How are troop trees feeling now?

[Apocal]

So we've had awhile with 1.5.4 reworking most armor values and rearranging gear sets alongside it. How does everything feel?

I haven't noticed a big difference between 1.5.2 and 1.5.4, other than aesthetics, in Aserai and Khuzait.

Sturgian infantry seem a bit tankier than my last playthrough with that faction, but not having Shock Troops with warrazors really hurts. Cav being fixed makes the jav cav losing a stack for a lance bearable as well.

I haven't played with other factions.

 

[Jason L.]

I also noticed Sturgians being more effective at least in terms of infantry. It also seems to me that Kutzaits have had a boost all around. Mellee cavalry seems a bit nerfed also.

 

[nereid]

IMHO nothing really new due to the recent changes (besides the Shock Troops loosing the war razor), but why should you get the spear troops? For example why should I use Oathsworn and not simply Wildlings? Even the non shield carrying infantry troops are annoying to handle as they really won't stay back in the shield wall. The Sturgian Woodrunners will stay in the frontline of a shield wall and thus dying to arrows really fast.

In my opinion some of the troops should get a better differentiation or maybe real effective spear handling needs to be introduced.

 

[caledoni]

The changes That I noticed straight away were that Vladian Sharpshooters and Imperial Sergent Xbowmen both got their Xbow skill buffed from 100 to 130. This put them in line with Hired Crossbowmen.

I noticed yesterday just how bad Sturgian veteren bowmen are. They have a lower bow skill than other Tier 5's and a worse bow (simple short bow)

 

[nereid]

I noticed yesterday just how bad Sturgian veteren bowmen are. They have a lower bow skill than other Tier 5's and a worse bow (simple short bow)

This is intended. But as archers are currently very strong the shield wall formation should work really well, playing well into the strength of the Sturgians: giant shields. But as I just wrote above as long as non-shielded troops are in the shield wall front line things do not work out well. Skirmisher and shock troops without shield should hide behind the shield wall.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

I hope that in time (hopefully not far far away) shieldwall will become spearwall as was normal in RL for swords were back up weapon usually and used where spears were bad like in siege on the wall etc. Or that we get command for soldiers using polearms over 1handed like cease fire woks for cav. archers switching range weapon for melee one.

Also not being number one problem in case of cataphracts they could get straped shield. I personally do not like having Sturgian jack of all trades cavalry having one javelin bag, axe and spear.

Most ppl agree (from what I read) that heavy armor is weak against ranged units that only good protection is shield what make archers useless against shielded units even if they have no real armor (like t2 with shields) but too effective like having rifles against heavy armor (t5/t6) - I do not talk about point blank range ofc.
It is problem in most games making some (AP) weapons rather ignoring usually 50 percent of armor value instead of just lowering it by some flat value not whole half of it. (Armor dissapered later becasue soldiers became cheaper then armors unfortunately for "peasants" could be soldiers with same use as overpriced nobles with good armors (politics too) but quantinty (of former peasants with no strings attached) had its own quality.)

Last patch changing armor values disapointed me though as if idea was to make armor better but aesthetically and practically (especially halving arm armor value which even takes 20 percent more dmg and leg armor (20 per less) values as if this man/woman never played the game) made armor worse than before and still having best gear locked by prosperity of town and clan level is not good, again let it be about money then until better mechanics is implemented (like noble status etc).

I hope that noble line for all factions will be somehow more accesible (I would have rather problem financing them than finding them) while recruit line should support noble one in what they lack. So if nobles line is heavy cavalry then recruit line should be medium or ranged. Medium like javelin throwers but with more than one bag. Hopefully if cavalry will get fixed using onehanded weapons especially shorter ones like axes / maces efficiently (like chargint to enemy line and hammering them instead of runing away after one or no hit at all) then there will be no need to making them jacks of all trades. (or giving one bag/quiver on a horse or lance).

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

This is intended. But as archers are currently very strong the shield wall formation should work really well, playing well into the strength of the Sturgians: giant shields. But as I just wrote above as long as non-shielded troops are in the shield wall front line things do not work out well. Skirmisher and shock troops without shield should hide behind the shield wall.

I expect (hope) that we get a new command for troops commanding similar to follow me but follow "infantry / main line" so puting infantry without shields to for example "light infantry or skirmishers group" and giving them order to follow main line waiting for good moment and giving them chargé order or before that positioningh them on flank etc. Same with archers - command : folow main line (which would had advance order). AI having similar command at disposal and using it ofc would be a must.

 

[nereid]

I expect (hope) that we get a new command for troops commanding similar to follow me but follow "infantry / main line" so puting infantry without shields to for example "light infantry or skirmishers group" and giving them order to follow main line waiting for good moment and giving them chargé order or before that positioningh them on flank etc. Same with archers - command : folow main line (which would had advance order). AI having similar command at disposal and using it ofc would be a must.

You can move the skirmishers and the shock infantry into their own troops, but then you have to handle this by yourself and the AI is not intelligent enough to handle these sort of troops reliably.

 

[Dabos37]

I usually like to run tests and for me, there is a big difference. Armor is now more relevant and elite infantry is now fearsome and do a pretty good job against recruits.

You just have to compare this:



With this:

 

[black_bulldog]

I usually like to run tests and for me, there is a big difference. Armor is now more relevant and elite infantry is now fearsome and do a pretty good job against recruits.

You just have to compare this:



With this:

Yeah I'm find this to be true too. Unless it's a big battle or I'm evenly matched I rarely lose top tier troops anymore. This is the way it should be they shouldn't be going down to tier 1 and 2 troops unless outnumbered.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Whatever they do, I hope they hold up on chucking them into the stable version.

 

[Ferisko]

Sturgia infantry feels powerful now, axemen seems to live more than spearmen in my experience

 

[black_bulldog]

Sturgia infantry feels powerful now, axemen seems to live more than spearmen in my experience

Really I feel like they're the first to go down I wish I could keep them behind the shield wall, but I can't micro 5+ groups when there is a big battle it's too much for me to try to do more than 4 effectively. They keep charging ahead because they have no shield and die so fast to archers.

 

[Medivhtratos]

Really I feel like they're the first to go down I wish I could keep them behind the shield wall, but I can't micro 5+ groups when there is a big battle it's too much for me to try to do more than 4 effectively. They keep charging ahead because they have no shield and die so fast to archers.

Remind ya, axeman and spearmen have now both a shield. I think you mean the line breakers.

 

[black_bulldog]

Remind ya, axeman and spearmen have now both a shield. I think you mean the line breakers.

Yeah that's who I'm talking about sorry for the mix up.

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

Really I feel like they're the first to go down I wish I could keep them behind the shield wall, but I can't micro 5+ groups when there is a big battle it's too much for me to try to do more than 4 effectively. They keep charging ahead because they have no shield and die so fast to archers.

Theoretically shieldless unit got to the back files when in shield wall formation.

 

[black_bulldog]

Theoretically shieldless unit got to the back files when in shield wall formation.

Yeah they should but they don't always. I want to put them into group 5 but if you end up getting a village scene they spawn right on the enemy and are down in an instant until that crap gets fixed I don't use them that way so I don't use them. I expect to see t5 units go down now and again but the rate they die is usually at least 2-3x what a shielded melee unit would be and I'd rather not see them dropping like flies.

 

[BlazingScribe]

I can only really speak for Battania, as they're the faction I have the most experience using/fighting alongside.

The short answer is that they are better but still need work.

Falxmen got some desperately needed armor, Fiann are slightly less busted though still very good. The overall troop tree is slightly better but still needs a rebalance of both stats and unit roles. The big one with the current set up is differentiating Wildlings and Oathbound. The two units are still too similar in function, and Wildlings are still better outside of the Oathbound's niche ability to knock cavalry off their mounts (while really cool, if you can stab someone off their horse while their moving full speed, chances are you're killing them anyway).

I'm going to be starting a new game with Vlandia soon. I'm going to try to bring the Rhodok way back from the dead.

 

[fragonard]

Or spark them into being since this is an earlier period.

 

[five bucks]

The overall troop tree is slightly better but still needs a rebalance of both stats and unit roles. The big one with the current set up is differentiating Wildlings and Oathbound. The two units are still too similar in function

Agreed, I would also say for Vlandia that Sergeants, Pikemen and Voulgiers feel too similar in function. Take away the Sergeant's polearm perhaps.