battana needs a non-noble archer

[ogredpowell]

TLDR: Archer faction needs cheap armor option


fighting battania on 1.4.2. Its been easy on the field, and brutal in seiges- due to the lack of a non-noble archer, the Battania armies do not have many archers (maybe 10 or so in a 150-300 army) but their garrisions often have 50+fians.

On the field, this causes them to LOSE a lot of tactical flexibility, esp against the AI. given I can rain arrows on them, I can choose the engagement every time making it easy to wipe them.

This is problematic in sieges, as suddenly the AI has lots of fians available who are brutal behind walls.

Solution? Non-noble archer (just like even though Vlandia and Khuzhait have noble cav and horse archers as well as a peasant version). This will allow the AI to take defensive field positions, and staff their castles with NORMAL archers.

Off topic: seems to be no point in oathsworn, wildlings are just better. might be worth outfiting the oathsworn as the wildlings, make the wildings an archer unit (and maybe the vet skirmisher?).

also, get rid of the scout and make just one battania cav unit that has javelins and spear. they dont need two non-noble cav options, their cav just has to be anti cav

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I don't think its wise to get rid of two whole unit options like you suggest. I'd much rather see Wildlings receive a second pack of javelins to make them more dedicated skirmisher infantry and give Oathsworn a bigger highland shield, more armour and improved spear AI. Right now Oathsworn suck and are pointless to use.

Do get rid of the scout/horseman line though. Battania ends up with too much cavalry, which makes their armies look very un-Battanian.

I haven't updated it in a while, but the mod I made does exactly that. Here's a basic image of the tree:

Spoiler

It even has the javelin lance cavalry that you suggested.

 

[Gelimer]

Yes I would agree with replacing one cav unit with a ranged unit like slingers or archers would make sense for Battania.

Slingers and chariots would be a cool addition but that is more work.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Yes I would agree with replacing one cav unit with a ranged unit like slingers or archers would make sense for Battania.

Slingers and chariots would be a cool addition but that is more work.

I dunno about the suitability of chariots in the highlands Battania is situated in. A sort of lowland subfaction of Iceni inspired Battanians would be great though.

Slings might be interesting though.

Now I really wanna see an Antiquity mod.

 

[Liffy]

agree oathsworn are trash. I see the point about a non noble archer. I'd make a slinger line that starts on foot but progresses to mounted. I think oathsworn just need some love rather than removal.

 

[Slithy]

Off topic: seems to be no point in oathsworn, wildlings are just better.

I really disagree with this. Oathsworn are tankier and help your infantry behave like infantry instead of skirmishers when using commands.

 

[Folcwald]

Nah, sieges are literally the reason to play Battania. Their cavalry sucks and their infantry sucks if you use them normally.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I really disagree with this. Oathsworn are tankier and help your infantry behave like infantry instead of skirmishers when using commands.

Their only source of tankiness comes from their lovely helmet. Otherwise they have crappy shoulder armour and arm armour compared to Wildlings. And with their new baby highlander shields, they fare poorly as an effective line infantry man.

They got better polearm skill than wildlings, but they use spears so they absolutely suck. Also skills don't do anything in game atm, so they're just useless. No reason to ever invest in the clan warrior path, far better off just staying with the Woodrunner path. Wildlings, Veteran Falxmen and maybe Mounted Skirmishers are the best you can hope for in a mainline Battanian army.

And that sucks. R2TW helped me fall in love with the cultured, iron working Celts. That and the Oathsworn of the Arvenii were a real menace. Seeing them suck so bad here is disappointing.

 

[Slithy]

Their only source of tankiness comes from their lovely helmet. Otherwise they have crappy shoulder armour and arm armour compared to Wildlings. And with their new baby highlander shields, they fare poorly as an effective line infantry man.

They got better polearm skill than wildlings, but they use spears so they absolutely suck. Also skills don't do anything in game atm, so they're just useless. No reason to ever invest in the clan warrior path, far better off just staying with the Woodrunner path. Wildlings, Veteran Falxmen and maybe Mounted Skirmishers are the best you can hope for in a mainline Battanian army.

And that sucks. R2TW helped me fall in love with the cultured, iron working Celts. That and the Oathsworn of the Arvenii were a real menace. Seeing them suck so bad here is disappointing.

I thought last i checked that they actually had better armor than wildlings, but it appears you are right. Not massively different, but still slightly inferior.

I still prefer having my infantry not trying to skirmish when i tell them to advance though.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I thought last i checked that they actually had better armor than wildlings, but it appears you are right. Not massively different, but still slightly inferior.

I still prefer having my infantry not trying to skirmish when i tell them to advance though.

I use them like I use legionaries. Take a position, huck javelins at oncoming enemies and then charge in. I honestly wished they packed more javelins though.

 

[Slithy]

I use them like I use legionaries. Take a position, huck javelins at oncoming enemies and then charge in. I honestly wished they packed more javelins though.

You can always use lake rat wreckers for that.

I use my infantry with different tactics, so I suppose it makes sense we value different things.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

You can always use lake rat wreckers for that.

I use my infantry with different tactics, so I suppose it makes sense we value different things.

Lake rat wreckers suck though. They are limited at t4 and are difficult to get. I won't ever go out of my way to recruit them, or any minor faction atm.

Wildlings are just easier to get and do the job admirably.