All that gets considered in how much you pay.
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Upkeep for mounted troops
- Thread starter Fogmind
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We can use the Steward perks to level up troops. We drop armor and weapons in exchange for experience to troops. I just feel it kind of makes it look like, we gave them armor and they upgraded.
I think the troops should need far more experience to level. Because tier 4+ is so much better than everything before them. It would also make it more fun for me, to try and keep them alive, so they can level. Now its too easy to level. I also don't like the Steward perks making it easier, so I never use them.
It could be that if playing on very easy it should stay as is and the higher difficulty settings would make it harder to level troops?
I think the troops should need far more experience to level. Because tier 4+ is so much better than everything before them. It would also make it more fun for me, to try and keep them alive, so they can level. Now its too easy to level. I also don't like the Steward perks making it easier, so I never use them.
It could be that if playing on very easy it should stay as is and the higher difficulty settings would make it harder to level troops?
Yes, it gets considered but you can still pay and overcome any objections.
I am saying some Clans should never join not matter how much money you offer while other Clans do not require any money at all to join- only influence + alignment.
That also gives more room for Roguery where assassinations of Clan leaders to bring new leaders to power with a different alignment might matter.
At the end of the day though, right now the only mechanism to conquer the map is constantly executing and buying clans since parties in a Clan without a single fief can constantly recruit and raid for years.
Simply making it take more grind to complete a map conquest is just bad design though. Once a player has 1/3 of the map in their aligned kingdom, the other kingdoms should form 2 alliances representing roughly 1/3 each of the map and when the player has conquered 80% of the map, the remaining non-ruler clans will switch sides so the player will only have to finished off the ruling clans to complete the map rather than playing hours longer to accomplish the same thing by heavy grind.
Realistically there would be rebellions or something else to increase difficulty but I think most players would hate that and it also wouldn't make sense in the average campaign timeline where there is no succession crisis and be seen as simply increased grind for no good reason.
Sure, it's a choice. Obviously we're speculating on balancing a feature we won't see, but I'm just talking about having horse-heavy parties have to plan logistics better to balance with speed. I have zero tradeoffs going all horse troops,.and we're faster on the plain and in the field? It's a bit much.
Workshops & caravans take money upfront, but are hit or miss. Horses have only advantages. /shrug
Earth Dragon
Sergeant
I broke down exactly how it works. If I didn't use the community accepted phrasing or the exact game coding order then I apologize, but again, I explained what I meant in the post. So there is no point dissecting what you thought was wrong and replying to ONLY that line.
Earth Dragon
Sergeant
And this is highlighting why it's silly that you BOTH get the salvaged equipment and your troops don't need you to give them equipment to upgrade.
It should have been one or the other. Either the troops are salvaging the equipment, and we're calling it a day as to where they got their stuff (traded and fixed armor while you were waiting in town) or you are obligated to fork it over when you are upgrading and need to keep an armory. Shallow the price curve and add in some sort of requirement for higher tier armors so you don't equip Tier 6 stuff day 2.
But ultimately, that's why the economy never got fully ironed out (it's not AS bad as some try to make it, as this supposed to be a dedicated trading game, and what is there is functional). As discussed, equipment sales from a few battles fully funds your kingdom. If that wasn't there, this would immediately start to shift to a completely different game, or at least how the players approached it and what they were demanding throughout EA
Oh no, you're completely right. It is just a lot of people make suggestions and don't even know how stuff is interconnected. Players have lots of carrying capacity, in general, because players roll around with lots of horses while food is plentiful and easy to purchase. TW has to be generous with carriage and food supplies because the AI is bound by the same system but they don't plan ahead or hoard the way players do. At most, they do like ten days's worth when intending to siege a settlement.
I think the only unknown, to us, is whether if we crank up feed-horse-rate, would the AI notice their consumption, and change how much 10 days is.
Yes, systemic collapse is to be avoided ;-]
I think that while needing to give your troops equipment would be more immersive, it would also be tedious (I'm imagining a system where we would need 1 piece of same tier chest armour as the tier we want to upgrade to per soldier, similar to how we use horses to upgrade into cavalry troops). I agree that equipment prices, especially at higher tiers are too expensive while at the same time, money becomes too easy to come by after a certain point.
I think a simpler middle ground "solution" would be for example decreasing the amount of battle loot gained by 1% for every x number of (non companion and family member) troop in your party with a minimum value of 10-20% or something that only applies to the player. We can then have a highlighted red text at the bottom of the looting screen after battle that says something along the lines of "your 50/100/150/200 etc. troops have taken 50% of the battle loot" and so on. This band-aid "solution", along with an item price decrease across the board (but especially at higher tiers) would theoretically make money more useful throughout the game, decrease the economic dependency on fighting for the playee while also keeping the early game loot economy similar to its current rate. It would also make running with smaller parties a more logical gameplay option and gives the player a reason for travelling as a solo party rather than an army with your clan parties at all times (other than moving faster on the world map). Although I'm sure that my suggestion would also result in many issues that I haven't even thought of.
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Earth Dragon
Sergeant
I feel that if you were to drop item prices, there would have to be some other limiting factor. It's not unreasonable that Merchants would be selective as to who they sold some of their items to. From not wanting to sell to possible bandits, enemies, or the local lord reserving High tier items to family and friends, there could be plenty of restrictions placed. In addition, absorption rate of equipment could increase. That Cataphract or Legionary doesn't let that nice set of armor sit on the market for too long sort of thing.
As a baseline in restrictions if you shallowed the price curve, I would probably do close to the following:
Clans with a Criminal Rating are barred from purchasing weapons, unless they had 20 relationship per tier. (so tier 0 still available if positive, tier 1 available at 20+, Tier 2 at 40+ etc.)
Tier 0 Clans are limited to Tier 3 and below equipment. (Maybe 2)
Tier 1+ Clans need a Positive relationship with town Merchant and then they can purchase up to Tier 4.
Tier 2+ Clans apart of the Kingdom with a positive relationship with a Merchant in that town can purchase up to Tier 5.
Tier 6 Equipment requires you to have a positive relationship with a Merchant in addition to being the town owner OR have a 50+ relationship with the Town owner and be at least a Tier 3 clan. This would include you being the ruling Clan. If there was a way for you to just not even see it if the requirements weren't met, that would be best. Plenty of local lords had private Smiths who didn't advertise what wares were being made. This could also come with a Kingdom policy to not bar Tier 6 equipment.
All salvaged Equipment is of course free game. I would also adjust the AI code to allow AI Lords to buy up items they wanted if it was of their culture
It's also little things like this, requiring higher relationship to get access to certain things, that then makes marrying off your daughters, playing board games, and other activities that have been deemed "useless" more useful. There's a Smithy in Ortysia I want access to and the town is already apart of the Kingdom. wedding a daughter into the family becomes potentially useful to pick threw the Cataphract Armor that going in and out of the joint.
As a baseline in restrictions if you shallowed the price curve, I would probably do close to the following:
Clans with a Criminal Rating are barred from purchasing weapons, unless they had 20 relationship per tier. (so tier 0 still available if positive, tier 1 available at 20+, Tier 2 at 40+ etc.)
Tier 0 Clans are limited to Tier 3 and below equipment. (Maybe 2)
Tier 1+ Clans need a Positive relationship with town Merchant and then they can purchase up to Tier 4.
Tier 2+ Clans apart of the Kingdom with a positive relationship with a Merchant in that town can purchase up to Tier 5.
Tier 6 Equipment requires you to have a positive relationship with a Merchant in addition to being the town owner OR have a 50+ relationship with the Town owner and be at least a Tier 3 clan. This would include you being the ruling Clan. If there was a way for you to just not even see it if the requirements weren't met, that would be best. Plenty of local lords had private Smiths who didn't advertise what wares were being made. This could also come with a Kingdom policy to not bar Tier 6 equipment.
All salvaged Equipment is of course free game. I would also adjust the AI code to allow AI Lords to buy up items they wanted if it was of their culture
It's also little things like this, requiring higher relationship to get access to certain things, that then makes marrying off your daughters, playing board games, and other activities that have been deemed "useless" more useful. There's a Smithy in Ortysia I want access to and the town is already apart of the Kingdom. wedding a daughter into the family becomes potentially useful to pick threw the Cataphract Armor that going in and out of the joint.
That is an interesting idea- if Lord party sizes also depended a bit more on clan tier- when every other party is size 150 or more in the late campaign, travelling with less than 30 becomes an issue as even when you can defeat 150 with 30, at least half or more will be dead/wounded and means you can only fight a single battle before having to run away to restock troops.
I would like some Lords to have 200+ parties but it seems the major factions ALL get to that size once a kingdom or two is eliminated. Stewardship being the only limit on party size is probably not enough. Clan Tier, Stewardship, and Leadership all factoring into party size might work better with some reasons to keep small party other than speed such as loot or being able to train up troops faster in smaller parties might work better.
I think that most AI party sizes being around 150 or so men is caused due to almost all clans (except basically rebel clans that managed to survive and newly promoted companion clans) reaching tier 5 or 6 in a couple of years. If I understand what you're saying correctly, you want clan parties fielding 150-200 men, or high number of troops in general to be something rare. But it seems to me that AI clans being able to rank up in a few years and getting increased party size as a result is the main culprit of it being rather common.
If anything, maybe AI clans should rank up slower/get less renown per battle and/or clans should naturally die out (and maybe landless ones disappear after a time?) much more often during the course of the game, be it through death in battle, old age or execution, while also being replaced by newer and less renowned clans like rebel clans and promoted companion clans.
Earth Dragon
Sergeant
yeah, I'm a little confused too on what is meant by spreading out party size limit. That is one of the best parts of the skill tree: the most vital part of the game (party size) is spread out across all major categories. Vigor, Cunning, and Endurance all have sprinklings of party size increases, so a Lord that is a great sword fighter as there best strength still has gets some boosts.
Each category gives +5 or +10 party size which is not nothing, especially when stacked together and ontop of sterwardship but it is pretty easy to get to party size 250+ relatively quickly, for a few months to a year that party size will be larger than most AI parties but then the AI aside from minor clans catches up and every battle becomes a fight between armies even if you have not gathered an army.
To me it increases the grind and lowers the fun.
