++ MAGNA RENOVATIO ++ Europe 1200 Reloaded.

[Cèsar de Quart]

Let's get this done!

In this thread we'll coordinate the efforts needed in order to bring back the mod, polish it, give it some love and eventually bring it forward to the righteous path.

It will be done. God wills it!

I'll upload this frontpage with news from time to time, information, and proper graphic art. Probably scrolls and Caroline Minuscule, rocking like it's 1204!

Until then, take care!

+++

FUNDATORES
Cruger - Founder, Coding.
Korinov - Successor, Coding, Mapping.

SECUTORES
Cèsar de Quart - Inclitus Scholasticus (Texturing, Research, others)
Delzaros - Scene making.
Revan Shan - Herald (Uploader and Promoter)
Mykami - Artista (Drawing)
Quapitty - Scenographista (Scene making, Texturing)
mihailo.razvigor* - Research, others.
Tsewe** - Scene making, Research.

* previously known as MihailoSRB.
* previously known as Brubar.

RENOVATORES
Antonis - Magnus Renovator (Script Wizard)
igorbb - Miles Magister (Code Knight)
NikeBG - Doctus Bulgaricus (Research)


Thanks To (not including the ones from the mod for the original M&B): (alphabetical order)
Al_Mansur
Alex_S
Arch3r
Baron Conrad
Blackbeard21
Brego
Caba'drin
Caprera
Computicas
Count DeMonet
Corwin_of_amber
Cuffeee
Csatádi
Dent
DrTomas
El-Diablito
FALX
Fisheye
Friscius
Gannish
GodHandApostle
Hessuu
Hrobatos
The IG Clan
IgorBB
Kator Viridian
Kdm
Khergiter
King of europe
Kocken
Kovas
Kuauik
Lord Szentgyorgyi
MadVader
MartinF
Niczego
Nordous
Pan-boroda
Peacemaker
Random Norman
Robert
Rubik
Ruthven
Shikaka
Skandinav
Sotuu
Styo
Subitai
Termi
Touareg
Trevty1995
Udud
Velico
Waihti

 

[Antonis]

So, I don't know if Cesar wanted the second post for reservation. If it is so, Cesar feel free to edit/move/remove my post.

Anyway, I fixed most of the module system's typos/syntax errors. Technically, it is now a very good operating Module System.

The part that's troubling me: Apart from the module files, the compiler uses another set of files, called id_x.py files. Those are a type of index, if you will, where most of the types and entities for each module file are located. The are created after you make an entry to the module files and compile. And that's the problem. The decompiler does produce results, but only module files. Now, the native compiler tool uses those, the id files, the header files(a type of 'library' or 'archives') and another set called proccess.  I am using the WRECK compiler, which is way better than the Native one and also doesn't use the process files. But it does use the id files and because the module files are already compiled and the id files are from Native, there are many inconsistencies. I know those sound puzzling, so I Will give an example:

There are originally 6 factions in the Native module file. Let's say I add one more and then compile. After that, in the id_file, the index, there has been mad an entry for that faction, named faction_7 =17 or something. I continue adding factions and it goes like this.

The problem in our case is that the compiler reads two different things: A compiled factions file with 56 factions(incl. the Orders) and an id_file, that acts as its guide, that contains only 6 factions. And it cannot go one, it cannot compile.

Now, I could add these missing factions from the file by hand, and all will be well. But the thing is, that goes for most module files, especially for items, where I would have to add 600+ entries, the troops, where the new entries are more than 1000 and also scripts, triggers, sounds and such. And all by double checking I haven't miss something or written the same thing twice, because that would also lead to a fatal error. We are talking about a procedure that was so tiresome and virtually impossible, that they made scripts to having it done automatically.

I am working on that matter. But, if that continues for a prolonged period of time, we will have serious problems. So, I really believe we should find the mod's latest files somewhere, if not, I don't know.

To outline and sum up: thanks to igorbb who thought of the decompiler in the first place, we now have a fully functional set of module files, complete and with all the entries made. I have corrected most of the existing errors, so we are even better than the module files of the last version of the mod. But we cannot use it as it is. We now have all the material to build the house, but we don't have the architectural plans, to put it simply. 

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Oh damn...

First of all, thanks for the work!

Now, second... I get the problem, but shouldn't there be a way to circumvent it? The alternative to having the "blueprints" would be to index everything manually... and that's not feasable.

Unless Korinov comes out of his Internet monastic retreat, we're quite screwed as it is, right? Unless we start all over again, but that would also be quite a pain. I have found his real email and I'm contacting him as we speak (but if he lost his PC to a massive accident, we may just never get them Modules System files at all).

 

[Antonis]

Well, you have understood it correctly. It is as you have put it, either finding those 'blueprints', or index files, or start again. That would be quite bad.

Now, if in the end Korinov is nowhere to be found or he doesn't have the module files, the best I can suggest is this: We have the models, textures, banners and I hope the research and the plans, right? Now, I have a Module System from the mod I am working on, that has 22 factions already built in. It has different things than the Europe 1200 files, another map, that we would need to re-work for the mod, because mine takes place in antiquity and other differences. But it ready, tested and a good base to add things. Of course, a lot of work has to be put in, to make it go to the Europe 1200 direction, but at least, it has a Europe map and 22 factions, and many built-in scripts, mini-mods and such. It is better than starting from scratch, with Native Warband map and 6 factions. If we don't have the files at the end, I am willing to offer it completely to the mod and 'transform' it with your help and the others'.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Well, you have understood it correctly. It is as you have put it, either finding those 'blueprints', or index files, or start again. That would be quite bad.

Now, if in the end Korinov is nowhere to be found or he doesn't have the module files, the best I can suggest is this: We have the models, textures, banners and I hope the research and the plans, right? Now, I have a Module System from the mod I am working on, that has 22 factions already built in. It has different things than the Europe 1200 files, another map, that we would need to re-work for the mod, because mine takes place in antiquity and other differences. But it ready, tested and a good base to add things. Of course, a lot of work has to be put in, to make it go to the Europe 1200 direction, but at least, it has a Europe map and 22 factions, and many built-in scripts, mini-mods and such. It is better than starting from scratch, with Native Warband map and 6 factions. If we don't have the files at the end, I am willing to offer it completely to the mod and 'transform' it with your help and the others'.

Sounds like a Plan B!

 

[Subitai]

Antonis you rock dude.  Thanks to everyone so far to trying...I don't know if my heart can take all these ups and downs.

Whether it goes to plan B or not...I can think of a laundry list of things (that can be doable) that should be addressed.  But no point in bringing them up just yet.

Lastly, Cesar...I'm so glad you answered that initial PM...without your voice or presence, we'd never get off the ground.

I also want to thank iggorbb for his advice about the decompiler..."WITHOUT YOU DUDE, we'd be up sh!t's creek without a paddle"! 

Here we go with the fingers crossing again...

 

[Antonis]

Well, I am for one very happy to see you so enthusiastic. But don't worry, in either case, we now are covered. If Korinov sends his entire Module System or at least his id_files, we are good. If not, I have, as I said a module system ready. Yes, it will require a lot of work, but it has 22 factions, the templates for more, a map, and of course, we have all the resources of Europe 1200 ready(models, textures, banners etc). All we need is to 'connect' them together. It will be done either way.

I hope the first succeeds, of course, because it would be more complete, faster and better in every way, but the Plan B is viable as it is. And I really hope that you will help us, there are a lot of stuff to be done.

Now, igorbb continues to help immensely. He sent me an id_items file, which is, from what I see complete. That means that one of the obstacles has been taken down, thanks to him. 

Finally, I wanted to suggest something. For me, it worked very good in the past, and I think it will work again. When we establish a module system, we have our base. Then, I will contact each Europe 1200 team member to see who is 'aboard' and who's not. Also, I wanted to invite Subitai and igorbb, because both have done many things for the mod. When we are assembled, I think that we should find a means to communicate and a common 'ground' to gather and discuss the mod. I have established a Steam Group for one of my mods, where my team-mates and me discussed things we added, how we should proceed and such. It was easier, quicker and better, because it was like a web-site for the team. Then, of course, we can post everything here, as a progress log. I propose this, because most of us live in different time-zones and is difficult to sent messages to everyone and then wait until everyone answers. With that group, we will have somewhere to post, discuss and report. Like a forum for the team. But that's just a suggestion. It doesn't have anything to do with the progress of the mod per se, but rather, it's a medium of convenience. 

Hope is rising again.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Great! Then let's consider adding in more members to the team!

 

[Antonis]

The more the merrier, as they say. 
I think we must wait until Korinov is certain not to reply, and then contact all the former team members. And then, seeing who responds and what positions we have uncovered, plan what to do.

 

[Subitai]

Well right now I think its pretty obvious that Cesar is the "THE MAN, the big cheese, el capitan, the head hauncho in charge". 

I know its selfish but I feel that enough waiting has been done and on the strength of Cesar' s permissions, we should act 1st an not worry. 

Seriously, nobody would come forth to say "you cannot proceed" ...because we intend to strike while the iron is hot and do so with good intentions. 

Look at the alternative,  nobody would say " you must let it die".  That'd be silly
So lets move forward
Dos centavos....

 

[Antonis]

Hehe, you ARE enthusiastic. 
For now, we must wait what Korinov will sent and then, we'll see how are we standing and we proceed. A few more days of waiting isn't hard when the waiting lasted for almost two years, right? 

 

[Subitai]

Haha, dude I once couldn't register my boat with the town because I had to wait for the previous owner who was "non essendum" to NOT respond to my letter. 

It would then come back as "Return to sender - No such address", only after that would the town let me register my boat.  It's funny because I feel we're waiting for the same thing.

ANYWAYS!!!! 

Once things get going I feel there are some obvious items on the checklist to address 1st.  As Antonis said, it must 1st be have basic functionality.  That being the mod is workable before we start messing with it.

After that IMO, having done a ton of research with the tweaks and played countless hours on the last version (.22)...I feel there are a couple of glaring issues:
  The Map Lag Travel speed:

Spoiler

1) Parties on map:  I know that Cruger or Korinov or someone tried to make the game "Player Centric"  by that I mean you will only see the game process farmers, caravans and bandits within your scope of view.  This was in hope to improve gameplay.  But as anyone may have seen it didn't really work, there was still allot of lag and it was without a doubt one of major complaints I read about E1200. 

I know everyone will chime in and say..."Warband was not designed to handle Maps this big" blah blah blah  But I happen to know that if you limit the amount of extemporaneous parties that are wandering about...then the game improves.

As per the tweak to limit bandits, I did allot of work to find out which numbers correspond exactly to which type of bandits.  Afterwards, when I lessened the amounts, my map travel lag improved greatly. 

Also, if we were to limit farmers and caravans 1st...as a test, we might see how smooth the travel could be.

It of course it should all be tested.

2) Events  The scripts call for certain timed events...checking for something every 24 hours, or 36 or whenever.  It checks for bandits, it checks for caravans it checks to see what the Lords are doing and in Europe 1200 there are ALLOT of lords!  ( For a smaller mod with less parties it doesn't matter) But what I do know is that in Native, the time scheduled script are all bunched up too many at the same time.  Map travel can be improved by setting these events apart or spreading at least some of them apart.

I'm not on my gaming CPU right now (just a laptop) so I don't have my notes right now...but I did allot of messing around with those event timers and it seemed to help my game.

Just a thought

The water crossing bug

Spoiler

I feel this is a major playability (functionality) issue  Again, it's been discussed up the wazoo and people were just trying to deal with it...but it's a major problem if you played a smaller faction for sure and half your lords and caravans are stuck in a water trap.  Beyond the lack of fight support of your lords,  if caravans do not arrive then your economy suffers as well.

I best way I had to deal with getting stuck as a player was to enable cheats and use "Ctrl + left click " to escape.  That isn't good and of course is a last resort. 

If something cannot be done about this by Antonis or whomever, I have a few ideas for work-arounds if possible.

Off the top of my head, that's a start for FUNTIONALTY stuff.

=====================================
Other stuff:
=====================================

Spoiler

- I had asked Korinov to place slavers in all the major coastal cities and he was kind enough to do that in his last release. 
- He also raised the prisoner limit to 10 each per "prisoner Mgmt" skill.
- He also slowed down the travel speed of Brigands (the toughest of the bandit types) Reason being, with travel lag and stutter going on, newer players were getting caught too easy and couldn't run from them.  Also, it made them easier to catch and you could grab good loot when you got more experienced. 
- Just like in Sword & Axe...all the lords have 0 for shield skill, that should be raised and it make them tougher.  In my game I made them all 5 shield skill. I also added to my game that All priests (of any type) also had healing skills  and surgery.  This makes sense because priests were educated and more likely to encounter people that needed healing.  That also made fighting enemy forces better for 2 reasons:  They were healing quicker with less deaths and also that meant more prisoners for me left over on the battlefield.
  = I would hope that it's easy to do from the mod files (simple number change) because I discovered via using Morghs item editor that the Europe 1200 file is TOO big...but I found a work around where I cut the file in half.  It took hours to do manually though. haha.  I'd be happy to do it again if we have to and for whatever amounts the team decides is best. 

==================
NON game breaking useful tweaks
==================

Spoiler

Of course some of the tweaks I figured out I feel could and should be applied very easily directly after your 1st functionality version upon release.  They are NOT cheating and NOT game breakers IMO.  All the others I posted are up to the players to use for their own individual games. 

For example:
(1) How to level up your lords and change their equipment...with PIC (Ref #6)
    - After you give a fief to a companion you can't level them up anymore, or change their equipment because they become lords.  Same goes for lords you convinced to join your side.    Also the game changes what ever equipment you companions had prior to becoming a lord.  Some end up with really crappy weapons choices IMO.

(2) Enable (make easier) to donate money to villagers for relation gain (Ref # 87 A-C) 
    - Part A only...B and C should be left default
    - Obviously, there does need to be some sort of poverty or hardship for there to be a need of a donation.  Of course if the town / village is RICH, there is no need for the donation and so the option would not be available in that case. 

(3) Tweak to see the time next to the date  (ref # 9 

(4)  Tweak to enable Tavern keeper to buy prisoners  (ref # 82)
    * My rational for wanting this tweak in E1200 is because when I'm deep into Russia for example its a pain in the neck to find Ransom brokers in local taverns and TOO far away from most coastal Slave Traders.  With this tweak you can sell off your prisoners at any tavern.  However, the price could be made much lower than official Slavers so as to represent the Tavern keeper taking a cut of profit (i.e. being the middleman). 

(5) I would love to have my "Renounce and become your own king" option (1st page, Ref #32) placed in the game. But only if we can add the option to change our minds before clicking Yes / Confirm.  That way it would be clean.  Perhaps with your understanding of the mod system it should be easy to do.

===============================
Hoping for these.... Needed for the long games
===============================

Spoiler

(1) Europe 1200 is a big mod with lots of factions.  I like the Manpower option but I was hoping that the requirements for lords to want to speak with you about joining or switching factions be LOWERED. 
        - I love to role play as  Merc who becomes his own king.  It's hard however to get others to join you when you're a small faction to start out with. 
        - It'd be nice if we had the option to bribe or Pay a  Lord (random small %) for his betrayal and coming over to our side. 

(2)  Wives or spouses play an important role in the Long Games.
Of the women in the game, only daughters are able to be married.  You can court with Lords sisters or aunts and such... but the code in the game will not let you marry them.  This sux.
      - I also wish there was a way to attempt to sneak into a castle in order to see a women (daughter, aunt, cousin ect) that you know is currently in the castle...yet does not show up in the hall. 
    * Perhaps if  you get caught, you get thrown in the castle prison and have to pay a fine to get out.  Otherwise, if you succeeded, you could give a compliment to the girl and start the whole courtship process.  Albeit you'll still have to smooth things out with the father.  haha
    **Waiting for them to show up in a feast is almost impossible in Europe 1200 unless you arrive early... otherwise, the hall fills up with too man lords and the women become inaccessible. 


(3) THIS ONE IS HUGE IMO FOR GAME LONGEVITY = When you are a king and you're handing out Fiefs...your lords start to dislike you very quickly.  Currently if one of your Lords has a wife that you dedicated a tournament to PRIOR to getting married...then you'll be able to buy gifts and have a shot at raising your relations with that lord. 
    - However, AFTER you're married you can no longer make dedications...therefore you're screwed if you cannot get a lord to join you that also has a wife that LIKES you????

    * Possible solution for this could be to ENABLE the ability to make a dedication to other women even after you're married.

 

 

[Antonis]

Thanks for the report. 

About the map travel lag, I also mentioned that to Cesar, it's a pretty annoying problem and it happens to all. I have a quite good PC, I am playing  games like the Witcher 2 etc. in High settings, but when playing Europe 1200 it lags oh-so-much! You are correct, it's the timed events, but most importantly the various parties. Both causes are easy to fix with the source code, however.

The water crossing bug it's a more complex one, because it has to do with the Sea travel script, not with the mod. I also had that bug in the Fires of War mod, that had sea travel. Haven't found a fix yet.

About the more minor stuff, I really hope you will sent me your notes or even fiddle with the files yourself, if we have them ready. I also tweaked most of the troops and itemkinds files of the mod and Gods, those were massive files. 1370 items and 2000+ troops? It took me days to finish tweaking both.

Also, if Korinov sends us the module files of the last version, we can continue with all that he added and add new stuff. 

 

[Subitai]

For the water crossing bug, I can think of at least 2 work-arounds but they have to be done manually.  I wouldn't mind though because I like to micro manage everything about my kingdoms. 

1stly, even when a party is stuck you can still talk to them...which means you can interact with them via conversation.

If it's farmers or caravans that is getting stuck... adding a function to talk to them and disband them or dissolve them somehow might work.
Or have a kill / reset all reset farmers and caravans option.

For Lords, it could sort of be the Free lancer type saving option.  We could input an option to talk to a stuck lord and have him join you for a moment (basically combine with your party) and then you'd have to "Ctrl+left click" him out of there. 

= It's not and elegant solution but you can free your lords from the eternal damnation of being stuck in the water.

Lets face it, for some people, that's a game breaker.

 

[Antonis]

Unfortunately, it is, but I am sure we will figure something by that time. 

 

[Subitai]

Unfortunately, it is, but I am sure we will figure something by that time. 

It isn't really for me...I love this mod too much.  But what ends up happening is I just stay away from factions that utilize the sea more.  I guess "that"... in and of itself says allot.

 

[Antonis]

Yeah, it's exactly that. English Kingdoms have difficulties with it. Otherwise, the other nations are fine. I tend to play most with Castille, the Moors of Spain or roleplaying a German Teutonic knight, so I don't notice it too much.

 

[NikeBG]

The Adriatic coast was pretty troublesome as well. Sometimes I've been wondering if a complete rework of the sea travelling system might be better. Oh, well, if Korinov doesn't answer Cesar's mail, then we'd have to start with a new map anyway, right?

 

[Antonis]

Yes, probably. As I mentioned, I have a map and about 22 factions ready for another mod of mine. The map is Mundus Magnus OSP map, it goes from the Atlantic to India. It is a tiny portion smaller than the current map, but it is a lot smoother and so far, I haven't encountered any problems with water travel. Ok, that's false. There is a problem if you try to embark from about Morocco to England, sail the Atlantic, that is. But otherwise, the Mediterannean, the Adriatic, the North sea and also the Atlantic from Spain and up are fine. Also, you could sail through the Black and Caspian Sea, although it's a bit silly to buy a boat only for a lake.

But I really hope that Korinov has the Module System. That would mean taking over exactly from the point where he left and fixing things and adding new ones. Otherwise, we would have to go back for quite some time.

 

[caccamoo]

gj guys ! one of best mod in m&b warband in my opinion, fix some bug and can be perfect