also has a wife that LIKES you????
* Possible solution for this could be to ENABLE the ability to make a dedication to other women even after you're married.
- I love to role play as Merc who becomes his own king. It's hard however to get others to join you when you're a small faction to start out with.
- It'd be nice if we had the option to bribe or Pay a Lord (random small %) for his betrayal and coming over to our side.
(2) Wives or spouses play an important role in the Long Games.
Of the women in the game, only daughters are able to be married. You can court with Lords sisters or aunts and such... but the code in the game will not let you marry them. This sux.
- I also wish there was a way to attempt to sneak into a castle in order to see a women (daughter, aunt, cousin ect) that you know is currently in the castle...yet does not show up in the hall.
* Perhaps if you get caught, you get thrown in the castle prison and have to pay a fine to get out. Otherwise, if you succeeded, you could give a compliment to the girl and start the whole courtship process. Albeit you'll still have to smooth things out with the father. haha
**Waiting for them to show up in a feast is almost impossible in Europe 1200 unless you arrive early... otherwise, the hall fills up with too man lords and the women become inaccessible.
(3) THIS ONE IS HUGE IMO FOR GAME LONGEVITY = When you are a king and you're handing out Fiefs...your lords start to dislike you very quickly. Currently if one of your Lords has a wife that you dedicated a tournament to PRIOR to getting married...then you'll be able to buy gifts and have a shot at raising your relations with that lord.
- However, AFTER you're married you can no longer make dedications...therefore you're screwed if you cannot get a lord to join you that also has a wife that LIKES you????
* Possible solution for this could be to ENABLE the ability to make a dedication to other women even after you're married.
About those problems, as I think I have shared my thoughts before, here's my thoughts: For parties, you are correct, reducing the travelling parties will reducce lag, peasants are first to 'go'. About caravans, I really like their number, because they help economy move and that way, not every twon the player goes is stagnating in poverty. But we can compromise by reducing the bandit parties, making them less in number, but with more troops in each, to compensate.
About the sea crossing bug, I had it too, in one of my mods(Fires of War) and all I did was adding fjord textures in some water areas, making the crossable. In those, we can add a script to change the map icon from horseman to ship, to improve realism, but be warned, it will increase lag. Of course, we can leave the icon as it is.
The shield thing of the lords is a mistake I did in the Sword and the Axe, I forgot to change their stats.
It is easy to cahnge, just a number as you mention, although a time consuming thing, especially in Europe 1200, where there are countless lords. I may need some help in that one, as doing them all by myself will take well, maybe years.
About your tweaks, I said that before, but you are a master to them, Subitai. Some of the are masterpieces and I have yet to figure out how to translate into module files. Some are obvious, but given the nature of the text files, which I admit I haven't fully understood yet, unlike the source code, some elude me. I do hop you will help me on that, too.
Now, about the suggestions:
1) I seem to recall having seen such a code somewhere, about bribing lords, I will add it as soon as I am done with the basic stuff.
2) Yes, women are a bit insignificant in Warband, in the sense that marrying them doesn't actually do anything, besides increasing some relations here and there and giving the player some unique quests(like the feast or sth). I have some things in mind, but I want to test first, not give false hopes. To make them accessible in feasts I will have to research, though, as I suspect this is a Native thing, not Europe 1200 one.
3) The tournament dedications will change at some point, I plan to make the player give the 'crown of beauty' to the woman he desires. Currently, I managed that only with dialogues, but having such an item in inventory after you win a tournament and then handing it over or keeping it is better, right?
That was all, also, in the latest module system files, there are some new lords, towns and castles that are nameless. So, when I compile without errors, I would need the mod's great researchers to provide those names. From what I've seen, those are a couple of Lithuanian lords and towns and some balkan ones. Once I have the map ready for a pic, I will share it with you.
About the sea crossing bug, I had it too, in one of my mods(Fires of War) and all I did was adding fjord textures in some water areas, making the crossable. In those, we can add a script to change the map icon from horseman to ship, to improve realism, but be warned, it will increase lag. Of course, we can leave the icon as it is.
The shield thing of the lords is a mistake I did in the Sword and the Axe, I forgot to change their stats.
It is easy to cahnge, just a number as you mention, although a time consuming thing, especially in Europe 1200, where there are countless lords. I may need some help in that one, as doing them all by myself will take well, maybe years.
About your tweaks, I said that before, but you are a master to them, Subitai. Some of the are masterpieces and I have yet to figure out how to translate into module files. Some are obvious, but given the nature of the text files, which I admit I haven't fully understood yet, unlike the source code, some elude me. I do hop you will help me on that, too.
Now, about the suggestions:
1) I seem to recall having seen such a code somewhere, about bribing lords, I will add it as soon as I am done with the basic stuff.
2) Yes, women are a bit insignificant in Warband, in the sense that marrying them doesn't actually do anything, besides increasing some relations here and there and giving the player some unique quests(like the feast or sth). I have some things in mind, but I want to test first, not give false hopes. To make them accessible in feasts I will have to research, though, as I suspect this is a Native thing, not Europe 1200 one.
3) The tournament dedications will change at some point, I plan to make the player give the 'crown of beauty' to the woman he desires. Currently, I managed that only with dialogues, but having such an item in inventory after you win a tournament and then handing it over or keeping it is better, right?
That was all, also, in the latest module system files, there are some new lords, towns and castles that are nameless. So, when I compile without errors, I would need the mod's great researchers to provide those names. From what I've seen, those are a couple of Lithuanian lords and towns and some balkan ones. Once I have the map ready for a pic, I will share it with you.
Meelis13
Recruit
peasants should go, yes, but i think AI should be more agressive in moving & training troops. If possible, add option for war-mongering AI factions. Also, not sure if possible, but ability to replace current king of faction with player character would be nice (during game)- maybe even get small civil war battle going
No, in Native Warband you can only create a new faction of your own, but you start from "scratch" (only your own fiefs at the time you proclaimed yourself independent). I think Meelis13 wants a way for you to overthrow the leader of an existing faction and take his place (so, f.e., you overthrow John Lackland and become King of England, keeping all his lords, settlements etc). Though I don't see how that can be made to be both different from the Native option* AND not too easy**.
* - You can always name your new faction "Kingdom of England" or something similar and "simulate" the ensuing civil war by slowly capturing settlements and convincing lords.
** - Political intrigues don't really exist in Warband (unfortunately), so if the player had the option to kill the faction leader and take his place just like that, there wouldn't really be any intrigue (pardon the pun) in the game.
Btw, Antonis, whenever you're ready with the map-pic, send me a PM and I'll be able to help with the Balkans (especially if it's in the Bulgarian area). For Lithuania we'd probably have to check the respective research thread though.
* - You can always name your new faction "Kingdom of England" or something similar and "simulate" the ensuing civil war by slowly capturing settlements and convincing lords.
** - Political intrigues don't really exist in Warband (unfortunately), so if the player had the option to kill the faction leader and take his place just like that, there wouldn't really be any intrigue (pardon the pun) in the game.
Btw, Antonis, whenever you're ready with the map-pic, send me a PM and I'll be able to help with the Balkans (especially if it's in the Bulgarian area). For Lithuania we'd probably have to check the respective research thread though.
Oh, sorry, I must have misunderstood.
And yes, I can see how just killing a king and take his place might be considered as cheating. An option I can suggest is when the player gathers an amount of renown, honour(right to rule) and fiefs(like 1/3 of castles of his faction), an extra menu option may appear saying to rebel against king and keep fiefs and relations with lords, but make enemy with king and faction. That way, he can persuade lords of that faction to join, while fighting the king and his supporters at the same time. Basically, a changed version of what happens in Native when you attack a faction and try to conquer it. Like a civil war, as you said. But still, it won't be a take-over, just a new faction, with different circumstance. I cannot see another way.
As for the map, it is actually finished, but I am ironing compiler errors out. Most are from index not properly written or appended. Again, huge thanks to Korinov who sent me a near complete module system, along with all Byzantine codes. Also, I have seen in the files a new Byzantine quest, which I will add when done with the rest. Without it, I cannot even imagine how we would start from the beggining, when the mod has ~50 factions.
And yes, I can see how just killing a king and take his place might be considered as cheating. An option I can suggest is when the player gathers an amount of renown, honour(right to rule) and fiefs(like 1/3 of castles of his faction), an extra menu option may appear saying to rebel against king and keep fiefs and relations with lords, but make enemy with king and faction. That way, he can persuade lords of that faction to join, while fighting the king and his supporters at the same time. Basically, a changed version of what happens in Native when you attack a faction and try to conquer it. Like a civil war, as you said. But still, it won't be a take-over, just a new faction, with different circumstance. I cannot see another way.
As for the map, it is actually finished, but I am ironing compiler errors out. Most are from index not properly written or appended. Again, huge thanks to Korinov who sent me a near complete module system, along with all Byzantine codes. Also, I have seen in the files a new Byzantine quest, which I will add when done with the rest. Without it, I cannot even imagine how we would start from the beggining, when the mod has ~50 factions.
For the king-overthrow - I don't think there's much of a difference either way. Perhaps a "new" mechanic could eventually be added, where you'd be able to plot with the other lords to overthrow the king before you leap into action. So you could try to convince them in various ways (the same way or perhaps even mechanic as you'd try to convince them in Native after you've rebelled - basically, "the king is unjust" or "I'd give you more fiefs" or whatever), but the first guy you fail to convince would immediately inform the king, and depending on your relations with the king, he'd either let it pass this time and you lose a lot of relations with him (case in point - our mod's Byzantine emperor was warned a number of times that our Ivanko is planning to rebel, but the emperor didn't believe it) or you immediately start the civil war (the lords you've already convinced automatically join you against the king and the loyalist lords). But that's a new mechanic that's probably best left for after all the factions are in...
A very good idea. And yes, those things should wait until all the factions are in and all errors and bugs are corrected(there are no errors that glare so much, just the kinor mistakes I mentioned). I can see and really appreciate the ton of work and love that has been given to the mod from its team.
About factions, apart from the Byzantines, whic other factions should we add? There isn't a limit, as it is, but performance REALLY slows down with added parties(settlements, lords, farmers, caravans and such). As a test, I reduced bandit and caravan number, and it helps a lot. I think Subitai mentioned that, so credits and thanks to him.
About factions, apart from the Byzantines, whic other factions should we add? There isn't a limit, as it is, but performance REALLY slows down with added parties(settlements, lords, farmers, caravans and such). As a test, I reduced bandit and caravan number, and it helps a lot. I think Subitai mentioned that, so credits and thanks to him.
Antonis said:
I follow all the threads that are active, and post only when I feel I got something smart or useful to say: For new factions I would love to see the Rum, The crusade factions, Ayyubids (I think they where around 1200 if I'm not mistaken), and some more, but I would really really see the HRE in separate factions like they where in real life, than 1 whole country.
Well, about the splitting of the HRE, that seems easy, but it is not. I tried to do something similar in a mod I made, to stat with Native 6 factions and split each in half to have 12 factions, and I ended up frustrated and made new factions. It really isn't worth the trouble it brings. But for the others, it is up to Nike, since he is the researcher, I will do as I am told.
But what I mentioned still stands. The more factions we have, the more it will lag and there's no way around it.
But what I mentioned still stands. The more factions we have, the more it will lag and there's no way around it.
