Banners rehash project

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Dimka said:
Oh, and while we are at this - does anybody else thinks that only two heraldic-friendly armors in game are not enough? (At least I think there are only two...)

actually, there are 4, but I had to look at the item_kinds1.txt to figure that out. You've got the heraldic mail with surcoat and with tabard, and apparently there are 2 heraldic mail with tunics, which both appear in game as simply "heraldic mail". I can see why you could only think there are 2, the tabard and both of the tunics look extremely similar to each other.
 
Those banners are fantastic looking, im also rather unimpressed by the vanilla banners. I will definitely download this once you get it done =) 
 
Thanks everyone for your kind words!

murphy9926 said:
Will there be certain banners just for the player to choose from or will they all be available. Id like to see that the player has a unique flag that only they fly.

Other then most peasant and mercenary units i don't see why followers of a lord shouldn't carry his colors. Would make battles between lords much more realistic as the colors clash.

This is not a mod, this will be just a graphic fix. You can use any of the flags, and lord whose flag you are stolen will get "default" flag (red checkers in vanilla, red-blue checkers with silver sunburst in my version). There aren't any lord who got "default" flag at start.

Obviously, if you want to left all lords with their flags, you just should choose "default" one yourself. And obviously, you can use any banner from any source, overwriting red checkers one or my sunburst one to have unique customized banner.

Of course, if anyone wants to change this approach to something more elegant - that is fine. My flags are free to use/modify for every modder, of course in exchange for due credit.

The one thing that plagues me at the moment is the fact about some... distortion in textures' files. We have 1024x1024 textures, 3 banners vertically and 7 banners horizontally. 1024/7=146,(285714) and 1024/3=341,(3). I am using 140x340 because this is pretty close. But as everyone who checked banners' texture files know, they are somewhat crooked and different, not all of them even got similar size and borders in between aren't always sharp enough. I understand that somewhere it is said for every lord which banner, which parts of banners texture file he should use - like "from point with coordinates x.y to point with coordinates x1.y1" or something.
If anybody knows which file should be fixed to make all lords using straight 140x340 without any borders - please, tell me about that.

Another thing I've noticed while checking out all lords and their banners: the ones used by claimants are also used by five Rhodok lords. That's the reason why none of claimants (except Kastor of Veluca) got their faction's tincture in their banners. I tried to make them fitting both for claimants and for some unknown Rhodok lords, but I think I failed in case of Dustum Khan :smile: Well, no matter.

As you can see, my banners looks pretty bright and clear, I know that not everyone loves this, but I had three reasons in mind while doing them without dirt, with bright colours.
1 - These are the flags for royalty. Let everyone else be covered in mud, Kings should differ.
2 - Theoretically it is much more easy to "stain" an image than to clear the stains, and thus any person interested in making my banners more dirty and grim is welcome to do this.
3 - While I do have several years of professional Photoshop experience (ex-graphical designer, ex-chief of design department, all that ****), I don't have an idea "how to do awesome stains" right away in my head. Of course, if I will spend some time thinking about this, I'll find some algorithm, but not really interested in doing this anyway, because of reasons #1 and #2.

matt b said:
actually, there are 4, but I had to look at the item_kinds1.txt to figure that out. You've got the heraldic mail with surcoat and with tabard, and apparently there are 2 heraldic mail with tunics, which both appear in game as simply "heraldic mail". I can see why you could only think there are 2, the tabard and both of the tunics look extremely similar to each other.

Ah, well this fact doesn't changes anything :smile: I think even peasants could have at least coloured ribbon on their arm. If you will check top left screenshot of guy in Harlaus' colours, you can see that heraldic mail already covers this - part of heraldry wraps around the arm.

Well, even if we count peasants out, it doesn't changes the fact that more advanced faction troops simply must show some respect and loyalty to their lord in displaying his colours.

Lokai said:
Those banners are fantastic looking, im also rather unimpressed by the vanilla banners. I will definitely download this once you get it done =) 

Actually you can use them right now, at least kings could get some love in form of fancy dyed cloth hanging around :smile:

Oh well, time to draw some Swadian flags anyway :wink: See you later!
 
Although not nearly as good as yours, here's my own attempt at a Swadian banner:
swadiacrossyq6.jpg
 
Dimka said:
Thanks everyone for your kind words!

murphy9926 said:
Will there be certain banners just for the player to choose from or will they all be available. Id like to see that the player has a unique flag that only they fly.

Other then most peasant and mercenary units i don't see why followers of a lord shouldn't carry his colors. Would make battles between lords much more realistic as the colors clash.

This is not a mod, this will be just a graphic fix. You can use any of the flags, and lord whose flag you are stolen will get "default" flag (red checkers in vanilla, red-blue checkers with silver sunburst in my version). There aren't any lord who got "default" flag at start.

Obviously, if you want to left all lords with their flags, you just should choose "default" one yourself. And obviously, you can use any banner from any source, overwriting red checkers one or my sunburst one to have unique customized banner.
+1 modding skill for an Epic Win.  :grin:
Great job.
Of course, if anyone wants to change this approach to something more elegant - that is fine. My flags are free to use/modify for every modder, of course in exchange for due credit.

The one thing that plagues me at the moment is the fact about some... distortion in textures' files. We have 1024x1024 textures, 3 banners vertically and 7 banners horizontally. 1024/7=146,(285714) and 1024/3=341,(3). I am using 140x340 because this is pretty close. But as everyone who checked banners' texture files know, they are somewhat crooked and different, not all of them even got similar size and borders in between aren't always sharp enough. I understand that somewhere it is said for every lord which banner, which parts of banners texture file he should use - like "from point with coordinates x.y to point with coordinates x1.y1" or something.
If anybody knows which file should be fixed to make all lords using straight 140x340 without any borders - please, tell me about that.

Another thing I've noticed while checking out all lords and their banners: the ones used by claimants are also used by five Rhodok lords. That's the reason why none of claimants (except Kastor of Veluca) got their faction's tincture in their banners. I tried to make them fitting both for claimants and for some unknown Rhodok lords, but I think I failed in case of Dustum Khan :smile: Well, no matter.

As you can see, my banners looks pretty bright and clear, I know that not everyone loves this, but I had three reasons in mind while doing them without dirt, with bright colours.
1 - These are the flags for royalty. Let everyone else be covered in mud, Kings should differ.
2 - Theoretically it is much more easy to "stain" an image than to clear the stains, and thus any person interested in making my banners more dirty and grim is welcome to do this.
3 - While I do have several years of professional Photoshop experience (ex-graphical designer, ex-chief of design department, all that ****), I don't have an idea "how to do awesome stains" right away in my head. Of course, if I will spend some time thinking about this, I'll find some algorithm, but not really interested in doing this anyway, because of reasons #1 and #2.

matt b said:
actually, there are 4, but I had to look at the item_kinds1.txt to figure that out. You've got the heraldic mail with surcoat and with tabard, and apparently there are 2 heraldic mail with tunics, which both appear in game as simply "heraldic mail". I can see why you could only think there are 2, the tabard and both of the tunics look extremely similar to each other.

Ah, well this fact doesn't changes anything :smile: I think even peasants could have at least coloured ribbon on their arm. If you will check top left screenshot of guy in Harlaus' colours, you can see that heraldic mail already covers this - part of heraldry wraps around the arm.

Well, even if we count peasants out, it doesn't changes the fact that more advanced faction troops simply must show some respect and loyalty to their lord in displaying his colours.

Lokai said:
Those banners are fantastic looking, im also rather unimpressed by the vanilla banners. I will definitely download this once you get it done =) 

Actually you can use them right now, at least kings could get some love in form of fancy dyed cloth hanging around :smile:

Oh well, time to draw some Swadian flags anyway :wink: See you later!
 
And, ladies and gentlemen - let me present you with some banners for lucky Swadian lords!

Top row: Klargus, Plais, Mirchaud, Stamar, Ryis
Bottom row: Meltor, Beranz, Rafard, Regas, Grainwad

swadia1dr0.png


To be continued.

Still need volunteers to cover some factions. C'mon, I know there are many talented heraldic artists here!
 
The banners of Klargus and Regas are particularly uber.

I'd love to volunteer, but I suspect my "style" would just look out of place.
 
Could you show me some of your previous works?

If you will create all Vaegir line, for example, while all of them will be in similar style, with healthy quantities of green, silver and 2-headed eagles, with some horses and flowers, and fitting on tabard and shield - it may be even better if they will differ from Swadian, Nord, Khergit and Rhodok ones. As you may have noticed, my Khergit banners are very different from Swadian and other "european" factions' banners. Just finished another one Khergit banner, but won't publish it for a while. It looks pretty, eh, barbaric and definitely fails to even hope to fit into heraldic rules, but I suppose every true Khergit just says "**** you" to all that "western" stuff :smile:

But, of course, if your style is radically different - it could be a problem.
 
Hey, they are pretty fine!

If you could add some geometry as stripes or checkers on some banners - you already did it on 77 page - then you are welcome! I prefer less "3d" banners, and you are able to do them. I. e., this and this looks much better than this or this, because first ones looks more "bannerish", realistic on cloth and wood, while two others are kinda too sharp and photorealistic.

Vaegirs, right? :wink: It's better to use "one man per faction" rule. Factions should be somewhat homogenous per se, but they can and should differ from each other. Basically I hope to bring this project to the state when it would be possible to discern faction from simple glance upon the banner, even if "faction tincture" is not dominant.

Vaegir suggestions: green, brown and silvery-white, though other colours are welcome. Bright green is their faction colour, and it is better to use it at least sparingly on most banners, like I did with orange on Stamar and Regas' banners. Though if you are using 2-headed eagle or horse+axe / axe+bow, you can ignore green colour at all. Recommended charges: 2-headed eagle - Vaegir unique; axe, bow, horse, flowers (someone have to take them, both roses and tulips, and they should look awesome in green pallete). Some pseudo-"christian" tendencies are welcome, I mean crosses and stuff. There won't be any crosses in Swadian banners, because Swadia seems to be purely secular state. Both curved and straight swords are welcome, and bardiches would be really nice addition here and there.
Deers! Sorry, Khergits, but "silvery deer head on black background" one will die. It is awesome, but it should be with other guys. Deers are for Vaegirs.
While Vaegirs are a cavalry nation, it seems that I snatched horseshoe as another Swadian symbol - just look at Mirchaud :wink: You can use it, but not as main motif.

For Swadians I am using "rule of ranks". Similar guideline system may or may be not used for Vaegirs and Rhodok. Nords and Khergits, I suppose, are out - they are too different. Rule of ranks is, basically, a suggection on "how complex this or that lord's banner should be?"

Lord owns a capital: King - extremely complex banner.
Lord owns a city: Marquis/Duke - very complex banner on par with King's one.
Lord owns a castle and a village: Count - somewhat more simple banner, usually with single charge or not too complex combination of several charges.
Lord owns two villages: Baron - complex geometrical background, usually no charges.
Lord owns only one village: Knight - simple background with only geometrical decorations, no charges.

As I said, these are just a suggestions, and you are by no means obliged to follow them :smile:
 
Okay, so: Two-headed eagles, deer, axes, horses, and bows. Green, brown, silver-white. 2D only. Rank-by-rank.

To the Bannerisation Mobile!

... I'll get my coat.
 
Of course, some red, black, blue, purple and gold and whatever else are welcome too.
And bows should not work with horses on the same banner, that's the other guys :smile:

Yay! Happy to know that there is even less work to do.

Rhodoks and Khergits anyone? :wink:
 
hey I am new here it is my first comment,I would like to know how to make a banner looks like a real banner because when I do banners they will look like a pie
So pls help me to find a realy good banner with good graphics and I will edit it  :smile:
 
I don't want to challenge this project or else, I just did that banner change some time ago, so I'm here to share.

I've used photoshop CS2 with a .dds pluggin. For the standards I've use those you can find on wikipedia under heraldry.

Each faction has a proper theme.

Here are the Kings banners:

Since Swadians and Vaegir are supposed to be part of the same kingdom, I gave their Kings a Lion theme, with a Black lion for Swadians, and White lion for Vaegir (for those of you that know FFTactics, I just took the designs of Larg and Goltana)
I gave the Nord a Norman and cross theme (The king's banner is the Norman banner)
I gave the Rodhoks a Holy Roman Empire theme.

The rest of the banners here are a mix up between Nord, Swadians, Vaegir and Rodhoks.


Here are banners for the Swadians and Vaegirs. Swadians have a dominant red ,yellow, and black theme. Vaegirs are more blue and white. I've used the lily for both factions, but yellow and red for swadians, and white and blue for vaegirs.



Here are the Nords banners. I've used Norman, Viking and English theme for them



Here are the Khergit banners. I've used Japanese mons as well as a variety of colours to give them a more oriental feeling (they master the dye road?!?)



Finally you got the Rhodoks banners. I've used German, Switz, Eastern France theme, since they're using pikes.




I've tried to stick to heraldic rules, and most of the banners respect those rules. The banners also fit shields and uniforms.

If you could send me the non coloured banner from ingame you're using to make your own, I'd gladly redo mines.

Cheers.
 
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