Parties are Useless: Keep Getting Wiped Out Despite Levels [e1.4.3 beta]

[LordOfAll]

VERY FRUSTRATED with creating 'Parties' and the total lack of success with them in confrontations with enemy.
First, Parties are limited just about 100 troops.

But, even if I make ALL the party members top-tier troops with very good mix of infantry, archers, and calvary they get wiped out by even minor clans. Very often in a few short game-minutes of being created.

What's more, not only do I have absolutely NO CONTROL over these incidents, I have no idea what transpired in the battles. i.e. " Naomi No-Name has been captured by Useless of the Lake Rats; 99 vs 180." (Which, by the way, I could wipe out those Lake Rats with 99 had I been leading.)

I need to know what the game-rules are here. The AI can never fight in these simulations like I can, so I very rarely auto-resolve battles with Major or Minor Clans.

I am frustrated with consistently losing top-tier troops in clan parties.

 

[sabatonsky]

(Which, by the way, I could wipe out those Lake Rats with 99 had I been leading.)

The thing is that, for me at least: i play at 1/3 dmg on everything. Yes, yes, im a noob and a casual player, but i like it. That means that the dmg is reduced. but the way i see it is that its reduced only when im in direct combat. therefore:
If you can beat those 180, that means you have the damage to frienly troops, to your troops and to yourself set up low. And your party does not win against them, cause the reduced dmg does not apply to them. And, well... 99vs180 is almost 1:2.... Nec Hercules contra plures, my friend.

 

[Lord of Banners]

VERY FRUSTRATED with creating 'Parties' and the total lack of success with them in confrontations with enemy.
First, Parties are limited just about 100 troops.

But, even if I make ALL the party members top-tier troops with very good mix of infantry, archers, and calvary they get wiped out by even minor clans. Very often in a few short game-minutes of being created.

What's more, not only do I have absolutely NO CONTROL over these incidents, I have no idea what transpired in the battles. i.e. " Naomi No-Name has been captured by Useless of the Lake Rats; 99 vs 180." (Which, by the way, I could wipe out those Lake Rats with 99 had I been leading.)

I need to know what the game-rules are here. The AI can never fight in these simulations like I can, so I very rarely auto-resolve battles with Major or Minor Clans.

I am frustrated with consistently losing top-tier troops in clan parties.

Parties Probably use the same auto resolve mechanics as the rest of the game which seems to take troop quality into account. I do know giving parties troops is worthless because they will ditch good troops you give them if it messes with what the AI consider a good ratio of troop types. I also think that ratio is affected by culture.

make sure whoeveryou use to lead parties has good tactics skill, and put their level up points into stewardship so they can carry more men. Outside that I just use them for free armies.

Edit: and yeah I agree it’s frustrating we can’t control parties or improve them in other ways. Here’s tohoping that changes soon!

 

[Apocal]

I need to know what the game-rules are here. The AI can never fight in these simulations like I can, so I very rarely auto-resolve battles with Major or Minor Clans.

Basically, Tactics skill's passive bonus is an advantage in autoresolve. Minor faction party leaders generally have 120 Tactics(a few have 140) which translates to an advantage of 12 or 14%. It might actually be much larger than that in terms of practical impact, I have not dug into that particular code for details. Additionally, your clan parties can get bigger than 100, but only if the party leader levels up their stewardship and/or you raise your clan tier.

The best way to handle clan parties is to simply form an army with them; they cost zero influence to call and zero influence to increase cohesion. You can use them as meatshields during a siege assault or to provide a cheap screen against javelin cavalry and horse archers. You can also use them to game the recruit system in your favor: AI lords dig two levels deeper than they should be able too, meaning you can drag your clan-only army around to villages, strip mine some of the high-tier but unaccessible units via your companions then inspect their troop to take them into your own party.

 

[Lord of Banners]

Basically, Tactics skill's passive bonus is an advantage in autoresolve. Minor faction party leaders generally have 120 Tactics(a few have 140) which translates to an advantage of 12 or 14%. It might actually be much larger than that in terms of practical impact, I have not dug into that particular code for details. Additionally, your clan parties can get bigger than 100, but only if the party leader levels up their stewardship and/or you raise your clan tier.

The best way to handle clan parties is to simply form an army with them; they cost zero influence to call and zero influence to increase cohesion. You can use them as meatshields during a siege assault or to provide a cheap screen against javelin cavalry and horse archers. You can also use them to game the recruit system in your favor: AI lords dig two levels deeper than they should be able too, meaning you can drag your clan-only army around to villages, strip mine some of the high-tier but unaccessible units via your companions then inspect their troop to take them into your own party.

That’s smart to use your parties to get better troops never thought of that. I like nuking armies I don’t want to fight with my parties. Just disband armies near a smallish force and wait a few seconds. Better than auto resolving and losing a high tier unit.

 

[LordOfAll]

Ah, Yes. Well, I do play at the moment on the 1/3 damage. I have played on the elevated damage and noticed that the enemy will not route very easily.
However, I did not know that the party 'auto resolve' would not adhere to the same rules, so that would explain a lot.
It would be better <?> if the combat damage was consistent across all encounters.
However the comments here are very helpful and explain a lot.
I do whenever possible form an army with the clan parties and that was my first experience with using them.
My post came immediately after losing a full party of absolute top-tier troops which were a good mix of troop types that I myself had cultivated and then transferred to a party and then 'POOF!' they were owned by the Lake Rats!
Thanks guys for the valuable info. I will need to revise my strategy here.

 

[Tommy121]

Gave up on having parties as all the awesome troops i gave them were wasted. Then i let them build up their armies themselves (if they survived) only to notice when inspecting their troops after YEARS they still had absolute crap. Totally pointless until you get to clan level 4, have your own kingdom and need cannon fodder.

 

[hruza]

99 vs 180

You would loose that battle in the auto resolve as well.

 

[LordOfAll]

Yes to all ... guys, I would like to see an implementation for the 'Parties' with some AI like that in the mod 'Improved Garrisons' where the AI takes over recruiting and updating garrison troops and also supplies a recruiter and roving garrison soldiers out in the fief.
Also, 'Party AI Overhaul and Commands' that gives a lot of options for orders concerning parties under the control of companions.
Both of these mods have been updated for 1.4.3

 

[Tommy121]

Yes to all ... guys, I would like to see an implementation for the 'Parties' with some AI like that in the mod 'Improved Garrisons' where the AI takes over recruiting and updating garrison troops and also supplies a recruiter and roving garrison soldiers out in the fief.
Also, 'Party AI Overhaul and Commands' that gives a lot of options for orders concerning parties under the control of companions.
Both of these mods have been updated for 1.4.3

Just having them recruit for you or having them patrol your fiefs would be a start. Instead of suiciding against armies twice their size.

 

[benefactr]

You pretty much need to put them in your army so you can take care of them when at war with others. When not at war they should be ok on their own.

 

[REDRONIN]

Companion partys and the higher troops in them are for war time. yes the higher troops make a huge difference in the battles. yes you bring them with you in your army. You do not let them just roam that does not work. They also get prisoners and gear constantly. After every fight that you can. stop into a keep. They sell and replenish troops and can gain you good money.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Basically, Tactics skill's passive bonus is an advantage in autoresolve. Minor faction party leaders generally have 120 Tactics(a few have 140) which translates to an advantage of 12 or 14%. It might actually be much larger than that in terms of practical impact, I have not dug into that particular code for details. Additionally, your clan parties can get bigger than 100, but only if the party leader levels up their stewardship and/or you raise your clan tier.

I never though of looking at their tactics skill, that does explain an lot of miraculous defeats of my parties. Though it was very seldom and much more like the minor faction where getting caught and ransomed by my parties. I just let them go nuts one game, didn't give them any troops, just let them form a it on thier own and wander. If they got caught I'd just go to menu and start them up again.

I do know giving parties troops is worthless because they will ditch good troops you give them if it messes with what the AI consider a good ratio of troop types.

This was my experience too, BUT so far in 1.4.3 they seemed to not over recruit and retain the troops I gave them. It's cleaning day at the Chaikand garrison, time for a new party to go on an adventure! Oh I know you would be good leading a caravan spice vendor lady, but you be good at chasing looters back and forth for rest of you life too!