Allocating all attribute points at the start of the game

[Totalgarbage]

This isn't necessarily a suggestion, but more of a discussion. Do you think that we should be able to allocate all our attribute points at character creation? For example, we get 8-11 free attribute points depending on the starting age (let's say that the average level at the end of a playthrough is around 32 so we get 32/4=8 attributes guaranteed) in addition to the attribute and skill points we get from character creation choices but no more attribute points for the rest of the game (except for athletics and smithing perks that give out free attribute points).

I don't want to discuss about a major overhaul of the levelling system, giving attributes other effects or about learning rates or whatever, since it's been discussed many times already. Just want to talk about whether having the ability to allocate all attribute points at the start would be better/worse, more/less enjoyable in your opinion.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yes I think it should be an option. As is, there's too many miss matched or wasted choices, only a few sets of choices will result in not taking worthless skills or too many unneeded attributes.
Edit: I mean for the normal character creation points, I don't know why you would need to start pre-leveled up or with extra points, but I guess as an option it would be okay.

Just want to talk about whether having the ability to allocate all attribute points at the start would be better/worse, more/less enjoyable in your opinion.

Yeah there's nothing enjoyable about the current background questions, free points would be much better.

 

[SadMoney]

I've seen developers try to implement these "background questionnaires" or "psychological tests" many, many times, but the end result always sucks. At the very best we have games like Fallout 3 that allow player to ignore the results and allocate skill points manually, so the whole process is just a waste of time.

Bannerlord is one the of the worst implementations of these systems I've seen because its progression system is a pretty poorly balanced minmax simulator. For example, having 4 or 6 in an attribute is virtually identical to having 3 or 5, so it's pretty easy to waste attribute points. Because of this I never feel like I'm selecting the best option from a variety of interesting background questions. I feel like I'm desperately trying to find the one option that sucks the least and wastes minimal amount of attribute and focus points.

So yeah, I believe Sandbox should definitely feature manual attribute and focus point allocation. Let me pick my character's age and then freely customize them however I want.

 

[NPC99]

I’m ok with the current system as it provides a relatively fast start, which is also good for beginners who don’t know what they want/need. I’ve not used it but this respec mod works with v1.1.2, so, should be ok for v1.1.3.

Respec V4

Allows respec main hero and\or companions at towns.

www.nexusmods.com

 

[feelotraveller]

For me it would be counter-productive to allocate all attribute points at the beginning of the game. I find the early leveling to be way too quick and the later leveling way too slow and having all the attribute points already allocated would only make this worse. (That said I've nothing against it being an option for those who want to play that way).

More generally I find the character building to be about making sure not to acquire any attribute/focus points in unwanted areas. The danger in the early game is in going for immediate 'power unlimited' and not planning for the currently useless but later wanted areas (engineering is an example, for me). I quite like the tight attribute allocation inasmuch as it sets limits to how I can build my characters and don't mind the backstories since they give some minor variation to starting skills (and weapons) for different factions. I generally get my characters a bit higher levels than others seem to, and I plan for at least level 40 and then flail about, pretty unsuccessfully, for useful stretch goals to 48. Last run I hit level 49 and spent the latter half of the game barely leveling and having next to no use for the points when I did do so. That's the greater problem to my mind.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I've seen developers try to implement these "background questionnaires" or "psychological tests" many, many times, but the end result always sucks. At the very best we have games like Fallout 3 that allow player to ignore the results and allocate skill points manually, so the whole process is just a waste of time.

Yeah, it always amounts to trying to guess what was in the developers head at the time. It almost always gives you stuff you don't want if you're a minmaxxer.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

For me it would be counter-productive to allocate all attribute points at the beginning of the game. I find the early leveling to be way too quick and the later leveling way too slow and having all the attribute points already allocated would only make this worse. (That said I've nothing against it being an option for those who want to play that way).

They mean the points you would get from the character background choices, not all the points from possible level ups. Nevermind they did mean that, yeah thta's weird. And in case you didn't know, your skill learning rates do not effect character exp earning so this will not effect you gaining levels at all.

 

[GeminiTiger]

What I want to know is why do family members get more attributes than the main character and why does everyone else get even less?
3 tiers of characters is just weird

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

What I want to know is why do family members get more attributes than the main character and why does everyone else get even less?
3 tiers of characters is just weird

I think originally the family members were set up like NPC lords with skills all over the place, then they changed them to also have spendable attributes and FP, so it's like they're double dipping and have a NPC lord's skills but all the free points to use too. That's how the brother is anyways, the other siblings should get the education choices (also wasteful like PC creation) and then free points to spend at 18. I don't how kids are doing lately (always finish map and they only 6 or 7) but they can be bugged in past versions and could sometimes start at a high level or with basically nothing.

 

[GeminiTiger]

I think originally the family members were set up like NPC lords with skills all over the place, then they changed them to also have spendable attributes and FP, so it's like they're double dipping and have a NPC lord's skills but all the free points to use too. That's how the brother is anyways, the other siblings should get the education choices (also wasteful like PC creation) and then free points to spend at 18. I don't how kids are doing lately (always finish map and they only 6 or 7) but they can be bugged in past versions and could sometimes start at a high level or with basically nothing.

Yes, not even the brothers and sister follow one set of rules and kids arrive somewhat randomly in levels and gear.

Generally though, the average attributes are 3 for the player at start, 2 for companions and 4 for kids, (I mean if they were level 1 and you just give them 1 more attribute per 4 levels it would look like that) kids level so fast it's crazy (much like the younger brother and sister)

 

[Totalgarbage]

They mean the points you would get from the character background choices, not all the points from possible level ups. And in case you didn't know, your skill learning rates do not effect character exp earning so this will not effect you gaining levels at all.

No no, I meant that we would get all attribute points from levelling (I arbitrarily chose level 32, so 8 attribute points) and age choice at the start of the game. The character creation choices' point allocation would stay (but could of course be improved). Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

No no, I meant that we would get all attribute points from levelling (I arbitrarily chose level 32, so 8 attribute points) and age choice at the start of the game. The character creation choices' point allocation would stay (but could of course be improved). Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

So just attributes? Honestly I'd rather just get rid of them altogether (or make everyone have 10 across the board). It would make building your character much less annoying and welcoming to new players if they weren't hard locked out of perks because the didn't min/max during character creation.

 

[JunKeteer]

I don't really mind the background>attribute connection. But right now, with how the perks are arrayed/sorted, not applicable sometimes, mixed with other roles, bugged, etc... - absolutely horrible gameplay-wise. It's also probably a min/max nightmare for those that enjoy that aspect too.
Not to mention the focus/hardcap, ill-balanced exp sources (or lack of), or the 'old' 3:1 ratio of skills to attributes from Warband still present, etc... - makes for a messy progression system.
It's 'complicated' but not actually necessarily complex, for such a simplistic game like this.

 

[feelotraveller]

And in case you didn't know, your skill learning rates do not effect character exp earning so this will not effect you gaining levels at all.

Yeah, I do 'know' but tend to forget. So scrub my comments in that regard. Attribute points make skill xp gain quicker but that's a double-edged sword since some skills level super quick and some super slow... I like that later in the game allocating attribute points can unblock skill gains (sometimes) but that's more about continuing to feel there is some progression. I definitely would like a smoother and extended (in game time) skill/level gain curve, or more precisely one that means something, but it's not like that's new in BL.