EU_Union - Server thread and rules

[Jammy]

Surely the map was created by and for PW_Union, and is therefore the property of "Union" as a business/group? Therefore the owners of the "Union" name have the rights to the map - in this case those "Owners" being the 17th, given that they own & maintain both the server box, .com address, and website.

Salva was Owner/Head Admin at that point I believe. So he still would be owner by your logic.

And just because I make a map and I give a specific server the exclusive right to use it doesn't mean that they own it or that I can't retract that right at a later point, especially if they give me a reason to.
Who owns the server and domain has no effect on the maprights.

Well no, Guard was always the server owner, and paid the vast majority of the server maintenance costs. I believe he eventually got sick of all the drama and handed it back to the 17th, the current owners and the server providers at the time.

My point, Av3nger, is that Salva doesn't own exclusive rights to the map. From what I've been told, Salva didn't actually make nearly as much of a contribution as people seem to be implying. Further evidence leading me to believe this is how his contribution seems to have magnified throughout this thread.

Salva made the major parts of the map and got the idea to the major things too. I belive he made like 80% of the map.

For instance, when the topic of his contribution first came up, apparently he made a "Significant contribution" to the map. That's evolved into becoming "Most of the map", to "50% of the map", to (most recently) "80% of the map".

Salva may not own exclusive rights, however he is joint creator with two other people and thus all three have to permit the use of the map.

But you admited he owns parts of the right to use it, thus the second part of your post is irrelevant.

If that is the case then Eu_Nexus have to remove borderlands from their server as It has not been approved by the other mappers only Salva.

 

[Av3ng3r]

Unless you come to a compromise, they can't, at least in my opinion.

 

[Jammy]

Unless you come to a compromise, they can't, at least in my opinion.

So we can remove the map and they can't ?
If that is what you mean surely that is against the very essence of compromise

 

[Av3ng3r]

Unless you come to a compromise, they can't, at least in my opinion.

So we can remove the map and they can't ?
If that is what you mean surely that is against the very essence of compromise

Nope, neither are allowed to use it, unless you agree on something.

 

[Jammy]

Unless you come to a compromise, they can't, at least in my opinion.

So we can remove the map and they can't ?
If that is what you mean surely that is against the very essence of compromise

Nope, neither are allowed to use it, unless you agree on something.

Indeed I agree with that, However I have spoken to the mappers and we will hopefully sit down and discuss it today and reach a compromise

 

[Jammy]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

 

[Stoniestpepper]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

Under his watch yes but he also asked me to make my own set of rules that would probably have been put into place due to the rules being made by Bern and Guard were too restrictive and I will say this, lying does not help where you stand, any of the Head Admin team, it will not help you and me and other EU_Union admins/former admins have seen how bad you run this server.

 

[Jammy]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

Under his watch yes but he also asked me to make my own set of rules that would probably have been put into place due to the rules being made by Bern and Guard were too restrictive and I will say this, lying does not help where you stand, any of the Head Admin team, it will not help you and me and other EU_Union admins/former admins have seen how bad you run this server.

lying? you just said it was under his watch so therefore it was Salva's rules. Everyone appears to blame everything on the current leadership so I don't see why the current leadership should be blamed for something that did not even happen when we where in charge.

 

[Blobmania]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

Under his watch yes but he also asked me to make my own set of rules that would probably have been put into place due to the rules being made by Bern and Guard were too restrictive and I will say this, lying does not help where you stand, any of the Head Admin team, it will not help you and me and other EU_Union admins/former admins have seen how bad you run this server.

With all due respect, who the hell do you think you are. I don't know (or care) who it was that determined which rules to implement, but how do you expect them to actually change anything if all you do is ride them into the ground about it. If you think a rule should be changed, make a goddamn polite post about which rules you think should be changed, your reasons why, and what you would suggest instead. This attitude of righteous entitlement you seem to have is not going to get you anywhere. All you're doing is *****ing, not actually giving any constructive criticism whatsoever.

Anyone who has a supposed "issue" with server rules but doesn't seem to be able to directly define which rules, give reasons and suggest changes, is in my opinion only here to cause trouble, and deserves to be ignored and warned for trying to instigate bull****. If you're only here to ***** with nothing actually helpful to say, then piss off.

 

[Stoniestpepper]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

Under his watch yes but he also asked me to make my own set of rules that would probably have been put into place due to the rules being made by Bern and Guard were too restrictive and I will say this, lying does not help where you stand, any of the Head Admin team, it will not help you and me and other EU_Union admins/former admins have seen how bad you run this server.

With all due respect, who the hell do you think you are. I don't know (or care) who it was that determined which rules to implement, but how do you expect them to actually change anything if all you do is ride them into the ground about it. If you think a rule should be changed, make a goddamn polite post about which rules you think should be changed, your reasons why, and what you would suggest instead. This attitude of righteous entitlement you seem to have is not going to get you anywhere. All you're doing is *****ing, not actually giving any constructive criticism whatsoever.

Anyone who has a supposed "issue" with server rules but doesn't seem to be able to directly define which rules, give reasons and suggest changes, is in my opinion only here to cause trouble, and deserves to be ignored and warned for trying to instigate bull****. If you're only here to ***** with nothing actually helpful to say, then piss off.

I tried yet I was met with the same stupidity as you, hostility I gave reasons they did not listen, so please look within the facts, when they IP banned me and lied about talking to Salva about it, I knew that hope for these people had failed. May I also ask who you are and what right you have to comment in such a way to me when I have done nothing towards you in any such way, I have been treated horrbilely by the Head Admin team of EU_Union and this is more or less a warning to people to stay away from them too, and also you call it such vile words, you speak like as if I am trying to start 'bull****' when they are the oens in themselves who have started the 'bull****' and trust me I have had admins/former admins come up to be and say that I was correct about how they would do it. Please look into facts, I do not wise to make you an enemy when you have branded me one without knowing me.

 

[Blizzarium]

The (rather strict) rules were created by a number of people including Salva/Guard. We're working on relaxing and adjusting them to make it a more enjoyable experience.

Uhm...no. Salva did not have anything to do with those rules other than trying to compromise with the 17th guys to take out as much as possible.

No I am sorry That is not the truth the Rule list was introduced under Salva's watch and as such we inherited it once Salva resigned.

Under his watch yes but he also asked me to make my own set of rules that would probably have been put into place due to the rules being made by Bern and Guard were too restrictive and I will say this, lying does not help where you stand, any of the Head Admin team, it will not help you and me and other EU_Union admins/former admins have seen how bad you run this server.

With all due respect, who the hell do you think you are. I don't know (or care) who it was that determined which rules to implement, but how do you expect them to actually change anything if all you do is ride them into the ground about it. If you think a rule should be changed, make a goddamn polite post about which rules you think should be changed, your reasons why, and what you would suggest instead. This attitude of righteous entitlement you seem to have is not going to get you anywhere. All you're doing is *****ing, not actually giving any constructive criticism whatsoever.

Anyone who has a supposed "issue" with server rules but doesn't seem to be able to directly define which rules, give reasons and suggest changes, is in my opinion only here to cause trouble, and deserves to be ignored and warned for trying to instigate bull****. If you're only here to ***** with nothing actually helpful to say, then piss off.

I tried yet I was met with the same stupidity as you, hostility I gave reasons they did not listen, so please look within the facts, when they IP banned me and lied about talking to Salva about it, I knew that hope for these people had failed. May I also ask who you are and what right you have to comment in such a way to me when I have done nothing towards you in any such way, I have been treated horrbilely by the Head Admin team of EU_Union and this is more or less a warning to people to stay away from them too, and also you call it such vile words, you speak like as if I am trying to start 'bull****' when they are the oens in themselves who have started the 'bull****' and trust me I have had admins/former admins come up to be and say that I was correct about how they would do it. Please look into facts, I do not wise to make you an enemy when you have branded me one without knowing me.

wtf are u talking about at  day 1 u whent against the rules..! so dont talk bull**** like u ever tryed .... u make me laugh, and the only thing  u did was complaining and u still do!

U used the admin powers for ur own benefits.. u didnt improve the server  u didnt help in any way u whas a total nuisance



and the reason we removed u is because  ur a spoiled  kid who  thinks he can do everything what others cant.

and u clearly broke tons of rules .and the  logs explains it very well.

 

[Stoniestpepper]

Guard, with the admin powers I had at the time I had no chance at all to spawn gold or anything to benefit myself, you removed the gold giving powers after I spawned a admin horse to assist someone in getting out of a glitch and I asked Jammy about that and he said it was because I apperantly abused it, which I did not, I'd love to see the logs of me abusing it. I was against the rules because they were stupid and un-needed to improve the server also I solved more complaints in ten minutes then your system did in one hour, so Guard in the minds of most of the admin team then, you were the problem.

 

[Jammy]

Guard, with the admin powers I had at the time I had no chance at all to spawn gold or anything to benefit myself, you removed the gold giving powers after I spawned a admin horse to assist someone in getting out of a glitch and I asked Jammy about that and he said it was because I apperantly abused it, which I did not, I'd love to see the logs of me abusing it. I was against the rules because they were stupid and un-needed to improve the server also I solved more complaints in ten minutes then your system did in one hour, so Guard in the minds of most of the admin team then, you were the problem.

So I am the Problem, Guard is the problem, Bern and Vodka and the current admin team are the problem. In addition the Rules and the server are the Problem. And Salva is the messiah

At the End of the Day Salva was in charge when half of your so called problems occurred so how is it the current leaderships fault?

 

[Stoniestpepper]

Guard, with the admin powers I had at the time I had no chance at all to spawn gold or anything to benefit myself, you removed the gold giving powers after I spawned a admin horse to assist someone in getting out of a glitch and I asked Jammy about that and he said it was because I apperantly abused it, which I did not, I'd love to see the logs of me abusing it. I was against the rules because they were stupid and un-needed to improve the server also I solved more complaints in ten minutes then your system did in one hour, so Guard in the minds of most of the admin team then, you were the problem.

So I am the Problem, Guard is the problem, Bern and Vodka and the current admin team are the problem. In addition the Rules and the server are the Problem. And Salva is the messiah

I never said he was, did I now?

 

[Erk]

I haven't been involved with the management of the server for the last 4-6 months, so I can't say much regarding rules, corrupt admins and similar issues.


However, when I contributed to the map (the idea of the map Borderlands was originally by Blucher and me), I understood  that from then on I stepped in a joint project and that I gave up individual ownership. Even if I didn't agree with the direction the server is taking (I honestly don't know much about it), I wouldn't think of trying to take the map back from them. It is not mine, it belongs to the "Union community".  As much as anything can belong to anyone here, which I believe is not much in a legal sense.


To the people jumping in the discussion without being non of your business, please step away from it. I am still the creator of this post and I will systematically report you. This is not a server bashing wall, I believe its purpose is thread is to make the server visible to the community and to post its relevant information. For what I understand, it is just a presentation post. All relevant communication between the administration and the player base is done in the external forum. Therefore, further clarifications on the server costs and such should be directed there. Otherwise, they taints this post, leaving a bad impression; this is unfair since detailed answer are provided in the external forum. As far as I can tell, Gishank has never refused to give explanations regarding the technical side of the server management.


Regarding the recent problems with the administration, I have to say that it is rather childish and doesn't seem to speak to how "professionally" the server is run. A bunch of former administration members disagreed with some recent changes and decided to sabotage the server. This thread was locked (abusing the trust I had placed on the person to whom I trusted my password to manage this) and  the server was attacked several times. Not very classy.

 

[Jammy]

Guard, with the admin powers I had at the time I had no chance at all to spawn gold or anything to benefit myself, you removed the gold giving powers after I spawned a admin horse to assist someone in getting out of a glitch and I asked Jammy about that and he said it was because I apperantly abused it, which I did not, I'd love to see the logs of me abusing it. I was against the rules because they were stupid and un-needed to improve the server also I solved more complaints in ten minutes then your system did in one hour, so Guard in the minds of most of the admin team then, you were the problem.

So I am the Problem, Guard is the problem, Bern and Vodka and the current admin team are the problem. In addition the Rules and the server are the Problem. And Salva is the messiah

I never said he was, did I now?

You did not attribute any blame to Salva and rather past on the Blame to the current leadership. If you are not happy with the rules then it is joint blame, Salva was in charge at the time. However we where members of the admin team and as such hold joint blame for the rules. However we are trying to change the rules and I hope you will give us the chance to introduce changes without attacking and criticizing before we even have the chance to change anything.

 

[S0mebody]

S0mebody, you have a valid point and I'll look in to tweaking the wording to make it more clear. As for the dynamically updating total, I was planning to rewrite the plugin (horribly buggy mess the current one) to implement this and other features with the management change yet haven't had the time. If we don't meet the target then the difference comes out of my backpocket to put it simply.

So in short anyone who donates for the PW server does not have their donation ring fenced, reliance on your 'backpocket' is potentially a betrayal of trust.

And hi Erk

 

[Raging Womble]

So you telling people in the server that in order to keep it going you need donations was a lie? Isnt that fraud?

 

[Peton]

So you telling people in the server that in order to keep it going you need donations was a lie? Isnt that fraud?

In short, yes Womble.

Spoiler: Definition of 'Fraud'

Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

 

[gamester494]

So you telling people in the server that in order to keep it going you need donations was a lie? Isnt that fraud?

Good to see you were banned from the server.