Search results for query: *

  1. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Piconi said:
    Will bring this up, thanks all!
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for reading this post and conversation—I’m honored.

    The common consensus appears to be that spears (and thrusting animations in general) are too slow. Currently, enemies can get close without taking damage, blocking every thrust.

    I also suggest that spears should deal some damage even if the enemy gets too close. Perhaps reducing the bounce-off mechanic slightly could allow for striking a foe as they approach for reduced damage. Alternatively, removing the bounce-off but reducing thrust damage as the foe gets closer might be an option, ensuring spears remain viable without making one-handed weapons obsolete.

    Adding more attack angles and sides could enhance combat diversity. Stabbing from the side or bashing/slashing from different angles would add tactical depth. While the idea of swinging with spears is appealing, its implementation might be uncertain.

    Improving AI proficiency with thrusting weapons is crucial, as currently, outcomes seem one-sided when a spear faces off against a sword, for example.

    I wouldn’t alter the push-back mechanic significantly to avoid potential overpowered situations.

    As it stands, thrusting weapons, especially spears and pikes, feel somewhat ineffective in combat and duels. In an arena scenario with just an arming sword against opponents with a bill and a spear, fear and caution should be equal for both.

    Thanks again for taking the time to engage in this thread. Please continue enhancing this great game, and I wish you and everyone involved a happy new year.
  2. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Totalgarbage said:
    I think the devs fixing or improving on the 1st and especially the 2nd concern would be great. If they did more (except for my 3rd point), it would be overkill imo. I'm saying this because I hate using spears in mods like RBM where they are too overpowered and armor stops mattering and you can kill all enemies in medium range extremely fast, nearly risk-free. In singleplayer only, I think that:

    - All stabs should deal damage regardless of how close the enemy is to your character (or whoever is attacking with the spear), but the damage should fall-off according to the handling and the distance from the "damage sweet spot".

    - All stabs should be a bit faster (I don't know what the specific increase should be though).

    - Couched polearms should have a higher default chance of staying couched after an attack, and the "skewer" perk in the polearms skill tree should also affect braceable polearms and greatly increase this amount to something like 75-80% likely to keep the polearm couched/braced after an attack.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, I believe that increasing the speed of thrusting damage is crucial for making spears (and pikes) more viable on the battlefield.

    However, speed alone might not be enough. I also think that spears suffer from a limited range of damage, especially when your foe gets too close. To address this, I propose reducing the bouncing-off mechanic. The damage of the thrust could decrease as the opponent gets closer, but the knockback should increase, pushing the enemy back to the optimal damage range and allowing for the retraction of the weapon. The thrust should be fast enough to enable an immediate follow-up attack, giving skilled players an advantage. Yet, if the opponent gets too close, the polearm should still bounce off, prompting a switch to a secondary weapon. Notably, a high-tier troop should be able to react to that counter-attack and successfully block in time.

    I also appreciate the idea of being able to swing with the spear, slash with the spearhead, or use the staff for a reduced damage. However, I’m unsure if this might make things too complicated.

    Thank you for responding to my post. Your ideas are good and very much appreciated, especialy your third point.
  3. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Oh man, I totally forgot about the effectiveness of one-handed weapons! Your ideas make sense, especially the part about swinging, considering how effective staffs were. I’m also pretty sure there was a tactic where a pike formation could be broken by great-swords, as their blades pushed the pikes to the sides, creating a gap. Fighters with shorter weapons would then jump in and engage the pikemen in close melee combat, forcing them to draw their secondary weapons.

    However, I still believe that spear thrusts should have some effectiveness when a foe gets too close, perhaps knocking them back with reduced damage? It could be within a range where one-handed weapons remain relevant (for instance to the half of the polearm) avoiding obsolescence. Maintaining the bounce-off mechanic, as you mentioned, would be a good balance.

    I really appreciate your ideas! They are well-thought-out and make a lot of sense.
  4. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Yoshioki Ouchi said:
    Happy to hear you like my reply; I'm kinda new around here since I really made an account to check the news since I got into this game this time last year on PS4 and, well, it was a mess but it seems mostly cleaned up with the latest update. A lot of fun despite the mess; put several hundred hours into one playthrough that ended in unification, after all.

    I should have said "especially with diminished range," because I could imagine a simple rotation of swiping left, right, thrusting, and retracting the spear when the enemy gets close being within the realm of the game's system to handle. There is precedent for adjusting weapon functionality (like, with javelins, going from throwing mode to melee mode) and that could be applied to spears as well.

    I could easily imagine most of the spears in the game being useful as slashing weapons since their blades are long and broad enough to be serviceable. Of course, it makes sense IRL to sweep if you miss a thrust (for example) and, in game, it'd make spearmen (NPCs) especially useful since they could pack together and create a cone of death in front of them just with repeat swipes without knocking into each other.

    Spears have improved in Bannerlord compared to Warband--it's why I use them all the time on horseback--but rarely on foot if I can help it since it's clunky, limited in attack angles (smarter A.I. means this weakness is emphasized), and requires a bit of "thrust towards the feet and than swipe up" in a weird way to consistently hit someone in front of you (or shield bash/kick, a player-only mechanic that'd probably help NPCs quite a bit).

    The simplest improvement might be to just raise the attack speeds across the board for spears so that you and NPCs can compensate with sheer repetition where you lack in effective alternative attack options
    Click to expand...
    Agreed, the simplest way to address this problem would be to increase the attack speed or handling of spears. In my opinion, another effective approach would be to remove the bouncing mechanic, or as you mentioned, implement the idea of pulling the spear back. The speed of thrusting was what made spearmen formidable warriors on the battlefield. It was the reason charging at them was risky – they could swiftly change their attack direction, making it difficult to approach.

    Historically, the spear wouldn’t bounce off harmlessly; it would either penetrate or push back its foe. Even against opponents with shields, a skilled spearmen, especially if holding the spear in two hands, could still be a formidable force. In formations, spears seem ineffective, and my testing indicates that troops with spears are easily overwhelmed by enemies wielding one-handed weapons. It’s confusing why spears, unlike two-handed axes and shock polearms, feel slow, get blocked easily, and deal less damage.

    I also appreciate your suggestion about giving spears more attack options. The idea of switching between attacks, similar to javelins, is intriguing. However, I wonder if this might become too complex, especially considering the various polearms in the game. Some spears already have the ability to brace, thrust, and throw (like pilum). Would you propose giving this ability to specific spears or spear heads, or perhaps a combination?

    I guess, that there is a mod adresing this issues, but just like you, I’m also playing on console.
  5. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Yoshioki Ouchi said:
    I think spears would be infinitely better if you could swing with them, even for diminished damage, since a big part of what holds them back is the limited attack directions, slowness, and ineffectuality at close range. A little swing (not a wide 180 degree arc, more like a 90 degree cone) would probably go a long way.

    Maybe left/right directional inputs could pulling back the spear so the offensive length is shorter, at least, since they're often too long to be competitive with most other weapons on foot.

    On horseback, they're pretty solid for their range and potential power when velocity is factored in, but it's on foot where they're still pretty tough to use semi-well compared to using a one-hander and shield or two-hander without a shield.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, I agree with you that spears are also limited in their attack directions. I really like your idea of pulling the spear back and shortening it to make it usable when foes get too close because, as it stands, the spear just bounces off.

    I also appreciate your concept of swinging with them since some spears (or at least some of their variations) were historically used for both thrusting and swinging attacks.

    Regarding swingable spearheads in the game, there are some, right? I’m particularly curious about the menavlioton, which, to be honest, really confuses me. In-game, it seems to be used more like a bill or glaive, but wasn’t it originally a long, heavy spear (or early pike)?

    I should also specify that I meant using the spear on foot because, on horseback, it’s honestly my go-to weapon.

    Thanks for the great reply, It’s my first post on here, so I’m glad, that someone had taken their time to read it and add on my concern.
  6. Jezecek02

    SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers

    Greetings Mount & Blade: Bannerlord community, I’d like to discuss concerns about spears in the game, touching upon issues such as slow attack speed, bouncing off when too close, the difficulty of facing multiple opponents, and the apparent imbalance compared to two-handed axes and swingable...
Back
Top Bottom