Observations on "Siege"

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Archonsod

An old salt from the mainland
Marquis
Just some observations on the siege map (largely inspired by people who will remain nameless complaining about the difficulty of assault :razz:):

1. Ladder locations (note the "front" of the castle is the side with the gate). Note that each ladder offers a separate benefit you can utilise depending on the team make up. The one most people go for at the front should never be used by itself. Note that a short distance around the side (literally on the other side of the corner tower) is another ladder. Two ladders in relatively close proximity? If you attack via both ladders at the same time it forces the defender to split his forces. If you gain the ladders, it also puts more people on the wall at once. Sneaky method - attack one ladder with the majority of your force while a small group split off to attack the other. Whichever group gets to the top first can assist the second group by attacking those guarding their ladder from behind.
The ladder at the back of the keep tower(on the left wall if facing the gate) is less popular than it should be. For a start, the keep blocks defenders in the courtyard and ramparts from shooting at you, which is always nice. Secondly, the narrow rampart constricts the defenders to a space little wider than the ladder to fight in, preventing them bringing their numbers to bear. Sneaky method - send a small infantry force to this ladder while you feint at the front. Keep your cavalry near the gate. Your small force can run along the front rampart (think about using the little wooden archer post to hide your movements from the courtyard) and jump down the murder hole in the gate tower. Once in there, someone opens the gate to let in the cavalry and the rest of your forces.
The rear ladder - it's a long hike for infantry, however the tree in the courtyard obscures the top of this ladder from anyone not on the rear wall. Since the defenders usually rush to the front of the castle, this can provide a sneaky and unopposed route into the castle. I would suggest assaulting the front with your infantry while your cavalry rush around the back to use this ladder; the infantry feint should keep the defenders interested in their traditional position at the front of the castle, meanwhile you can get a sizeable cavalry force over the walls and under their very noses. What you do with this is up to you; assault the defenders from the back, sieze the gate or I've even used it to sneak a win (which should be a lesson for the defenders to keep an eye on the flag as much as possible)

2. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Biggest mistake most attackers make is to split up. I don't just mean people tearing off around the castle (though with cavalry it can happen). Quite a lot of the time I see people run up to the front wall, erect the ladder and then start running up it immediately. If they're lucky you have two or three guys nearby who do the same thing, but since there's usually five or six defenders waiting for them it's a suicide mission. Generally, when the attackers win it's always because they've breached the castle in force. If necessary, hugging the wall and waiting for support is always worthwhile. Get enough men on the walls and the game is in the bag.

3. Communication. Biggest complaint in this regard is that it's purely text based at the moment. However, while you are on a time limit it's better to waste thirty seconds coming up with an effective plan than waiting respawn from charging the enemy haphazardly and getting killed. You spawn in an area protected by a pallisade and mantlets which will protect you from enemy sniping, and let you keep a watch for sneaky sallies. Spend a little time to ensure the team is on the same page before charging in and you'll be glad you did in the long term.

 
Good plans!!

It reminds me of a tactic we used alot in paintball.  Simply put strong side.

Main group goes left and the little small group of flanks go right.  They are to focused on the large group to realize the small group.  Allowing the small group to get in from behind and support the strong side by taking out the guys in the back.  In this case for m and b it would probably be best to get those archers dead or the men waiting to defend the top of the ladders.
 
The best use of teamwork in a siege that I've been part of was you running around naked punching people as a distraction while I took the side ladder and captured the flag without anyone realising I was there.
 
Archonsod said:
3. Communication. Biggest complaint in this regard is that it's purely text based at the moment.

Sorry if I have missed something, but are you implying that you're planning ingame voicechat? (sorry if that was mentioned before and I just missed it, I didn't pay that much attention to warband til I got the invite and when I was too busy to catch up on reading :p).

I've played the siege mode only a few times so far (actually, it was the first map I tried) and it's really fun imo. There was not much teamwork, but I suppose that'll get better once people get more experience on how the mode actually works. Good job so far with warband, I'm more than impressed :smile:
 
Leave voice chat to the vent servers.  I rather see dev's and programmers doing good work on the game and moving toward release instead of working on incorperating a voice chat system we can already get.
 
All nice tips in theory, but pretty impossible to organize with a group of strangers.  :sad:

A few complaints as well: if an archer-heavy faction is defending, like the Khergits, there's not much you can as infantry sneaking around the back or the side, because you get shot to pieces from all sides as soon as you get near the flag. You can survive pretty long in the top tier armour, but you are waaay too slow to make it to the flag before the timer runs out usually (the timer should be more like 5 minutes anyway).
Swadians are blessed with a mounted unit that also kicks ass on foot (having pretty much the same load-out options as the infantry), allowing you to get access to the castle quickly and fight your heavily armoured way from there, but the other factions, especially the Rhodoks, are boned with their sub-par cavalry equipment. Therefor, Rhodoks fighting Vaegirs or Khergits will almost never win, unless there is more time for their infantry to properly invade the premises.
 
We organised fine last night. It doesn't take much, just a quick team chat to say "We'll go and open the gate, cavalry guys try to keep close to it" or similar can get results.
Lhorkan said:
A few complaints as well: if an archer-heavy faction is defending, like the Khergits, there's not much you can as infantry sneaking around the back or the side, because you get shot to pieces from all sides as soon as you get near the flag
So clear the ramparts first. Most of the time they'll be too busy shooting from the walls to people on the outside. A force inside usually has the element of surprise.
the other factions, especially the Rhodoks, are boned with their sub-par cavalry equipment. Therefor, Rhodoks fighting Vaegirs or Khergits will almost never win, unless there is more time for their infantry to properly invade the premises.
So don't take cavalry. You can't ride a horse up the ladders anyway. You get more than enough time to make a concerted effort, and like I said I have never seen the defender repulse an attacker who sticks together and attacks in force rather than running around piecemeal. I've seen Rhodocks pwn both Khergits and Vaegirs for precisely that reason, the Rhodocks stuck together and moved as a single group, the defenders didn't.
 
Archonsod said:
So don't take cavalry. You can't ride a horse up the ladders anyway.
Not entirely true; as it works currently, you can walk a horse backwards up a ladder. Just not forward.  :lol:
Sure, it's an exploit, but it does work.
 
Archonsod said:
Yeah, but if the defenders let a guy walk his horse backwards up a ladder then to be honest they deserve to lose. It's as bad as letting a naked man keep the gate open :razz:

Oh no! There horses are slowly backing up the ladders! We didn't prepare for this! *panic*

:razz:
 
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