DubiousDoo
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You know they are already quite slow honestly. Try and play one. Some bows, yes, are very fast, especially with high skills, but those are usually small and quite weak. You even have issues one-hitting people with a headshot who don't wear any helmet.
I think however that for some bows and for lower skill, you should have worse precision. A bigger "minimum" recticle, if you will. Arrows should also fly a bit faster and further. Damage should be changed to cut on the majority of the arrows and bows as well, as many are pierce damage right now.
I think however that for some bows and for lower skill, you should have worse precision. A bigger "minimum" recticle, if you will. Arrows should also fly a bit faster and further. Damage should be changed to cut on the majority of the arrows and bows as well, as many are pierce damage right now.
The problem is largely the footwork. Sure, archers having insane projectile speed bows, with better equipment than their infantry counterparts doesn't help. However the main problem is that an infantry can't actually force an archer in to a melee fight if he gets close, the archer can do pretty well to kite nearly permanently in a skirmish setting. This problem is also present with large weapons against small weapons, and is exacerbated by time to block.
The chasing infantry has to pre-block a lot because 180 strikes/shots while they kite can breach time to block.
So to improve this I suggest the following:
- Improve the relative forward running speed compared to backward, turning and strafing speed to allow someone to catch up to a kiting opponent.
- Holding or performing a ranged attack should greatly reduce movement speed in all directions while on foot. As an aside this a smaller but still present speed nerf should occur with people using melee weapons, with a smaller nerf on forward running speed while attacking than sideways/backwards/turning. Essentially the goal on this is to allow people to get glued in to fights and making escaping non-trivial, but not necessarily impossible.
-Chase mechanic ala mordhau. This works well, but I understand if you don't want to copy this mechanic.
- Reintroduce the melee flinch against people holding ranged attacks.
- Add riding requirement please. It's in singleplayer, it should be in multiplayer. A kiting archer shouldn't be able to jump on a barded warhorse and escape without having to parry a single strike.
- Buff infantry equipment globally, for example tribal warrior should get a kaskara. Infantry should be able to always easily go for the sword shield spear equipment triangle that is necessary for them to function in skirmish
Yes I know all of this was likely suggested in beta, and they're afraid to add it as kiting is a SP player's best friend
so if you spam feints you just walk faster or how would it work? Infantry just needs to run faster than archers, which they ****ed up i hope they fix it again, once they fix their UI.
If you're chasing someone you get a speed bonus and eventually catch up with them, that's how it works in mordhau. I think it's unnecessary in bannerlord.
With all due respect, I don't think let infantry runs faster than archer or make them weaker is the solution. Every FPS game have had the "sniper problem", and we should solve that by clever map design. In the context of this game, I don't really mind in general how powerful archer and horses are compare to infantry, as long as the contests over objectives are designed to enforce close quarter melee that favors infantry. As for the infinite kiting problem, there is already a mechanism in place that lowers movement speed when switching weapons and when holding a bow, isn't it?
So you want to create a unit that is better in melee, than the designated melee unit. In addition it got good ranged abilities aswell as extra perk? If you want them to be good in melee (heavy archers) you need to reduce their ammunition significantly. 40 arrows is just an insane amount; which actually sums up to 80 arrows in a round, do you want to try to kill a whole army?
None of the maps is particular clever designed, the space must be really confined for the bannerlord cav to be bad. Maybe it worked out to balance cav over maps in warband, but it doesnt anymore in bannerlord. Most maps in bannerlord actually favor cavalry aswell, on one map its impossible to play archer; there are simple no safezones from couches so its full cav+flag pullers. Full infantry isnt even playable because cav can cap flags far quicker. I dont know how you would want to balance archers over maps in regards to archer vs infantry?
Just test running ingame, if you play a melee unit with a heavy shield then good luck catching up to an archer.
Well, obviously we agree that a "super unit" shouldn't exist. When we talk about units balancing we also need to put whole faction balance into context. In this sense, I'm not against making a archer better in melee than their own faction melee unit, IF the whole faction is balanced in that way. Like, veteran being better than tribal warrior in melee is totally fine with me, because the whole faction is designed to have weaker and cheaper specialist infantry with a good all-rounder heavy archer. It's not like the veteran is somehow better than other faction's heavy infantries in melee. Though I agree many parameters could be tweaked a bit, like arrow counts and movement speed. My point is there's nothing inherently wrong with archer running faster than infantry. In fact, most light infantries do run faster than archers, it's the heavy ones that run slower than archer, which I think is totally fine. They are not suppose to chase archers anyway.
However, in order for all of the above to work we need map designs to consider these. I do agree with you that most skirmish maps are poorly designed in this regard. All of them have complicated terrain and objects features in between flags, while the object areas themselves are really open. This is just the total opposite of what I would do. The classic dust 2 map from Counter Strike is a good example here: all the long corridors that suites long range weapons are on the way to the objectives not on the objectives themselves. Sniper is excellent during skirmishing phase and provide support, but ultimately one side needs "assault units" to push through and fight for the bomb points. I haven't played CS for ages but when I was still watching the games like 10 years ago, in a tense late game 1 v 1, players would often drop sniper rifle for a assault rifle.
The same logic applies here, the ideal map should allow the archers/skirmisher to sufficiently impact the outcome of the match during the approach phase by "skirmishing", but the flag area should be designed in a way to force melee. Right now, there's no "skirmish phase", the main fight IS the skirmish shoot out. It's not like we don't have those kind of areas on the map, it's just they are nowhere near the flag. We have plenty covers for the shooters but nothing for the units who are getting shot, which is just bizarre at best. The maps we have right now force melee units to chase archers into building complexes, it should be the other way around: the archer should be compelled by the objective timer to push into the building complex. For example, the A flag on the desert map, if you move the flag to the edge of the platform (the side without a ramp) rather than let it sit in the middle, the area become instantly more melee friendly. Right now an archer sit at one edge of the platform can cover BOTH the flag and the approach to it, which is just unacceptable.
Of course I'm just talking about range vs melee here. The balance between horse and foot need another post to rant.
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The problem isnt necessarily that 1 unit runs faster than the other, it's that there is no method for an infantry to force an archer to stay in melee combat. They can move omnidirectionally to escape, 180 turn to put pressure, so even if you catch up to an archer, it is only temporary. With team deathmatch and siege, this doesn't matter because no one is willing to put that much effort to preserve one life. However in skirmish and soon duel, it's annoyingly broken, as there is no mechanic that lets a person chasing catch up to someone who is attacking while moving away.
A light archer could still be faster than a heavy infantry, but still be caught up if they start trying to shoot while moving or doing the kiting based attacks that is so prevalent at the moment.
A light archer could still be faster than a heavy infantry, but still be caught up if they start trying to shoot while moving or doing the kiting based attacks that is so prevalent at the moment.
Archers are too accurate and broken at this moment but cavalries are much bigger problem than archers because there's literally nothing you can do about them. Spears are too short for stop them and their horses are amazingly tanky. They nerfed their cost but it doesn't change anything, maybe changed a lil bit. Don't even mention that horseback glaive and menavlion spammers lol. Menavlion nerfed but still unstoppable. For the record i'm not talking about skirmish right now it's all about TDM.
Archers are fast but when they draw an arrow, they are mostly vulnerable and you can catch them easily. Also most of them have little swords which deals 20-25 dmg max.
Archers are fast but when they draw an arrow, they are mostly vulnerable and you can catch them easily. Also most of them have little swords which deals 20-25 dmg max.
