Your ideal *insert genre here* game

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Agent Griff

Master Knight
M&B
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Ok, so in this topic I would like to discuss heavily idealized games that you would find as being ideal for its genre. Thus, you could detail what features you think would make up an ideal FPS game or an ideal RPG. In my case, I won't detail a clear-cut genre like an FPS or RTS game but my ideal notion of a pseudo-realistic medieval game.

Warning, long post ahead!

So, first of all I begin my dissertation with the setting of the game. What is "medieval"? This term is probably changeable according to personal preferences but for me, the best medieval setting is from the late 14th Century to the middle-to-late 15th Century, when plate armour was reaching its apex. Thus, my ideal medieval game would be set during the Hundred Years War between France and England, taking place between the years 1383 and 1453 so as to encompass the rise of plate armour and the image that most people associate when hearing about the Middle Ages (i.e. imposing knights armoured in plate armour). The setting should also include intermissions between fighting that happened during the period, periods of peace when the player could engage in tournaments or hunting.

The player's character should be a fictional knight of the period but not actually a French or English knight, rather a foreign knight from lands close-by that were involved in the conflict one way or another. A knight of the Holy Roman Empire would do well and it could also provide the player with some antagonism from "friendly" and hostile knights. In my vision, the game should be split into two stages: the Early Period set between 1383 and 1415 and the Late Period set between 1429 and 1453.

In the first stage the player would play a middle-aged German knight fighting for the English side, with this "campaign" culminating with the battle of Agincourt. Peaceful intermissions should also be included to account for tournaments during the period, and to give the player the opportunity to participate in the Nicopolis Crusade (Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicopolis_crusade) which would feature a battle pitting the player's forces against the Ottoman Empire. Historically, a coalition of forces from almost all of Christendom assembled under the banner of the King of Hungary Sigismund of Luxembourg to expel the Ottomans back into Asia Minor but the expedition failed after the Christians were defeated in battle at Nicopolis. This all happened in the year 1396, during an intermission in the Hundred Years War.

The second stage would feature the initial knight's young son, yet fighting on the French side this time. This would allow the player to witness the French renewal and eventual triumph under the leadership of Joan of Arc and Charles the VII-th, King of France. The campaign should feature battles like the Siege of Orleans and the battle of Patay or the final battle of the war, the battle of Castillon where cannons would be used decisively for the first time, thus symbolizing the downfall of the knight. The player would also be granted the opportunity to fight in the Varna Crusade of 1444, where yet another Christian coalition was defeated by the Ottomans.

Now, for the actual gameplay elements.

Much like Mount & Blade, the game would have two parts. One part would be like a strategy map, but the player wouldn't have the options to move about, rather to recruit mercenaries, recruit ancillaries (like a master of horse to improve your riding), join tournaments, train, buy and sell stuff and receive briefings for the next battle. Compare this, if you would, to the fairly fun and interesting Xbox game Kingdom under Fire: the Crusaders and its sequel.

To detail the certain options the player would have, now. Recruiting mercenaries pretty much speaks for itself and it allows you to have troops of your own that will try to actively follow and defend you in battle, since you are their master after all. Troops that aren't your own won't try to look after you in battle, but rather mind their own business and try to kill enemies without being killed themselves. The player could have a dread or chivalry rating which could change the behaviour of his troops towards him. Henchmen that are pretty scared of you will fight and help you, but they will also generally try to stay out of the way of your wrath. Henchmen that respect and admire your chivalry will put themselves in the way of danger, not only protecting you but also trying to stop any enemies that might try to attack you from behind and tackle you. Ancillaries also speak for themselves, and they could range from masters-at-arms to squires that could help you mount your horse if you are forcefully dismounted. For extra good relations with noblemen of the same faction, you could ask them to give their sons to you as squires. If they do good and become knights themselves (levelling up as it were) then their parents will be proud and they will try to help you in battle if you are in dire straits. If they get killed under your service, then they will be pretty pissed. The consequences are understandable. Surgeon ancillaries could prevent fallen troops from actually dying but being wounded instead, kind of like in Mount & Blade. Joining tournaments also speaks for itself, with options catering for jousts, general melees and individual combat with swords, pollaxes or maces. Training would feature your character fighting training bouts with either your squire, your master-at-arms or simply some of your men who are willing to try you in combat with wooden weapons or practice weapons. Training could work like in San Andreas, the more you train, the more moves you can try in actual battle, since the moves will get ingrained in your subconscious and it will be easier for you to implement them in the heat of battle. I will expand on moves later. Buying and selling is explanatory, but it also helps to increase your respect and renown among your fellow nobles. The more flamboyant your armour is, the more people will turn their heads and ask "who is that stranger?". Pre-battle briefings would consist interactive cutscenes placed in a camp-like area where your lord and master (or you commander) will brief you for battle, telling you of general objectives. I'm speaking of general objectives because the player character is a knight, so he is allowed some lee-way when it comes to orders he receives before battle. And I'm saying interactive cutscenes because these cutscenes would be like dialogues where the player gets to better know his commander.

Now for the combat! Mounted combat should prove to be a very important part of this game, equally important to foot combat and should feature realistic impact physics for both horses and weapons, especially lances which should have limited use and breakability, depending on the force of impact. Generally handling mounted combat as it is in Mount & Blade would be alright in my book, since I'm not out to reinvent the wheel. Now comes foot combat, which should see a few changes, according to the setting of my ideal game.

In foot combat, a number of factors should come into play like for example the ground you are fighting on and the weather. I will explain how these would affect the battle. Now, the foes you will be facing are made up of low-born footmen and higher born knights either on foot or mounted. The common footmen with their poorer quality equipment and sparser armour should be dispatched with mere sword/mace/pollaxe swings as in Mount & Blade. The knights, however, would be much harder to defeat. Instead of a health-bar as commonly seen in most games, the way you could track their strength would be through a stamina-bar. The reason I'm using stamina as a pseudo-health meter for both enemy knights and the player is that they will both the using plate armour, which is virtually sword proof. Thus, instead of a swing from a sword actually damaging your health, it would knock the wind out of you, damaging your stamina and denting your armour. Using this stylized process, you would have to bludgeon an enemy knight with your weapon a few times until his stamina was low enough for you to grapple with him.

Grappling would be handled like in those games where you have to initiate a sequence in which you need to press a number of buttons in the right order. This shouldn't be button-mashing, but the rate at which you need to press the buttons, and the speed at which you have to do so, would be raised according to the enemy you're fighting. Thus, if you're fighting Sir Nobody of Someville, you should have little difficulty in pressing the right sequence of buttons. If you're grappling with the Dauphine of France, however, then things will go much harder for you. According to the time you spend learning moves in training, you should have a wider array of possible finishers to pull of after pressing the right button, and these would range from moves like forcing your sword through your foe's open visor or forcing him to yield by wounding and incapacitating him.

If you make an opponent yield, you can then take him prisoner and sell him for a ransom later, thus earning you renown, money and chivalry points. If you kill your prisoner, you receive renown, dread points and a hefty dose of hate from members of the opposing side, especially relatives of the guy you just killed. In some battles, one of the objectives could be to capture a certain enemy, clearly visible from his heraldry. Of course, as I said, all of the objectives are treated pretty much as bonus objectives since you are knight and thus are above to being simply bossed around. But fulfilling said bonus objectives, such as capturing Marshal Bouccicaut at Agincourt could reap great rewards.

Regarding heraldry, the player could have his own set of heraldic tabard for himself and heraldic barding for his horse. This would make you easier to spot by allies if you are unhorsed and need help but also make you easy to spot by enemies who might be eager to challenge you out of chivalry or simple glory-seeking. As for the actual arms of the player, he could choose them at the beginning of the game and the player in the second campaign could either inherit the same arms from his father or make his own.

So...this is my vision of the ideal medieval game. What do you think?
 

Elenmmare

I'm not sure. I guess for a medieval game, I'd really like to have it more small scale.

The ideal would be something like this:

The combat would have to be realistic- gritty and dirty. This means kicking, biting, hacking, slashing...etc.
Mounted combat would be ok, but I don't necessarily like cavalry.

As for gameplay/story wise, I'd love to have the task of defending a village, say a Welsh one, from Norman invaders.

Imagine this: The character is managed in an RPG like way- you gain levels, but that plays more of a backseat. The character also doesn't gain any physical skill- he's still just as weak, but he may have some more abilities. The main thing to increase would be your reputation.

You would have to manage a village, although the boring things like harvesting..etc could be a backseat. You could launch ambushes, equip your men, send for aid...etc

Graphics wise? Probably something from M&B graphics to Oblivion, although the world would have to be open ended and a seamless map like Oblivion (not for exploring, but for realistic ambushes and real things).

I would definitely love a game like that- fighting for your life against two guardsmen, raiding villages. The climax of the game could be sieging an enemy fortress with around 30 men.

(Yes, I have read Hood :smile:)

 

Agent Griff

Master Knight
M&B
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Your idea sounds interesting as well. I could envision it being released alongside my game in something like a "battle-chest" edition featuring the entire spectrum of war, from low-scale skirmishes to bloody large scale battles with cavalry, infantry and missile troops.

To detail my original idea further, morale would also play a big part in battles. As I said, troops wouldn't charge blindly in battle but would care for their own safety first. Thus, if the common foot-soldiers see that the battle is being lost and that their heavy knights are being systematically unhorsed and slain or captured then they will run away, and most of the cowardly nobles will follow suit. What begins as a trickle, with a few soldiers wavering, soon turns into a flood with whole companies fleeing the field. When a rout actually begins, that is when the player can mount his horse and ride among his fleeing enemies, cutting them down left and right if he feels like it or capturing fleeing noblemen from the enemy side. Of course, the fall of the enemy leader (or the leader of your forces) would prove fatal for morale, as was shown whenever a leader fell in battle.

And battle would be gritty and bloody, with a nice set of bloody finishers and abilities the player can employ if he trains enough for them. Thus, to give an example, you could train half-swording during training sessions and this would give you the ability to half-sword in battle, giving you greater versatility when fighting armoured foes. Armours should also get stained by blood and/or dirt during a fierce battle. Also, as I've said, the weather and terrain will have an influence on the stamina of both horse and rider. Thus, when the French knights are advancing on a muddy field made worse by the onset of their mounted knights, they will get bogged down in their heavier armour and simply moving around will be a considerable drain upon their stamina. This would make them more vulnerable to lightly armoured troops like archers or regular foot-soldiers. The player can equip himself in kind with lighter armour if he knows that the weather won't be on the side of the heavily armoured knight but rather on the side of the lithe footman.

Also, certain weapons will be better for draining the stamina of opposing knights than others, like maces for example which are pure bludgeoning tools and good for concussing your opponents. Swords can be good bludgeoning tools as well, but the damage dealt to the enemy probably equals the damage your sword takes during combat. If you manage to hit an opposing knight while charging with your lance and unhorse him, then that will drain all his stamina and leave vulnerable for either killing or capturing. Your lance could also kill your opponent in one blow, but that depends on your luck and how powerful the collision was.

And in pre-battle briefings (featuring commanders and major knights) the player could also have a say in tactics, as these would be discussed prior to battle. If the player takes a certain stance on the way the battle should progress, then he can influence other nobles if his renown is high enough. Renown is improved by capturing or otherwise defeating enemy knights in battle or in tournaments. Your equipment also improves your renown since, the more expensive and decorated your armour is, the greater the renown bonus received therein. Thus, if you have a plain and unadorned set of armour, you won't be looked upon very highly. If, however, you have a coloured and etched set of armour with a flashy crest on your helmet then you will certainly turn a lot of noble heads.
 

Sulibres

Squire
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If you want gritty fighting. Try "Condemned" and "Condemned 2: Bloodshot". My brother is playing it and I doubt I've ever seen AI fight with such adrenaline.
 

Elenmmare

Nah, its not so much that I want gritty combat, but I want realistic medieval fighting as infantrymen.
 

Instag0

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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My ideal game would essentially be Mount&Blade with better animations, graphics, and sounds. :p
 

mrcrotch

Master Knight
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MMOZG. The Z stands for Zombie. :smile:

It's basically a graphical version of Urban Dead, except with a few changes.

Each server lasts a few weeks, days etc. depends on the server. People join the server when it starts and after a time limit nobody else can join. The map will would be quite large holding a large town, with police stations etc., foresty area, surrounding villages and possibly an army base. Let's say it would take 30 minutes to get from one end of the map to the other wile running. So most people start of in the town. Around 70% start off in this town, and around 20% start of in the surrounding villages and hamlets, 5% start off in the army base. The other 5% are zombies, which would be kinda like 28 Days Later "zombies", which means they'll be fast. Slow zombies wouldn't be very exciting.
This process will be random, meaning that some people may start of in the army base, and will be at a immediate advantage, where as some players may just be normal civilians in the town at the time of the outbrake. The classes are kinda like Urban dead minus the scientist people.

There will be rest points around the map. As the game may go on for a few days, and since the players won't be able to be on 24/7, there will be rest points. A person has to reach a rest point to log off the game and will be safe there until they log on. There will be different rest points for zombies and humans, and only zombies can see zombie rest points and only human can see human rest points.


As said, when the players join they will be given a class at random. The type of class determines what they player will start the game with. Police men will have the police gear, soldiers have the heavier weapons and so on. Each player has a stamina and health bar and the stamina bar will go down when the person is running, and will go down faster when they have heavier gear with them.
When the health bar reaches zero the person will die and turn to a zombie.

Zombies are different as they don't have an inventory and don't have the ability to use any items, but have unlimited stamina and so are able to sprint without getting tired. When zombies die they are sent back to the nearest zombie rest point.

Weapons are the usual. A combination of melee weapons and firearms. With firearms more difficult to obtain.

Theres probably more I could write but that's the gist of it.

 

Agent Griff

Master Knight
M&B
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I meant more commercial zombie games, like Dead Rising or that game where the player himself is a zombie. Rebel without a pulse I believe it's called.
 

Pjoo

Master Knight
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Realistic combat system with mounts(pretty much like M&B, just some tweaks in f.ex. movement in melee combat and damage system).
MMO(RPG), you can buy your own gear, but no levels. Crafting would be time consuming process and it would require expirience from person crafting instead of character. For example player has to decide how much wood he puts to forge and how long he will warm the material he is forging. Raw materials can be ruined by inexpirienced smith. Things like farming(or woodcutting or mining) that required lots of work but no brain(sowing, plowing, reaping) can be done by npcs who can be hired, but player has to do management, what to plant for example. Crafts like woodcrafting would require IRL knowledge about wood strenghts and pliancies ect. There should be some kind of Economy system too, trading would be done through merchant NPCs, but nothing just spawns into their inventory(well maybe some tools), people have to sell stuff to merchants and prices would be according to supply and the demand, NPC making some profit. And you have to eat to stay alive!
Soldiers in game are actually players, and other players can be hired to fight for you and so on. Skill needed in fighting is ability to block attacks and attack to right directions, making use of adrealine rush and creative use of shield bash or striking with pommel, missile weapons might require calculating angles and such. No morale, but death penalties would be kinda harsh(money or time). Also formations ect. would be very important. Unorganized force isn't really efficient in Mount&Blade either. In the world there would be much of "open" space you could occupy and built to. I think AoC has system something like this.
Wars could range from small skirmishes to huge field battles(It's "ideal" game, don't give me any crap that no system can run 50k player controlled characters at the same time in same area) to guerrilla warfare. And sieges! Top tier items in game would be from 15th century Europe, but world woundn't be real. Only 1st/3rd person, no "strategical map".

Simulator-like game that combines strategical, tactical and fighting skills, along with need of IRL knowledge and good organisation. I would be really interested in seeing if people can actually build working kingdoms instead of just slaughtering each other ^^
 

Silver

Baron
M&BWBWF&S
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They tried one of those parts when they tested The agency, having huge battles with only player-controlled characters. Up to a hundred on each side, perhaps more, can't remember the exact figures. The problem wasn't that the system couldn't handle it, but that it was extremely boring and involved so much micro-management it would take days to play out well.
 

yellowpaco

Sergeant at Arms
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Trapped in a island paradise...with mercenaries with guns..sound familiar to you all no?  :lol:
                                                  zombies

Edit:Wow there actually is a game being made for this!  :razz:
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Island