The Jutes of the Isle of Wight and South Hampshire

[Dansk viking]

So, I've been thinking to bring this up for a while. (And I'm aware that the modding-team will probably not address this issue now). All the same,

Where have the Jutes of the English southern coast gone? (below: Late 6th century)

From the Jutes are descended the people of Kent, and of the Isle of Wight, and those also in the province of the West-Saxons who are to this day called Jutes, seated opposite to the Isle of Wight.

Most difficult of all the racial questions that vex the students of this period is the problem of the Jutes. It is known that Kent was different. Indeed the difference of Kent from the rest of England is a constant theme of English social history. Kent was also conscious of its individuality, and in historic times used a Jutish ancestry to explain it. Other groups felt the same difference, and reached the same conclusion about their origin. Bede tells of Jutes in the Isle of Wight and South Hampshire. Archaeologists confirm the similarities in grave-finds suggest affinity to Kent in these districts, and that the Meon Valley and the Isle of Wight probably represent areas of secondary settlement from a Kentish base. As late as the twelfth century Florence of Worcester (sub anno 1100) refers to the New Forest which in the tongue of the English is called Ytene, i.e. 'Jutish' or 'of the Jutes'.

How the Isle of Wight received Christian inhabitants, and two royal youths of that island were killed immediately after baptism. [ 686.]

After Cædwalla had possessed himself of the kingdom of the Gewissæ, he also took the Isle of Wight, which till then was entirely given over to idolatry, and by cruel slaughter endeavoured to destroy all the inhabitants thereof, and to place in their stead people from his own province; having bound himself by a vow, though he was not yet, as is reported, regenerated in Christ, to give the fourth part of the land, and of the booty, to our Lord, if he took the island, which he performed by giving the same for our Lord to the use of Bishop Wilfrid, who happened at the time to have accidentally come thither out of his own nation. The measure of that island, according to the computation of the English, is of twelve hundred families, and accordingly the bishop had given him land of three hundred families. The part which he received, he committed to one of his clerks called Bernwin, who was his sister’s son, assigning him a priest, whose name was Hiddila, who might administer the word and baptism of salvation to all that would be saved.

Here I think it ought not to be omitted that the first fruits of the natives of that island who, by believing, secured their salvation, were two royal youths, brothers to Arwald, king of the island, who were honoured by the particular grace of God. For when the enemy approached, they made their escape out of the island, and passed over into the neighbouring province of the Jutes; where, being conducted to the place called At the Stone, as they thought to be concealed from the victorious king, they were betrayed and ordered to be killed. This being made known to a certain abbat and priest, whose name was Cynebert, who had a monastery not far from thence, at a place called Reodford, that is, the Ford of Reeds, he came to the king, who then lay privately in those parts, to be cured of the wounds which he had received whilst he was fighting in the Isle of Wight, and begged of him that if the lads must inevitably be killed, he might be allowed first to instruct them in the mysteries of the faith. The king consented, and the bishop having taught them the word of truth, and cleansed their souls by baptism, made the entrance into the kingdom of heaven sure to them. Then the executioner being at hand, they joyfully underwent the temporal death, through which they did not doubt they were to pass to the life of the soul, which is everlasting. Thus, after all the provinces of the island of Britain had embraced the faith of Christ, the Isle of Wight also received the same; yet being under the affliction of foreign subjection, no man there received the ministry, or rank of a bishop, before Daniel, who is now bishop of the West Saxons.

The island is situated opposite the division between the South Saxons and the Gewissæ, being separated from it by a sea, three miles over, which is called Solente. In this narrow sea, the two tides of the ocean, which flow round Britain from the immense northern ocean, daily meet and oppose one another beyond the mouth of the river Homelea, which runs into that narrow sea, from the lands of the Jutes, which belong to the country of the Gewissæ; after this meeting and struggling together of the two seas, they return into the ocean from whence they come.

Currently the only settlement in this area is Portsmouth, which at present only yields Saxon troops. I'd like to be able to (like with the Frisians in other areas) sometimes get Jutish troops. Also, I really think the Isle of Wight deserves a castle, Wihtwarasburgh - and perhaps have Portsmouth as the village belonging to that castle or indeed a new, all Jutish village.

Dansk viking

 

[Mkhedari]

Interesting stuff!

Well, you seem to be aware that there are two Jutish factions (Cantware and the Gewissæ).  These factions also have Jutish troops.  But are you saying you can't recruit Jutes from Jutish villages?  I have noticed that once, when I recruited some villagers in the souteast (can't remember exactly where), I got Fresena.  But I've also come across Jutish troops held captive by bandit parties, and I've recruited them.  So where did these Jutes come from, if they can't be recruited?  I guess Jute lords automatically recruit Jutes somehow despite this, and when they or their caravans or patrols get beaten by bandits, that's where the prisoners come from.

I would really like a settlement on Wight, too.  I love setting up bases on islands and launching naval raids from them, so this would be perfect.

 

[Dansk viking]

Actually the Gewissæ is a Saxon faction - they were to develop into Wessex. What I'm saying is that I want Jutes present in the Soth Hampshire and Isle of Wight area. You can, in the Jutish kingdom of Kent, recruit Jutes - but you cannot recruit Jutes in Portsmouth, a village that is in the area of Jutish settlement. What I would like to see is the availability of Jutish recruits from this area (just like the randomly available Frisian recruits in some Sussex and Essex villages). And yes, Wight would be perfect - and I think, at least, there should be an all Jutish village on the island - if not ultimately a proper castle - and indeed perhaps the smallest faction of the entire campaign map - the Wihtwaras?

If I knew how to do it properly, I would make the following, not very drastic changes:
- Randomly chosen Saxon or Jutish recruits from Portsmouth.
- A castle (ruined Roman walls patched with oak palisade), Wihtwarasburh, on the Isle of Wight - belonging to the Gewissæ.1
- Additionally (or alternatively instead of a castle), a Jutish village could be placed on Wight. (Finding an etymologically suitable village could be attempted from this map with the help of the Domesday Book.)

1 The mentioning of Stuff and Wihtgar as kinsmen of Cerdic, indicates that they might have been Saxons rather than Jutish - or at least under the dominion of the Gewissæ, being granted the island as a fief. The question remains though, why the inhabitants of the Island and the surrounding area would subsequently be designated as Jutes. Perhaps the 'kinsmen' of Cerdic were Jutish - if not, the population could still be Jutish despite having Saxon rulers. The fact that we know nothing of the rulers of the islands from 534 to 686 strongly suggests that no faction could be placed there. We don't know whether 'Arwald' is related to Stuff and Wihtgar - he might be chosen by his own people (looking at his name), being a Jutish pagan. The question of Arwald, though, is not of import for the current discussion as his reign was after the start of the Brytenwalda-mod.

 

[Dansk viking]

So, could anyone point in the direction of a simple solution?
I'd like to be able to recruit both Jutish and Saxon troops in Portsmouth - and I've got no prior experience of modding the M&B series.

 

[Idibil]

So, could anyone point in the direction of a simple solution?
I'd like to be able to recruit both Jutish and Saxon troops in Portsmouth - and I've got no prior experience of modding the M&B series.

I amnt sure like do this in txt files, sorry.
For frisens, we used a script that add both (saxons and frisens) or only frisens to some villages. I imagine you could do something similar in python files, but you will need wait brytenwalda module system.