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King Harlaus > Bannerlord: what is this game missing?

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vota dc

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
People "remember" those things because they were forced reddit memes from the unfunniest people on the internet. Jeremus was the only companion worth a damn so people turned him into a demigod in their minds. All kings held feasts too often but harlaus is the funny haha butter king so people made jokes about him over all the others, even though nothing in the code suggests he throws more feasts.

Most of people's collective memories from warband are enhanced by the memes people have built around it over the years, none of which are really based on the game itself, but rather redditor speculation from people who were mostly just guessing. Warband was just as boring and soulless as bannerlord, but since it was a janky game made by a tiny team and most people bought it on sale and went straight to mods, the playerbase collectively ignored how bad it was.

I challenge you to play an entire campaign of unmodded warband. If you don't blow your brains out by the end, you'll realise how poor the immersion is, and how little personality the NPCs and quests have.
Harlaus was surrounded and was the most likely king to hold feast during multiple invasions because Swadia position while It would be much rarer that a Kingdom on the border was invaded by many kingdoms during a feast.
 
IT IS IN EA, SHUT UP ALREADY !!!!
LOL, it's in EA... You think they are adding anything else major to this game? Maybe if you keep wishing harder upon a star... Maybe you and little James can have a radial custom battle on Xbox... Sound good? Run along....

The game lacks a soul, that is the problem. Telling people to shut up in all caps is not going to remedy that.
 
I think unmodded warband is pretty good tbh. I also really like the character models, like they remind me of muppets or something. It's just such a bazar aesthetic to warband

IT IS IN EA
TW could easily say "we're gonna ad these 10 things before we're done" but they don't. So....
Clean up the bugs, fix memory leaks, add battle maps/keep battles.... that's about it. A shell of a game.
He's right, I think it's pretty good, but what they've actually confirmed is coming is just that and revisions and fixes to existing stuff.

We'd all be happy if their next dev update says a bunch of new cool stuff they're going to add (especially already denied features), but it really doesn't seem like that's likely.
 
I think unmodded warband is pretty good tbh. I also really like the character models, like they remind me of muppets or something. It's just such a bazar aesthetic to warband


TW could easily say "we're gonna ad these 10 things before we're done" but they don't. So....

He's right, I think it's pretty good, but what they've actually confirmed is coming is just that and revisions and fixes to existing stuff.

We'd all be happy if their next dev update says a bunch of new cool stuff they're going to add (especially already denied features), but it really doesn't seem like that's likely.
I will gladly come on here and eat crow if TWs adds a major feature with depth in this EA. :smile:
 
This is off topic i know but I got to ask.

Muppets? Seriously? How? You had my curiosity but now you have my attention.
When you talk to a character in warband they just move a little bit and just barely emote in this weird way that's like an anti-uncanny valley, like it's very clear that it's a 3d model, like you were looking at a blocky toy you could just pick up and play with. I can't explain it I guess, but I like it.
 

ObaDoo

Recruit
I think unmodded warband is pretty good tbh. I also really like the character models, like they remind me of muppets or something. It's just such a bazar aesthetic to warband


TW could easily say "we're gonna ad these 10 things before we're done" but they don't. So....

He's right, I think it's pretty good, but what they've actually confirmed is coming is just that and revisions and fixes to existing stuff.

We'd all be happy if their next dev update says a bunch of new cool stuff they're going to add (especially already denied features), but it really doesn't seem like that's likely.
MUPPETS!?!? lol I thought the same thing , Im a warband vet (ish)
 

Rbtparker13

Regular
When you talk to a character in warband they just move a little bit and just barely emote in this weird way that's like an anti-uncanny valley, like it's very clear that it's a 3d model, like you were looking at a blocky toy you could just pick up and play with. I can't explain it I guess, but I like it.
I see the anti-uncanny valley thing you're talking about. (am currently watching a video on warband) but not Muppets. Oh well to each their own
 

Eneas21

Recruit
People "remember" those things because they were forced reddit memes from the unfunniest people on the internet. Jeremus was the only companion worth a damn so people turned him into a demigod in their minds. All kings held feasts too often but harlaus is the funny haha butter king so people made jokes about him over all the others, even though nothing in the code suggests he throws more feasts.

Most of people's collective memories from warband are enhanced by the memes people have built around it over the years, none of which are really based on the game itself, but rather redditor speculation from people who were mostly just guessing. Warband was just as boring and soulless as bannerlord, but since it was a janky game made by a tiny team and most people bought it on sale and went straight to mods, the playerbase collectively ignored how bad it was.

I challenge you to play an entire campaign of unmodded warband. If you don't blow your brains out by the end, you'll realise how poor the immersion is, and how little personality the NPCs and quests have.
Actually Harlaus hold more feasts than other kings because Swadia is in the middle of the map and is the faction that receives more wars and loses them, which is why Harlaus holds more feasts because it raises morale, which actually makes it even worse. Even tho it wasnt intentional this situation gave him the appearance of a personality which is what we players want from NPC's in a roleplaying game, what a surprise right?. And no, Jeremus wasnt the only useful companion, Artimener was great for engineering,and I loved making an elite bodyguard with Alayen, Lezalit, Rolf and another guy, and you know why I remember these names? Because they werent automatically generated crap.

I would gladly play another Warband game, maybe this time I will support some of the claimants to the throne since I always created my own kingdom, it will be nice to get a Lady's hand with a quest and effort, instead of a stupid RNG mechanic that promotes save-scumming, in conclusion, you are a joke. If Warband was so good why dont you go back? Well maybe you should ask yourself why Bannerlord has actually lost the inmersive, rpg'ish features from the prequel which is old as **** and why we got a damn battle simulator with no soul.
 

Eneas21

Recruit
I think there is a sort of romanticized nostalgia about Warband, outside of Feasts and some static Lords with personalities that *slightly* meant something it was not that immersive. It was in many ways much more annoying - you couldn't kill lords, there was a finite amount of companions and you always had to have the *right* mix or they would leave you party. There was a lot of grinding, moreso than Bannerlord, especially since they fixed the leveling (aka they removed that stupid diminishing learning limit).

I do feel there are some missed opportunities, there is no where near the amount of freedom as was advertised, but there hardly is even for similar games - Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls come to mind as games that gave you constrained freedom with slightly better roleplay elements (at least in DA:O, sort of). What I think that boils down to for some is the fact you cannot do a bandit playthrough or a Freelancer - which seem easy to add given there are mods for that, so it's well within the engine / codebase parameters.
There was a lot of annoying things, i recognize that, but the pacing was slower and so the feeling of progression and your social status had more importance, and part of the grinding made it feel more worth it, like grinding right to rule before starting a kingdom or improving relations with lords. DAO and ESO are very different games from M&B but what I really think this game misses its more ways to play from a social status point of view. You said the two most requested alternative ways to play, as a soldier and as a bandit, but what about being a Mercenary and get paid a ton for saving a kingdom's ass, what about being a merchant in a inmersive way with Guilds of traders that give missions and bonuses for being part of them, maybe there could be several guilds, or maybe become a religious leader and lead fanatics, there were devblogs about minor factions being religious and that was underdeveloped, they are just a regular mercenary clan. Etc, etc.

And most importantly, if you play the Lord way, there should be titles, dukes/barons/counts, titles, with requirements and privileges, quests around them, etc. And there is none of that, just a clan tier that feels kinda bad.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
IMO, the problem with BL is that the game progresses too fast compared to Warband, so nothing feels hardly earned. Battles grant way too much renown that even if you outmatch looters 1 to 10, it still gives you like 1. After reaching the first clan tier, you simply roll your way up to become the king. Wars don't end, you keep getting more and more renown and influence. There's no village distribution so you are granted a castle/town immediately. Militia garrisons it so you don't bother with training men to defend the place. All NPC interactions are menu-based so no more searching people in settlements. You can immediately start building armies of your own, no lord would mind following a peasant to battle because he has influence. Your kingdom is likely to expand around where your first holding is so you keep getting granted more and more fiefs. And eventually... likely all the nobles of your kingdom, that served the realm for generations will vote you as king because reasons... By this point you're in a never ending battle simulation anyway that you hardly have time to do anything else.


I will just quote myself.

Totally agree with these guys.
 
Actually Harlaus hold more feasts than other kings because Swadia is in the middle of the map and is the faction that receives more wars and loses them, which is why Harlaus holds more feasts because it raises morale, which actually makes it even worse.

This isn't true. In the code there are only a few reasons to hold feasts (i.e. when there is a pending wedding or if there hasn't been a feast in a while), and being at war is actually supposed to decrease them. If anything, Harlaus would be the least likely ruler to have feasts, assuming he gets into a lot of wars (something I am also not convinced is true).

Code:
#FEAST-RELATED OPERATIONS BEGIN
        #10-CONCLUDE CURRENT FEAST
        (else_try),
            (eq, ":current_ai_state", sfai_feast),
            (gt, ":hours_at_current_state", 72),
        
            (assign, ":action", sfai_default),
            (assign, ":object", -1),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_it_is_time_for_the_feast_to_conclude"),

        #11-CONTINE FEAST UNLESS THERE IS AN EMERGENCY
        (else_try),
            (eq, ":current_ai_state", sfai_feast),
            (le, ":hours_at_current_state", 72),
            
            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":current_ai_object"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_we_should_continue_the_feast_unless_there_is_an_emergency"),
        
        #12-HOLD A FEAST BECAUSE THE PLAYER WANTS TO ORGANIZE ONE
        (else_try),
            (check_quest_active, "qst_organize_feast"),
            (eq, "$players_kingdom", ":faction_no"),
        
            (quest_get_slot, ":target_center", "qst_organize_feast", slot_quest_target_center),
            
            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":target_center"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_you_had_wished_to_hold_a_feast"),
        
        #13-HOLD A FEAST BECAUSE FEMALE PLAYER SCHEDULED TO GET MARRIED
        (else_try),
            (check_quest_active, "qst_wed_betrothed_female"),
                
            (quest_get_slot, ":groom", "qst_wed_betrothed_female", slot_quest_giver_troop),
            (troop_slot_eq, ":groom", slot_troop_prisoner_of_party, -1),
        
            (store_faction_of_troop, ":groom_faction", ":groom"),
            (eq, ":groom_faction", ":faction_no"),
                
            (faction_get_slot, ":faction_leader", ":groom_faction", slot_faction_leader),
                
            (assign, ":location_feast", -1),
            (try_for_range, ":possible_location", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
               (eq, ":location_feast", -1),
                (party_slot_eq, ":possible_location", slot_town_lord, ":groom"),
                (party_slot_ge, ":possible_location", slot_center_is_besieged_by, 0),
                (assign, ":location_feast", ":possible_location"),
            (try_end),
            
            (try_for_range, ":possible_location", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
                (eq, ":location_feast", -1),
                (party_slot_eq, ":possible_location", slot_town_lord, ":faction_leader"),
                (party_slot_ge, ":possible_location", slot_center_is_besieged_by, 0),
                (assign, ":location_feast", ":possible_location"),
            (try_end),
        
            (is_between, ":location_feast", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),

            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":location_feast"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_your_wedding_day_approaches_my_lady"),
        
        #14-HOLD A FEAST BECAUSE A MALE CHARACTER WANTS TO GET MARRIED
        (else_try),
            (check_quest_active, "qst_wed_betrothed"),
            (neg|quest_slot_ge, "qst_wed_betrothed", slot_quest_expiration_days, 362),
        
            (quest_get_slot, ":bride", "qst_wed_betrothed", slot_quest_target_troop),
            (call_script, "script_get_kingdom_lady_social_determinants", ":bride"),
            (assign, ":feast_host", reg0),
            (store_faction_of_troop, ":feast_host_faction", ":feast_host"),
            (eq, ":feast_host_faction", ":faction_no"),
        
            (troop_slot_eq, ":feast_host", slot_troop_prisoner_of_party, -1),
            (assign, ":wedding_venue", reg1),
        
            (is_between, ":wedding_venue", centers_begin, centers_end),
            (party_slot_eq, ":wedding_venue", slot_center_is_besieged_by, -1),
        
            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":wedding_venue"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_your_wedding_day_approaches"),
        
        #15-HOLD A FEAST BECAUSE AN NPC WANTS TO GET MARRIED
        (else_try),   
            (ge, ":hours_since_last_feast_start", 192), #If at least eight days past last feast start time
        
            (assign, ":location_feast", -1),
        
            (try_for_range, ":kingdom_lady", kingdom_ladies_begin, kingdom_ladies_end),
                (troop_get_slot, ":groom", ":kingdom_lady", slot_troop_betrothed),
                (gt, ":groom", 0), #not the player

                (store_faction_of_troop, ":lady_faction", ":kingdom_lady"),
                (store_faction_of_troop, ":groom_faction", ":groom"),
                
                (try_begin), #The groom checks if he wants to continue or break off relations. This causes actions, rather than just returns a value, so it probably should be moved elsewhere
                    (troop_slot_ge, ":groom", slot_troop_prisoner_of_party, 0),       
                (else_try),
                    (neq, ":groom_faction", ":lady_faction"),
                    (neq, ":groom_faction", "fac_player_faction"),
                    (call_script, "script_courtship_event_lady_break_relation_with_suitor", ":kingdom_lady", ":groom"),
                (else_try),
                    (eq, ":lady_faction", ":faction_no"),
                    (store_current_hours, ":hours_since_betrothal"),
                    (troop_get_slot, ":betrothal_time", ":kingdom_lady", slot_troop_betrothal_time),
                    (val_sub, ":hours_since_betrothal", ":betrothal_time"),
                    (ge, ":hours_since_betrothal", 719), #30 days
                            
                    (call_script, "script_get_kingdom_lady_social_determinants", ":kingdom_lady"),
                    (assign, ":wedding_venue", reg1),
                
                    (assign, ":location_feast", ":wedding_venue"),
                    (assign, ":final_bride", ":kingdom_lady"),
                    (assign, ":final_groom", ":groom"),
                (try_end),   
            (try_end),
        
            (ge, ":location_feast", centers_begin),
                
            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":location_feast"),
                
            (str_store_troop_name, s22, ":final_bride"),
            (str_store_troop_name, s23, ":final_groom"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_s22_and_s23_wish_to_marry"),

        #16-HOLD A FEAST ANYWAY
        (else_try),
            (eq, ":current_ai_state", sfai_default),
            (gt, ":hours_since_last_feast_start", 240), #If at least 10 days past after last feast. (added by ozan)

            (assign, ":location_high_score", 0),
            (assign, ":location_feast", -1),
        
            (try_for_range, ":location", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
                (store_faction_of_party, ":location_faction", ":location"),
                (eq, ":location_faction", ":faction_no"),

                (try_begin),
                    (neg|party_slot_eq, ":location", slot_village_state, svs_under_siege),
                    (party_get_slot, ":location_lord", ":location", slot_town_lord),
                    (is_between, ":location_lord", active_npcs_begin, active_npcs_end),
                    (troop_get_slot, ":location_score", ":location_lord", slot_troop_renown),
                    (store_random_in_range, ":random", 0, 1000), #will probably be king or senior lord
                    (val_add, ":location_score", ":random"),
                    (gt, ":location_score", ":location_high_score"),
                    (assign, ":location_high_score", ":location_score"),
                    (assign, ":location_feast", ":location"),               
                (else_try), #do not start new feasts if any place is under siege or being raided
                    (this_or_next|party_slot_eq, ":location", slot_village_state, svs_under_siege),
                        (party_slot_eq, ":location", slot_village_state, svs_being_raided),
                    (assign, ":location_high_score", 9999),
                    (assign, ":location_feast", -1),
                (try_end),
            (try_end),

            (is_between, ":location_feast", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
            (party_get_slot, ":feast_host", ":location_feast", slot_town_lord),
            (troop_slot_eq, ":feast_host", slot_troop_prisoner_of_party, -1),
        
            (assign, ":action", sfai_feast),
            (assign, ":object", ":location_feast"),       
            (str_store_string, s14, "str_it_has_been_a_long_time_since_the_lords_of_the_realm_gathered_for_a_feast"),
 
There was a lot of annoying things, i recognize that, but the pacing was slower and so the feeling of progression and your social status had more importance, and part of the grinding made it feel more worth it, like grinding right to rule before starting a kingdom or improving relations with lords. DAO and ESO are very different games from M&B but what I really think this game misses its more ways to play from a social status point of view. You said the two most requested alternative ways to play, as a soldier and as a bandit, but what about being a Mercenary and get paid a ton for saving a kingdom's ass, what about being a merchant in a inmersive way with Guilds of traders that give missions and bonuses for being part of them, maybe there could be several guilds, or maybe become a religious leader and lead fanatics, there were devblogs about minor factions being religious and that was underdeveloped, they are just a regular mercenary clan. Etc, etc.

And most importantly, if you play the Lord way, there should be titles, dukes/barons/counts, titles, with requirements and privileges, quests around them, etc. And there is none of that, just a clan tier that feels kinda bad.
Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with you, I think those are valid RP and there are ways that they can be supported. I just am not as "long" on Warband as others were / are
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
Warband was just as boring and soulless as bannerlord
I'm not going to say it was the pinnacle of immersion or anything, but in most ways other than visuals, it was/is more immersive than Bannerlord.
I challenge you to play an entire campaign of unmodded warband. If you don't blow your brains out by the end, you'll realise how poor the immersion is, and how little personality the NPCs and quests have.
Already have played two full campaigns of unmodded warband, plus multiple partial ones doing stuff other than map-painting. It is boring to conquer the whole map piece by piece once you've gotten to full snowball (Bannerlord has exactly the same problem) and of course it's not the most immersive game ever, but that aside, the process of getting there is more immersive than Bannerlord in lots of different ways, most of which are in the link in my signature which you've already seen.

I think the point is that despite Warband not being perfect, Bannerlord is a step backwards from it in a lot of ways, instead of an advancement.
outside of Feasts and some static Lords with personalities that *slightly* meant something it was not that immersive
Also lord dialogue had more of the lord's personality in it, and claimants who tell you stories of your kingdom and ask you to join them in a civil war, being ambushed by bandits/assassins who were hired by lords who hated you, fighting drunkards in taverns, companions telling you stories about themselves and Calradia that present points of view from almost every group in the game, commanding your allies to attack/defend/retreat to a specific location without your presence, roaming deserters and manhunters who made the map feel more alive, booksellers who sold books you could read to gain skills, being able to ask lords why they were doing something and get an answer, the ability to pitch a camp while waiting, having to actually fight your way out when failing to sneak into a town, vassals coming to your kingdom's court to offer their services, political quests to actually instigate a war yourself by robbing caravans or denounce other lords, resolving disputes among your lords, court gossiping to learn about a lady's personality and coming back to visit her during courtship, very basic casus belli for wars like "Citizens of the Kingdom of Nords say they are suffering mistreatment, and petition King Harlaus for protection. This will make it easier for him to go to war, if he wants it..." fighting duels with other lords when courting a lady or denouncing them, asking peasants to light a fire in a village for you to create a distraction while you did a prison breakout, and battling in the street and keep during a siege- among other things.

The multiple broken, incomplete, or unimplemented mechanics in Bannerlord don't help immersion either. There's a lot about Bannerlord that's good, but it's still missing a lot of meat on the bones which Warband had.
You always had to have the *right* mix of companions or they would leave you party.
It's slightly too common in Warband, but it's much more realistic than throwing a random group of criminals, nobles, and scholars together for long periods of time and them all living in perfect harmony.

I genuinely enjoy it sometimes. Like in Viking Conquest, Donnchadh straight up tells you that Welshmen (iirc?) ruined his life and he won't put up with having one in your party. I thought "hey, I bet that's going to happen eventually." Then I did hire a Welsh guy and of course he got mad, and I enjoyed taking Donnchadh's side and telling the Welsh guy to shut up, since I liked Donnchadh.

It's another choice for the player to make- which companion do I value more? - that provides a diversion from the constant grind of looters. It reminds you what your companions' personalities are, and makes them feel more like people joining your journey instead of caravan-leading robots.
There was a lot of grinding, moreso than Bannerlord
Getting higher-tier troops was much easier. When it comes to skill grinding though, I do like Bannerlord's skill system more, and find it more immersive than Warband.
What I think that boils down to for some is the fact you cannot do a bandit playthrough
Yeah. I'm still waiting to be able to run a "highly profitable" criminal enterprise in alleyways and base my gang there like they said we were going to be able to.
 
Last edited:

bonerstorm

Veteran
Also lord dialogue had more of the lord's personality in it, and claimants who tell you stories of your kingdom and ask you to join them in a civil war, being ambushed by bandits/assassins who were hired by lords who hated you, fighting drunkards in taverns, companions telling you stories about themselves and Calradia that present points of view from almost every group in the game, commanding your allies to attack/defend/retreat to a specific location without your presence, roaming deserters and manhunters who made the map feel more alive, booksellers who sold books you could read to gain skills, being able to ask lords why they were doing something and get an answer, the ability to pitch a camp while waiting, having to actually fight your way out when failing to sneak into a town, vassals coming to your kingdom's court to offer their services, political quests to actually instigate a war yourself by robbing caravans or denounce other lords, resolving disputes among your lords, court gossiping to learn about a lady's personality and coming back to visit her during courtship, very basic casus belli for wars like "Citizens of the Kingdom of Nords say they are suffering mistreatment, and petition King Harlaus for protection. This will make it easier for him to go to war, if he wants it..." fighting duels with other lords when courting a lady or denouncing them, asking peasants to light a fire in a village for you to create a distraction while you did a prison breakout, and battling in the street and keep during a siege- among other things.
I've played BL for hundreds upon hundreds of hours and I can't remember the name of any non-ruler noble. Not a one, except for Ira (who I keep marrying because RP). In fact, I've forgotten the names of the faction leaders for Aserai and Sturgia. I don't have a clue.

Whereas I still have memories and even emotional attachments to Jeremus and Rolf and Ymira and even that slimy f*** Nizar (who I still haven't forgiven for abandoning me after I made him a lord). I still loathe Harlaus for being an idiot and dragging me down with him as he drove Swadia into the dirt.

And, while I was playing, I had strong opinions about every lord in whatever kingdom I was in... plus about half the lords of every neighboring kingdom.

Courtship was an organic thing which happened as I ran into ladies after tournament wins or through chance encounters... romance would be a significant investment in time and resources, which made me actually GAF when a prospective bride would say something like "Well... I'm just not attracted to you." The response being: "Well eff you right back, sister!"

I'd feel legit BAD when courting a total sweetheart who fell for some other dude and then hearing her upset about it after I kicked her fiance's ass in a duel. It was all ones and zeros, but they felt like REAL people underneath all the dumb AI.

By contrast, in BL I just looked up Ira on the wiki + savescummed through her persuasion checks + gave her mom a big bag of cash. Then I'd wander around with the only blood heir to the last ruling emperor and have half a dozen babies with her as a NEUTRAL party, while her mom would fight wars for our children's theoretical future right to rule Calradia. And, even if every noble in the SE died, the faction would never pass to you.

BL has absolutely zero soul.

Getting higher-tier troops was much easier. When it comes to skill grinding though, I do like Bannerlord's skill system more, and find it more immersive than Warband.
I agree the skill grinding is better, but only if you play on 2x XP at least and increase that even further for Leadership/Engineering/Trade/Charm/Roguery/Medicine.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
It be cool if there was inheriting for something like that.
Apparently there is now? IDK.

I'm not sure if it's an artifact of Diplomacy Fixes or a recent update, but apparently a dead ruler means that there's an election for a new ruling clan (which CAN be you!).

Beats me tho. I haven't done a full playthrough in months because the game's been too busted.
 
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