Current battle player ratings
- Thread starter KaneMaB
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No. The division and opinion factor have absolutely nothing to do with stats.OurGloriousLeader said:
BD has always performed solid, hence why the opinion of all the people who rated him is positive._Osiris_ said:Clearly stats play a minor role in awarding such prestigious pointsThey are but a smoke screen for opinions!
Bloody Death is a top tier inf but if you are basing it mostly on stats he wouldn't be top 10 in wis/end of wnl (also ogl too high)
KaneMaB said:This list is a current one, starting now pretty much. I orginally did not plan to include WNL7 stats, but because of the lack of WIS stats thus far, I was forced to take a look at the final 1/2 weeks of WNL7. Puff is currently in division B, thus his scores will have less impact than it would have in division A. It's only the start of the tourney so anyone can be anywhere without it being a true acomplishment. As the tourney goes on, and he keeps playing well, no doubt he will go up.Gibby Jr said:You have vastly underrated puff, especially if you are accounting for WNL7 stats (which you claim you are).
In terms of stats he is the second highest placed malta infantry from that tournament, placing one place below bullez with only 7 games played (bullez has
KaneMaB said:BD has always performed solid, hence why the opinion of all the people who rated him is positive._Osiris_ said:Clearly stats play a minor role in awarding such prestigious points
Bloody Death is a top tier inf but if you are basing it mostly on stats he wouldn't be top 10 in wis/end of wnl (also ogl too high)
You are contradicting yourself here. In the first quote you are saying past performances aren't that important and that it's all about the WIS stats, and in the second quote you are saying BD is rated highly because of his past performances. To be clear, my opinion is that a current rating should be a balance of most recent performances and the potential that a player has shown in the past. The problem is that you are not using one criteria for all of your ratings, but are switching the criteria from player to player. Puff is low because he isn't smashing it in WIS, but BD is high cuz he was good in the past. I think your rating of BD is accurate; even though he isn't doing amazingly in WIS, everyone knows what level he can play at and it wouldn't make sense to give him a low rating. I think your rating of Puff is wrong, because even though he isn't doing amazingly in WIS, he was one of the top infantry in WNL7 and has played at a very high inf level in the past with teams like Sacrosanct and Malta.
You are misunderstanding what I am saying. I did not say that that BD was rated high because of his past performances... He is rated HIGHER because the performances he did in the past left all of the people I had rate him with a positive opinion. This doesn't mean he instantly goes up a ton, but it does affect his starting rating. His rating will go up or down depending on how he does in the upcomming weeks, same as for everyone else.Gibby Jr said:KaneMaB said:This list is a current one, starting now pretty much. I orginally did not plan to include WNL7 stats, but because of the lack of WIS stats thus far, I was forced to take a look at the final 1/2 weeks of WNL7. Puff is currently in division B, thus his scores will have less impact than it would have in division A. It's only the start of the tourney so anyone can be anywhere without it being a true acomplishment. As the tourney goes on, and he keeps playing well, no doubt he will go up.Gibby Jr said:You have vastly underrated puff, especially if you are accounting for WNL7 stats (which you claim you are).
In terms of stats he is the second highest placed malta infantry from that tournament, placing one place below bullez with only 7 games played (bullez has
KaneMaB said:BD has always performed solid, hence why the opinion of all the people who rated him is positive._Osiris_ said:Clearly stats play a minor role in awarding such prestigious points
Bloody Death is a top tier inf but if you are basing it mostly on stats he wouldn't be top 10 in wis/end of wnl (also ogl too high)
You are contradicting yourself here. In the first quote you are saying past performances aren't that important and that it's all about the WIS stats, and in the second quote you are saying BD is rated highly because of his past performances. To be clear, my opinion is that a current rating should be a balance of most recent performances and the potential that a player has shown in the past. The problem is that you are not using one criteria for all of your ratings, but are switching the criteria from player to player. Puff is low because he isn't smashing it in WIS, but BD is high cuz he was good in the past. I think your rating of BD is accurate; even though he isn't doing amazingly in WIS, everyone knows what level he can play at and it wouldn't make sense to give him a low rating. I think your rating of Puff is wrong, because even though he isn't doing amazingly in WIS, he was one of the top infantry in WNL7 and has played at a very high inf level in the past with teams like Sacrosanct and Malta.
Gibby Jr said:
You rated puff only 3 higher, Mynes was considered one of the best in WNL7 and is rated 87, normally due to consistency and wot not, if Puff played slightly better or the same as Bullez, are you asking him to gain an extra point? VASTLY UNDERRATED PUFF, even though he's only 3 points less on yours. Just like black tide being 90 on yours too. Puff played good, dont get me wrong, that's why he's 85, because he's good; 85 ain't a low rating you know? Are you going to argue about some more of your friends being rated lower than you expect?
Gibby you rated blacktide 90 and pusiak 90, where have they performed to even somewhat close to that standard recently? Nowhere. So I could pull a fat "no u" card here, and ask you how you rated them, and based on what?
Fietta said:
If anything I underrated Puff on my list to try and not be biased to people I'm friends with. There are other people I think Kane has underrated, but obviously I'm only going to argue the case for people I'm friends with. What is your point about BlackTide? He's only played one WIS match so I don't have a lot to go off there, but in WNL7 he put in a good performance in every match with ToiBois that he took part in (at least stats-wise). Combining that with the level he has been at in the past it seems obvious to me that he deserves a high rating.
85 isn't a low rating generally, but it is a low rating for someone that is able to compete with the top infantry in the game. 87 is debatably too harsh for Mynes as well, but even if that is the case it doesn't make Puff's rating any less wrong. 3 points is a big difference, especially at that mid 80s level, which essentially separates a top group B/low group A player from a mid-group A player - which Puff undeniably is.
Which is exactly what kane did.Gibby Jr said:
Still wondering how u came to rate pusiak 90, based of what?
Gibby Jr said:
Before Senate was formed for WIS, we had a chat about potential players for the Senate 'do we want to get Puff or not?' was the question in question? The reason we wanted him was because he's good friends with Senate and he's a decent player, however, we decided that Puff has been stale since Sacrosanct, not improved or 'shown' anything worth noting, so we wanted him to stay in Malta to prove that he's improving. Both you and I know exactly the potential and how our close friends have played over the years as they're usually the people you'd keep an eye on. We both agreed that Puff hasn't really been improving over the years, I remember quite clearly the conversation we were having about him. Asking around the place by playing, watching and observing different teams and being in teamspeaks recently, one of the main conversations that was raised was discussion about your list and Kanes. Firstly, Puff was instantly mentioned as being 'too high' on your list, Puff isn't hated in the community so there's no complete bias when it comes to opinions, so it became a meme. On the other hand new additions like BlackTide being on your list at 90 when he's not performed '90' since 2015, he's played in tournaments since and has always played in mediocre teams at a mediocre level. He's obviously got high potential, but he hasn't shown it in years, so it's not worth putting him high from his recent performances. It's odd because we both share similar opinions on Puff as a player and never really disagreed with his rating, It's just you're not entirely using your brain. 85 is a good and solid placement as base, but can easily go higher if what you say is true (although would be much harder because group B). 'compete against top infantry' is a very BOLD statement to make.
I also don't know why you're arguing about Puff and not raising an issue with BlackTide being rated 6 lower than on yours.
Condemned Bas said:
BlackTide in WNL7:
Sponge in WNL7:
I am using Sponge as an example because Kane has given them both 84 points on his list and they both played in div A in WNL7. For Sponge I think that is a fair rating, but I think it's obvious to literally anyone that clicks on the stats page and actually looks at BlackTide's performances that he deserves a rating of at least upper 80s for his recent play.
Fietta said:
I think the stats support that BlackTide is still at least an upper 80s level infantry; the exact number is debatable, and I decided on 90, but 84 is laughably low for how he is actually playing.
On Puff:
Fietta said:
If being 6th on The Butchers and 6th on The Hoplites in Division A doesn't mean you are competing with top infantry, then I don't know how else I can prove it.
Here's another stat and rating comparison:
Puff in WNL7:
Kani in WNL7:
Kane has given both of them 85 on his list, despite Puff obviously playing at a higher level than Kani despite being in a worse team. This isn't flame at Kani, I think he deserves a strong mid 80s rating, but Kane is blatantly ignoring statistics (or simply didn't look at them) with his rating of Puff.
Finally, you've decided to argue about BlackTide, that's what I expected originally but I guess you were just too focused on Puff. If you're telling me playing spearman against top players is considered to be able to COMPETE with top infantry, is laughable, that more-so means they're able to support infantry, rather than actually compete with the opposing infantry. Both you and I agree that Puff can't compare to many group A infantry in terms of individual skill, mainly in places such as group fights, most spearmen are able to compete directly such as players like Habimana. Puff would ultimately perform identical with a spear in hand regardless of the group he's in, the only skill that would put him above others in the lower groups would be like game knowledge and leadership. Positioning, Awareness, Individual Skill and teamplay all contribute to be a 'top infantry', playing a spearman only 'requires' awareness and positioning. Getting in the top 10 for spear kills is fantastic, however, you've actually got to remember you normally have 1 spearman per team, so the competition is far less. Spearman is probably the most important role, that does not mean that it's harder than playing a normal infantry (which is far harder).
Fietta said:
Since you focused on the spearman aspect, when that wasn't my main point, here is my reply with that bit edited out:
On Puff:
Fietta said:
If being 6th on The Butchers in Division A doesn't mean you are competing with top infantry, then I don't know how else I can prove it.
Here's another stat and rating comparison:
Puff in WNL7:
Kani in WNL7:
Kane has given both of them 85 on his list, despite Puff obviously playing at a higher level than Kani despite being in a worse team. This isn't flame at Kani, I think he deserves a strong mid 80s rating, but Kane is blatantly ignoring statistics (or simply didn't look at them) with his rating of Puff.
Stop ignoring my point on pusiak, i'd like you to tell me how you rated him, and based on what.
Again, 85 is reasonable considering the stats you've given, I don't care about the positioning of player nearby. Potential is obviously taken into consideration, that's very clear. You should be asking the question 'Who'd you'd rather have on your team?' and I can assure you, there's a lot of people who don't rate Puff the same as you do, and I could probably guarantee that every other Group A team (apart from the once was Group B team Malta) would pick someone else over him given the option, because he's good just not good enough. Much of Malta's players are rated lower than everyone else in group A, because they're just not that good individually but perform really good as a team.
Fietta said:
Here is a list of players Kane has rated above Puff that had worse stats than him in WNL7:
Puff's stats as reference:
Puff's K/D: 0.76
Kani's K/D: 0.48
Fietta's K/D: 0.67
Tomayus' K/D: 0.73
Rinde's K/D: 0.72
Eder's K/D: 0.70
Dr_Doener's K/D: 0.62
Do you see how Puff was competing with top infantry now? He got one of the best K/D ratios of any infantry in WNL7 Div A, he was on the top killers for 1h weapons and spears, was one of the highest overall in the League table despite being an infantry and not playing every match and wasn't playing in a team that was winning every match, but one that finished 5th in the Div A league stage and 3rd in the tournament overall.
To be clear, I think Kane's ratings on all of the players I referenced here (Kani, Fietta, Tomayus, Habi, Eder, Dr_Doener) are fairly accurate, but for whatever reason he has rated Puff far lower than most of them (10 points lower in some cases). Puff deserves an upper 80s rating because he has proven that he is capable of competing with top infantry. All of the statistics support that, but because it disagrees with your existing opinion you don't want to acknowledge that fact.
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