The new damage of ranged weapons. *(Crossbow)

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Hagaron

Hagaron

Regular
Old Guard
So, Today I noticed they reduced the damage of the crossbow, shooting someone in the chest does most likely almost the same damage which makes it worth more aiming for which doesn't make much sense, thinking logically you should get more damage by aiming for the head for example:

Back in the old day: (4.4)
Mail coif < Siege Crossbow = Insta kill.
Now (4.5)
Mail coif > Siege Crossbow = A bolt sticking out of his eye.
I have been using the siege/heavy crossbow for the past four years day in day out in Persistent World  which forced me to make this topic, for justice of the crossbow fanatic club and all kind of crossbow fetish.. people all around the world.

This new update didn't allow me to kill someone with a single shot, which always made sense when you think about it. Shooting someone with an helmet without guard resulted into an insta dead instead of a bolt sticking out of their ear, this new update made me leave Persistent World, simply because I needed the old damage system. (Roleplaying as an assassin for the past four years, so I needed those insta headshots)
Now the Warbow almost does the same damage against plated armor as the crossbow does (as far as I'm aware)


I hope you'll change your mind and come back with the old system of ranged damage when updating Persistent World, Because I'm sure you'll update it after this.. update.. because of the.. complaints?

So please, bring back the old damage stystem *(I have no idea how it has all been set up)

 
You are wrong, since there have been no changes to weapon stats or combat calculations since version 4.4.0: you can see for yourself on github here, with only resource and food price changes, breakable lance and more banners: https://github.com/vornne/pw_module_system/compare/4.4.0...4.5.0#diff-9
I list every noticeable change done to PW in the post each release, skipping some internal syntax or utility changes only affecting modders.

A way you might be deceived is by a server hoster "unlawfully" changing item stats server side (incompatible changes between server and clients like that are expressly prohibited by the module system usage conditions), increasing the damage server side for 4.4 but leaving the correct PW values for 4.5. To change items, people must release a differently named sub mod; I've heard of server hosters flouting the rules, but I don't have time to try police all users around the world.
 
It's entirely possible that one of the script sets commonly passed around contains a damage value change.

You may have just hit a target with full double HP and a class with more hitpoints than average. There's plenty of circumstances in the Warband damage calculation that could result in less damage, including velocity in any direction or range, or different bolts. Try setting up a test environment on a local server with a friend to see if you can replicate it under default PW settings.
 
I know that on Avalon we had changed the statistics of the Archer and Crossbowman class to make them more powerful, mostly speed but a little damage buff as well, they could have nerfed them?

As Splint said it was most likely double HP and the guy ate food and slept to get full full HP.

Now you can practice being an even better assassin and getting 2 headshots in a row to kill someone!  I've only played once since the update and I went about randoming with a Siege Crossbow and regular bolts and was able to get 1 hit headshots on some tins however.
 
Froi said:
I know that on Avalon we had changed the statistics of the Archer and Crossbowman class to make them more powerful, mostly speed but a little damage buff as well, they could have nerfed them?

As Splint said it was most likely double HP and the guy ate food and slept to get full full HP.

Now you can practice being an even better assassin and getting 2 headshots in a row to kill someone!  I've only played once since the update and I went about randoming with a Siege Crossbow and regular bolts and was able to get 1 hit headshots on some tins however.
Click to expand...


I noticed that a headshot on a naked dude didn't work with a siege xbow, but a shot in his hearth did more dammage. Anyway's I think we all hope this gets fixed by the server owner soon.
 
Today I shot someone that had 80%  HP in the head, he had a +14 helmet, still he survived.
Our server owner didn't touch anything since the last update.
 
Froi said:
Then learn how to stab people :razz:
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with stabbing, I think you messed up something within the.. scripts? No idea how to call it, can you maybe check it again? Because nothing about the health system on our server was changed at all, and I'm pretty sure noone can survive a siege crossbow to the head without a helmet or a 14+ helmet.
 
Froi said:
Splintert said:
...the other by kids who just want to run people over with their invincible horse all day.
Click to expand...
invincible horse < pike
Click to expand...

Not at all. A pike can stop a heavy horse once, but that doesn't matter because the rider doesn't feel threatened enough to either turn around or be incapable of fighting. The cavalry man will simply swing his sword from his horse and kill the mostly defenseless pikeman because his pike is now useless. It really doesn't matter how many times a pikeman stabs a double-health-charger because the pikeman will be dead before the horse is. Even with multiple pikes involved.

With regular Native HP values, the horseman cannot safely charge a pikeman without risking his horse. This gives the pikeman defensive advantage, as it should, but the pike is still completely useless offensively against a cavalryman who can simply ride around you forever. That's the idea, balance, not making horses useless. Native HP values simply reaffirms the intended disadvantages that are inherent with cavalry: weakness in close quarters and against long spears.
 
I realize you have a lot of experience killing defenseless or trash people whilst wearing tin armor and riding around on chargers in your little Commoner Army, but if you manage to stop a horse with a pike, then finishing off the rider is relatively easy provided you're not trash at the game.  Even easier if you have one or two friends helping you do it. 

All having higher powered cavalry does is make people who are not rich enough to afford a tin can horse and tin armor work together in order to achieve their goal of stabbing you until you die.  If you have 3-4 pikeman and maybe 1 guy with a great sword stationed in a choke point, with maybe 2 archers behind them, cavalry becomes pretty useless.

 
There's no point on discussing the horse thing. They're fine as they are now. They were never intended to have double (Actually it's more than the double) health and Vornne, the current main developer, doesn't want them to be like before, and his decisions are final and binding, for he is the developer now and has been for quite a very long time.
 
Froi said:
I realize you have a lot of experience killing defenseless or trash people whilst wearing tin armor and riding around on chargers in your little Commoner Army, but if you manage to stop a horse with a pike, then finishing off the rider is relatively easy provided you're not trash at the game.  Even easier if you have one or two friends helping you do it. 

All having higher powered cavalry does is make people who are not rich enough to afford a tin can horse and tin armor work together in order to achieve their goal of stabbing you until you die.  If you have 3-4 pikeman and maybe 1 guy with a great sword stationed in a choke point, with maybe 2 archers behind them, cavalry becomes pretty useless.
Click to expand...

I don't really have much experience killing defenseless people in tin armour because I don't attack defenseless people. How do you think we get the tin armour? But my play habits aren't particularly relevant to a discussion about the balance of heavy cavalry.

I don't see how saying that having 10 guys holding a chokepoint makes cavalry useless is a valid argument at all. Having 10 guys holding a chokepoint makes infantry useless too, but no one's arguing for an infantry buff.

The point of the matter is that reducing cavalry health positions cavalry right where it should be in terms of balance. It has advantages like speed and high alpha damage, and disadvantages like low utility and vulnerability to defensive positions. When they have double HP, they maintain the advantages but the disadvantages become much less prevalent as the horses are able to tank so much damage. This doesn't include effects on other classes for example reduced archery effectiveness because the arrows cannot effectively dehorse cavalry in time, and infantry being simply too slow to kill horses even when at a huge advantage with pikes.
 
For real, lets stop the cav bull**** it's fine atm. But i'm sure there's indeed something wrong with the dammage system with the xbow. For real, no one can ever survive a headshot from a siege xbow when you have a ******** kettle hat. I already had a talk with the server owner and he didn't change anything.
 
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