Guards in castles or keeps

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moonelord

Regular
as far as i see there are only tier 1 recruits that guarding in the castles and cities even in the throneroom.This is so disturbing for me.They should remove them and add at least tier 2 or 3.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.
 

Roccoflipside

Master Knight
I also could be wrong, but I've been under the impression that, with the exception of being in a war/possibility of attack, most "guards" wouldn't be real military, but rather a sort of townwatch. Obviously a lord would probably have a detachment of pros around him, but again that would only be around him.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Roccoflipside said:
I also could be wrong, but I've been under the impression that, with the exception of being in a war/possibility of attack, most "guards" wouldn't be real military, but rather a sort of townwatch. Obviously a lord would probably have a detachment of pros around him, but again that would only be around him.
I just looked it up. You seem to be right. Although it would make sense for Calradia's city guards to be actual soldiers instead of a volunteer police force considering the war-like nature of the place.
 
Noudelle said:
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.

To be fair the OP was asking for higher tier than recruits (tier 1) soldiers, and I don't think that's too unreasonable. Personally I'm not really bothered by this, and I do remember in keeps there does seem to be higher tier guards (by the throne), so it's not like all guards are recruits. That being said maybe tier 2 units being the average for the guards makes more sense, you know maybe lords want their guards to have a little more training before they send them out on the streets. I like the idea of not all guards being the same tier though, as it adds some more variety and immersion in my opinion.



Noudelle said:
Roccoflipside said:
I also could be wrong, but I've been under the impression that, with the exception of being in a war/possibility of attack, most "guards" wouldn't be real military, but rather a sort of townwatch. Obviously a lord would probably have a detachment of pros around him, but again that would only be around him.
I just looked it up. You seem to be right. Although it would make sense for Calradia's city guards to be actual soldiers instead of a volunteer police force considering the war-like nature of the place.
Yeah I agree with Noudelle, war is one of Calradia's favourite pastimes and I don't think that the decline of an empire is peaceful especially considering how many factions border it. Maybe in peacetime there could be militia guards or town specific guards? It's not really that big of a problem.
 

moonelord

Regular
Noudelle said:
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.


I mean that lord's or king's close guards in throneroom(keep).
 
In Warband each faction has a guard troop, which is quite high powered. These are used for fight missions vs the player to make things more competitive. However, lower tier general troops were generally used in scenes at guard points for visual variety as no fights were programmed there. It may be the same in Bannerlord, or this time guard troops may also be upgradeable.
 
moonelord said:
Noudelle said:
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.


I mean that lord's or king's close guards in throneroom(keep).

I'm pretty sure this is already the case. In the Varcheg throne room there was at least one guard who was not a tier 1 unit for Sturgia, which would be a Sturgian Volunteer. I believe the unit highlighted below is probably a Sturgian Spearman (tier 3 unit, hidden on the Sturgian troop tree) or something, which at the very least is not a tier 1 unit.
PKgp7.png


There is also a unit simply called Guard as well by the way.
 

moonelord

Regular
Lord Engineer said:
moonelord said:
Noudelle said:
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.


I mean that lord's or king's close guards in throneroom(keep).

I'm pretty sure this is already the case. In the Varcheg throne room there was at least one guard who was not a tier 1 unit for Sturgia, which would be a Sturgian Volunteer. I believe the unit highlighted below is probably a Sturgian Spearman (tier 3 unit, hidden on the Sturgian troop tree) or something, which at the very least is not a tier 1 unit.
PKgp7.png


There is also a unit simply called Guard as well by the way.

Thank you for your answer.While i was looking gamescom videos the guy get in throneroom in vlandian castle and i saw all guards are recruit and their arms was scythe which used for farm.Therefore I became afraid after seeing that.
 
Noudelle said:
I'm about to presume a few things here so take what I'm about to say with a big ol' pinch of salt.

Weren't medieval city guards "low-tier" soldiers historically? I thought that being a guard was considered to be a tedious, boring job. It would make sense for these characters to not be high level troops.
A highly trained soldier's purpose is to fight in battles. Using them to stand in a doorway or watch out for thieves in the city market would be a waste of money and resources. Any idiot with a spear can do this job.

Being a soldier is also a tedious, time-consuming job. For the entire history of warfare the average soldier has just stood around waiting for stuff to happen. Some commanders relied on waiting for the enemy to get bored and go home.

Guard duties in medieval towns and cities was the job of a town watch of sorts who would enforce a curfew, and an actual military guard for administrative buildings or palaces. The dichotomy is still around today in most countries: you're unlikely to see squads of trained riflemen marching around a town doing police duty, but you'd probably see them near the government or parliament building.

I think guards and town watches should both be separate troop trees for each faction. Guards posted in administrative buildings have to be trustworthy men, so they're usually picked from the military or the upper echelons of the police force, and not just recruited from scratch. They often have special equipment and separate titles to distinguish them and codify their role. Similarly, town watches in most premodern societies were locally recruited, and their purpose was to deter and investigate crime, not to go on campaign. They're different jobs. Most policemen would be terrible soldiers and most modern soliders need extra training if they wind up doing garrison duties.
 
Noudelle said:
I just looked it up. You seem to be right. Although it would make sense for Calradia's city guards to be actual soldiers instead of a volunteer police force considering the war-like nature of the place.

Ehh, and Europe was not war-like place? You could argue having more wars and fights is just gameplay feature and would be different in different kind of game or in real life. I think 60 years was the longest European peace for 2 000 years - and even longer if you count area outside Roman empire.
In fact, if it is war like, then you want even more volunteer militias to fulfill all the roles that don't need real military. You want to free up as many men for places where you actually need decent quality troops.
Also, you can recruit people to militia you would not recruit to real army. Local farmers for example are needed at providing food for entire kingdom, so you want as few of them in the army as possible. But they don't need to do work at their farm every hour of every day, so they can still do some part time local duties.

 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Ruler of Calradia said:
Noudelle said:
I just looked it up. You seem to be right. Although it would make sense for Calradia's city guards to be actual soldiers instead of a volunteer police force considering the war-like nature of the place.

Ehh, and Europe was not war-like place? You could argue having more wars and fights is just gameplay feature and would be different in different kind of game or in real life. I think 60 years was the longest European peace for 2 000 years - and even longer if you count area outside Roman empire.
In fact, if it is war like, then you want even more volunteer militias to fulfill all the roles that don't need real military. You want to free up as many men for places where you actually need decent quality troops.
Also, you can recruit people to militia you would not recruit to real army. Local farmers for example are needed at providing food for entire kingdom, so you want as few of them in the army as possible. But they don't need to do work at their farm every hour of every day, so they can still do some part time local duties.
Wars in Calradia are being declared weekly. No faction in M&B can go more than a few flippin' months without being dragged into full-scale war. Europe might have had a lot of wars but nowhere near the level of Calradia.
But as you said, this could be argued that it's the way it is primarily for gameplay purposes.

I do admit that my previous points weren't very well constructed though.
 

Roccoflipside

Master Knight
I would say the two main differences between real life and Calradia (in reference to this discussion) would be the amt. of time necessary to muster and march troops to your enemy's land, and the lack of need for supply lines etc. in Calradia. IRL, it would take weeks to months to get your troops into enemy territory, depending on how far you were going, while in Calradia you can march clear across the continent in, what, two days (it's been a while since I last played)?  Additionally, the fact you don't need to stop to take castles/secure supplies means any town or castle could get hit at any time, as opposed to having time to gather forces when it becomes evident your enemy is marching on you.

Based on these differences, I would say it would make sense for guards in Calradia to be more 'professional' than their real life counterparts, as they would need to be ready on a moment's notice vs. having time to gather the professional forces.
 
Calradia is implied to be around the size of somewhere like rhodes. The villages are tiny, and even the biggest towns look like they coild house about 1000 people in total. I can't feasibly imagine more thsn 50,000 people living in calradia. Even so, the entirety of calradis's in-game logic is a sloppy afterthought. None of it makes any sense if you think about it for more than a nanosecond, and trying to apply logic to it is pointless because it's too inconsistent. I could just as easily claim that guards in bannerlord should be armoured in gold because coins are a renewable resource in calradia.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
BIGGER Kentucky James XXL said:
Calradia is implied to be around the size of somewhere like rhodes. The villages are tiny, and even the biggest towns look like they coild house about 1000 people in total. I can't feasibly imagine more thsn 50,000 people living in calradia. Even so, the entirety of calradis's in-game logic is a sloppy afterthought. None of it makes any sense if you think about it for more than a nanosecond, and trying to apply logic to it is pointless because it's too inconsistent.
I agree with you on this.
BIGGER Kentucky James XXL said:
I could just as easily claim that guards in bannerlord should be armoured in gold because coins are a renewable resource in calradia.
I do not agree with you on this.

Even though Calradia isn't a logically consistent place, the game should at least try to maintain the semblance of being a grounded, semi-realistic place even though it's not.
(Almost) No game, book, movie, etc. will ever manage to create a perfectly 100% logically consistent world. That doesn't mean that, because of this, all rules should be thrown out the window in favor of total, non-sensical chaos.
Even though I know Calradia isn't a logically consistent place, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that it might be. If that makes sense.
 
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