Battlefield 1

[Temuzu]

I dug far and deep in my folders for this:

Spoiler

Really makes you think...

I don't get it? You don't like melee hitmarkers, or you've got something against black soldiers?

It appears the Germans didn't use any African troops on the Western Front at all.

I've a problem with how DICE is portraying the armies. You know somethings off when DICE has time to represent the few (If any) Africans serving in the German army on the Western front, while leaving the French out of the game completely.

Like its been discussed, this game is aiming for a mainstream audience, as expected, so it will quite possibly be the first exposure a lot of kids are going to have with WW1. It rustles my jimmies mightily to think that thanks to this game, some kids are going to think that a large number of the combatants on the Western front were not even European. Its going to be Enemy at the Gates with the human waves all over again.

Of course, the footage looks like its from multiplayer, so maybe the characters are custom made, which would be just fine.

 

[Almalexia]

I mean, the Soviets did use human waves, that did definitely happen. I'm not sure it happened back in Stalingrad, but by the time they were transferring veterans out and forced to conscript tons of new troops in by the time of the invasion of Prussia, they didn't have enough training to do much else. From what I read they were sending them in lines twelve rows thick at times. So many untrained troops led to the kind of massacres and retributions throughout East Prussia to boot. But then the Prussian campaign in general was an apocalyptic human cluster**** of utterly depressing proportions, so it isn't out of character.

 

[Bluehawk]

Are you being ironic?

 

[Almalexia]

Source would be Battleground Prussia: The Assault on Germany's Eastern Front 1944-45 by Prit Buttar. If you'd like page numbers and subsequent references I can supply them.

 

[TheFlyingFishy]

Wait, serious question time: Did the Soviets not frequently/ever use human wave tactics? I was always under that impression, and I didn't get it from Enemy at the Gates. I think it's just a culmination of all media. I mean, I know that wasn't their only tactic, but I've read of historical instances where the tactic was used.

 

[Almalexia]

I'd say it depends on the timeframe, the unit at hand, and circumstances, from what I've read, and I have definitely done a fair amount of reading, though I'm no dedicated scholar. Really as far as I can tell they definitely used it at multiple points during the war, which is why claims to the contrary (which I've really only seen on this forum) puzzles me, but I'd appreciate input from the other side on the issue.

 

[Bluehawk]

I find it very suspect that East Prussia and Brandenburg were occupied by predominantly fresh conscripts, considering that the draft of 1943 only raised 1,555,000 men, and the last draft of the war, in '44, raised 1,156,727; while 11 million were still serving. The rotation system was to preserve the veterancy of combat units and ensured that replacements were evenly distributed across the front among experienced men. And even those replacements that were being assigned to combat units were not only trained in their units before rotation back to the front, but also received preparatory training before their conscription and/or mobilization from the Komsomol.

If crossing open ground with full armour support, local air superiority, heavy preliminary artillery barrages rolling ahead and MG and mortar teams integrated at the platoon, company and battalion levels counts as a "human wave", then yes, the Soviets were still using them, but so were the western Allies - only the proportion of infantry and the constraints of the terrain differed, fundamentally. Deep Operations Doctrine, which succeeded in shattering the whole German eastern front during Operation Bagration, required dense concentrations at a limited number of positions in order to breakthrough and expand in the enemy's rear, achieving tactical superiority at the risk of operational instability. For those Germans witnesses on the defending side unfortunate enough to see these build-ups, it probably reinforced the "teeming Asiatic hordes" image drilled into them, but I'd take any witness below Major General with a grain of salt. The fog of war is simply too thick at lower levels.

 

[Almalexia]

I'll crack open the book tomorrow and see if I can find the relevant passages for yah. I didn't say predominately though, for the record. 

 

[Lumos]

I've a problem with how DICE is portraying the armies. You know somethings off when DICE has time to represent the few (If any) Africans serving in the German army on the Western front, while leaving the French out of the game completely.

Like its been discussed, this game is aiming for a mainstream audience, as expected, so it will quite possibly be the first exposure a lot of kids are going to have with WW1. It rustles my jimmies mightily to think that thanks to this game, some kids are going to think that a large number of the combatants on the Western front were not even European. Its going to be Enemy at the Gates with the human waves all over again.

Of course, the footage looks like its from multiplayer, so maybe the characters are custom made, which would be just fine.

A very valid point, and one that's extremely unlikely to even cross my mind. I won't dismiss it as tall tales though: when I was little, I also based my ideas for the Native American tribes based on their units in American Conquest...
But hey, since we're getting "Harlem Hellfighters" (who?) and "Lawrence of Arabia" (I didn't even know that guy was an army officer) as pre-order DLC, perhaps we could get "French Forces Frontier" as the first DLC pack... I mean, it's not like a large country with a war happening in it is more important than some random US regiment that fought from 1917 onwards, as decorated as they might be, or more important than... well, I actually know nothing about Lawrence of Arabia (except that there's a wide-screen film with expansive desert shots with his name on it), but I'm willing to wager a country is more important than him.

It must've been multiplayer footage, though. Showing off the probaby-the-same-as-Battlefront character customisation. Hopefully.

 

[Krik]

France is gay tho

 

[Lumos]

not in ww1 it wasn't

 

[Captured Joe]

I mean, the Soviets did use human waves, that did definitely happen. I'm not sure it happened back in Stalingrad, but by the time they were transferring veterans out and forced to conscript tons of new troops in by the time of the invasion of Prussia, they didn't have enough training to do much else. From what I read they were sending them in lines twelve rows thick at times. So many untrained troops led to the kind of massacres and retributions throughout East Prussia to boot. But then the Prussian campaign in general was an apocalyptic human cluster**** of utterly depressing proportions, so it isn't out of character.

Et tu, Almalexa?

 

[Beny]

Like its been discussed, this game is aiming for a mainstream audience, as expected, so it will quite possibly be the first exposure a lot of kids are going to have with WW1. It rustles my jimmies mightily to think that thanks to this game, some kids are going to think that a large number of the combatants on the Western front were not even European. Its going to be Enemy at the Gates with the human waves all over again.

This is a concern of mine. More so that kids will think WW1 was a moblile war with semi-automatic rifles as standard. Also I'll bet money on it that the campaign will have a deep moral purpose, with very clearly defined 'bad guys'.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Looking it up, it seems that they were descended from African soldiers in the French occupying army, so I was wrong. It appears the Germans didn't use any African troops on the Western Front at all. Unlike in Africa, where they absolutely did.

That was my point. In Africa, the Schutztruppe was a troop of African soldiers with German officers.
Having them in the Western Front scenarios is just Dice being Swedish and EA being Bioware.

 

[Vovolov]

All as detestable as the others. Especially the Swedes.

 

[BenKenobi]

In MP: British, German, Austro-Hungarian, Italian, Ottoman, and American.

(https://twitter.com/Battlefield/status/742475469140824064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

They literally admitted doing a ww1 game that does not include the two most important Allied countries  Please, make next battlefield a Napoleonic game with France v. Britain + Prussia only (and US DLC).

 

[Swissky]

 

[Lumos]

This makes being a fanboy a little difficult. Note how the guy says "at launch". FR/RU DLC packs inbound.

 

[Temuzu]

I mean, the Soviets did use human waves, that did definitely happen. I'm not sure it happened back in Stalingrad, but by the time they were transferring veterans out and forced to conscript tons of new troops in by the time of the invasion of Prussia, they didn't have enough training to do much else. From what I read they were sending them in lines twelve rows thick at times. So many untrained troops led to the kind of massacres and retributions throughout East Prussia to boot. But then the Prussian campaign in general was an apocalyptic human cluster**** of utterly depressing proportions, so it isn't out of character.

Of course it happened, stereotypes exist for a reason after all, I'm just saying that it wasn't as common as people might think. By human waves I of course meant how it went in the movie, with a mass of poorly equipped infantry charging a line of machine guns and tanks, not the type that Bluehawk described. Those human wave tactics were pretty common during the early Winter War though, since there was little alternative because of the poor terrain and being in a hurry, not to mention Stalin had just finished his purges.

Like its been discussed, this game is aiming for a mainstream audience, as expected, so it will quite possibly be the first exposure a lot of kids are going to have with WW1. It rustles my jimmies mightily to think that thanks to this game, some kids are going to think that a large number of the combatants on the Western front were not even European. Its going to be Enemy at the Gates with the human waves all over again.

This is a concern of mine. More so that kids will think WW1 was a moblile war with semi-automatic rifles as standard. Also I'll bet money on it that the campaign will have a deep moral purpose, with very clearly defined 'bad guys'.

Oh yeah, that too.

 

[BenKenobi]

Regarding the human wave, it is one thing to be tacticool in France, with hedges, hills and all, and quite the other to be tacticool on the Ukrainian plains.