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von_lidl said:

Meelis13 said:

Hidde112 said:

seenam02 said:

Captain Lust How are you today 

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He's watching us 

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About bloody time we'd see some activity. And hey, would you look at that- we actually have some official-looking teaser of a teaser in twitter! Not in middle of 2600+ page topic, but twitter! Am i dreaming? Did TW actually decide to communicate with fans about Bannerlord? Of course it doesnt say bannerlord anywhere though..

I know i have been sort of mean and frustrated but i dont plan to apologise not one bit for my attitude. TW communication with fans has been literally non-existent regarding Bannerlord and they do deserve scorn for that. I mean sure, they dont owe us anything, but seriously, one or 2 new screenshots in steam over course of 5 months would've gone a looooooooooooong way to assure people game is well on the way. But no, even if there was some teeny-tiny bits of info you had to dig hard to even get to it as no official channel reported it (post in middle of 2,6k page forum topic is NOT official channel).

Dont get me wrong, i really like that FINALLY we get some news on official channel PRESUMABLY(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) for bannerlord, but this doesnt change the fact that communication with community has been completely non-existent, making very large part of community feeling negleted and frustrated.

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I don't see why you are being frustrated with TW's lack of communication? The only losing part is TW. Just imagine how much more money they could make with just a little bit of promotion. Just relax, you'll  have your game eventually.

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Hidde112 said:

seenam02 said:

Captain Lust How are you today 

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He's watching us 

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SgtButters said:

We all know they're still working on the game, the fact there is no news doesn't mean development has halted they have made that clear to us. We have been told we would get news relatively "soon", how soon "soon" is we have no clue. I think Frank is bound by contract and so even if he wanted to answer something he still has to run it through Armağan first.

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Alene said:

Meelis13 said:

Thank you! Percisely my point! This topic was made in 2012, at least MONTHS after Bannerlord was revealed.

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Close enough. This topic was made 1 day after Bannerlord teaser was released.

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Rungsted93 said:

Of course we're all going to buy Bannerlord... But that's still not a valid reason to treat your customers poorly! Of course we're impatient and frustrated due to the lack of no information... We've been waiting what 5-6 years since the leaked alpha video? And still at this point game doesn't actually seem that much closer to release.

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kalarhan said:

Meelis13 said:

like few others already pointed out, its us who ultimately pay TW salary

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lol

*insert a meme about how kids are too entitled in this generation*
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/entitled-kids/

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Cpt. Nemo said:

So people would still moan, complain, and rag on Lust and Taleworlds even if they reminded everyone on a weekly basis that yes, they haven't abandoned the game a la Kagos. Why should they bother doing that then?

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kraggrim said:

BNS Marko said:

I'll take a look into that next week, feel like getting it all on one place would provide a good overview.

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Be sure to confirm through the primary sources when you're able (might be worth finding a reliable Turkish translator to work with). Don't want to end up propagating potential mistakes others have made when writing up summaries of stuff.



@Meelis, if you want confirmation that it's still being worked on just keep an eye on the SteamDB page, will show when they update it. Which is fairly frequently afaik.

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Cpt. Nemo said:

Meelis13 said:

RoboSenshi said:

Ok, Lust is taking waaaay too much heat now. He's only allowed to show and say things he's been authorized to. Which means he answers to some shadowy palpatine-esque superior. That guy is who you should be angry at.

Or I'm wrong and this is all Lust's idea (which I highly doubt). I don't know but I get the feeling Lust is desperate to say a lot of things but just can't.

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he definetly can say "hey, we are still working on it" every few weeks or so. But we dont even have that.

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So would that sentence every week or so alleviate all the problems with information you and other people have? Are you honestly worried that Taleworlds are just sitting on their asses for months, doing nothing to develop the game?

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RoboSenshi said:

Ok, Lust is taking waaaay too much heat now. He's only allowed to show and say things he's been authorized to. Which means he answers to some shadowy palpatine-esque superior. That guy is who you should be angry at.

Or I'm wrong and this is all Lust's idea (which I highly doubt). I don't know but I get the feeling Lust is desperate to say a lot of things but just can't.

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Plovercrest said:

Armaury said:

5. Bannerlord will sell itself, so who cares about communication with customers.

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All is said

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Sadly that's what defenders of the lack of communication seem to think. There are very few things that sell them-self.

But, I think they will obviously advertise more closer to release. I hope they stay in touch with the community after release too. When developers/publishers drop of the ace of the earth after release.... that can cause issues.

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EyeballLancer said:

joei160. said:

"1. Lust hates steam, because people have said nasty things about him on steam."

What nasty things?

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Oh, well, there was a couple of threads calling for his immediate dismissal. Claiming that only producing one steam update in 5 months or so was a terrible offense. I think the word 'ginger' was used. You know... the typical character assassination that goes on when there's nothing better to do. 

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Orion said:

Are you serious right now? You're the one saying niche is a popularity issue. Here's you (attempting, poorly) to prove that Warband is more popular than Guild 2:

Meelis13 said:

Also, lets look at people still playing previous iteration- warband is still highly popular with average usercount still around 5 000, whereas old guild 2 even at its peak was not very popular. The guild 2- pirates of the european seas (most reviewed guild entry) has currently 1 300 reviews on steam, original m&b (least-reviewed m&b) has 2300 reviews on steam. warband has 50 000

So difference in popularity is quite clear

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And here's you saying that because Guild 2 isn't as popular, it is therefore niche:

Meelis13 said:

Actually it does make it niche because way too few people play it to make it NOT niche.

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And then here's me, saying that niche does not mean less popular:

Orion said:

A niche title can still be high profile, given enough advertising. The simulator market is a great example. Kerbal Space Program, for instance, is a space program & space flight/exploration simulator. That's a niche market, but KSP is a high profile game because it's a huge indie developer success story. Star Citizen is another simulator that is high profile yet caters to a specific audience, gaining lots of media attention through clever marketing and record-breaking fundraising. Ever heard of DCS? If you think a title being niche is dependent on how many players it has, tell me how many people you know would be willing to spend 8 minutes clicking switches in a plane just to turn it on every time they wanted to fly it, then cruise around for an hour without shooting anything. That doesn't stop DCS from being the biggest name in flight simulators.

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So I've determined that this was a lie:
[quote author=Meelis]Your whole argument is based on false assumption that niche means less popular. As you repeadetly stated, niche isnt popularity issue but classification, yet you yourself seem to ignore your own statement.

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Orion said:

Meelis13 said:

But here is one thing you dont consider (and quite frankly one point i never bought up)- steam listed or not, high profile game is just that, steam or no steam. I have always been history geek, thus im usually more drawn to games taking place in history. I havent played many (nor am i even trying to pretend i have played them all), but i have heard about majority of high-profile games even when those games were new. And fact i didnt see guild even mentioned in any of history-heavy gaming forums i was in, well that added to media outlets not simply mentioning it as much, those point to fact its simply not high-profile game. There is nothing wrong with that- many games i do enjoy arent high-profile.

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This is still anecdotal, and how I learned of the Guild runs contrary to your personal experience. I found out about the series on this forum, which as we know is dedicated to a historical RPG/strategy-hybrid game. My point here isn't that you're wrong - your personal experiences can't be right or wrong, they just are - but that it doesn't really prove anything, just like mine don't prove anything.

And still, guild is very much niche title. Sorry, but you try to group it to where it doesnt belong. From what i can see, its very much sort of mix between RPG with bit of city building in it, while not really. It doesnt fit tropico or anno model, nor does it fit RPG model, its just in between, which very much DOES make it niche title

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Just because a game does something new or blends two things into something else doesn't make it niche. You're the one that said Bannerlord is a high profile game. If games are niche because they're a mix of multiple genres, then that's contradictory. All Mount & Blade titles so far have been a mix of First/Third-Person Shooter, RPG, and strategy genres, and we have solid evidence from the blogs & videos that Bannerlord will be the same.

For what it's worth, your description of the Guild as an "RPG with bit of city building" is quite accurate. It has several RPG elements, and while you don't really build cities you do develop (or prey on) infrastructure that fuels their growth, and engage in politics in an attempt to get your characters elected into offices where they can further your goals. There's even a level of international politics that you can participate in; causing, preventing, and engaging in off-map wars with other nations and dealing with the consequences. It's more of an RPG than anything else, though.

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Orion said:

I didn't move the goalposts, I was upfront that high profile is a nebulous term. I even used those exact words. What's really in question here isn't what you or I consider to be niche titles, but what we mean by high profile. A niche title can still be high profile, given enough advertising. The simulator market is a great example. Kerbal Space Program, for instance, is a space program & space flight/exploration simulator. That's a niche market, but KSP is a high profile game because it's a huge indie developer success story. Star Citizen is another simulator that is high profile yet caters to a specific audience, gaining lots of media attention through clever marketing and record-breaking fundraising. Ever heard of DCS? If you think a title being niche is dependent on how many players it has, tell me how many people you know would be willing to spend 8 minutes clicking switches in a plane just to turn it on every time they wanted to fly it, then cruise around for an hour without shooting anything. That doesn't stop DCS from being the biggest name in flight simulators.

I also said, and you obviously ignored, that Guild 2 wasn't released exclusively or even first on Steam. In fact, it didn't come to Steam until Guild 2 Renaissance, an expansion nearly 4 years after Guild 2 was first released. You can't write reviews on Steam for a game you didn't buy through Steam, so your metric for determining popularity is inherently flawed in any case barring the comparison of Steam exclusives. This is irrefutable and easily verified. Before you get your hopes up, the store pages for Guild 2 and Guild 2 - Pirates of the European Seas list their initial retail dates (2006 and 2007), but searching for "The Guild 2" in the Steam store will show you the dates they were made available on Steam which was 24th June 2010. Guild 2 Renaissance was released on 28th July 2010.

But that is all irrelevant anyway because that is the goalpost move I was talking about. Popularity does NOT determine a game's niche status, specialization does. This is a definition of niche from the Oxford English Dictionary: "A specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service." The examples I gave pertaining to simulators are all niche, as they are all highly specialized, yet you can easily determine for yourself that they are high profile (if they weren't, you couldn't do it easily). The most you can say about the specialization of Guild 2 is that it doesn't have a combat focus. You yourself have admitted this isn't unique among RTS games when you brought up Anno, and if we include titles like Sim City and Tropico then we clearly see that there is broad appeal for games which share that distinction and many alternatives are available. It's not specialized, therefore it's not niche.

Are we done getting sidelined by this niche nonsense now?

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Orion said:

It's a different genre, but that doesn't make it niche. Among medieval RTS titles, The Guild is probably the most well-known franchise for games without a military focus (possibly the only one?). Including games with a military focus, the other franchises that come to mind are Total War and Stronghold. Is it as big as Total War? Nah, that's the most AAA strategy franchise on the planet. It could be bigger than Stronghold, though, considering the flop that was Stronghold 3 and no forthcoming title from them. I agree that being "high profile" now basically means you have the market presence to make your game visible to everyone. Steam has turned traditional marketing on its head in that regard.

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Do not look here said:

Orion said:

Whaaat? Your definition of niche is the most amazing thing I've read in a while. It has to be a non-fantasy medieval title featuring military conquest or be stylistically similar to Assassin's Creed? Boy have I got news for you, 99% of the top sellers on Steam don't fit that description. Resident Evil 7, H1Z1 King of the Hill, Astroneer, Galactic Civilizations III, Civilization VI, Stardew Valley, Counter-Strike Global Offensive, Grand Theft Auto V, Rocket League, Dead by Daylight, Enter the Gungeon, need I go on? According to your definition, these are all niche titles because none of them are stylistically similar to Assassin's Creed and none of them are non-fantasy medieval titles of any kind.

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I believe what Meelis13 meant was that non-fantasy medieval games that aren't AC or let you lead massive armies are aimed at niche market. In that I have to agree, 'Medieval' tends to evoke words like knights, swords, battles, chivalry, not buying and selling pork. Guild titles were always about micromanaging stuff that happens automatically for players in major titles.

That being said, I honestly don't think Bannerlord is any less niche. The market for multiplayer aspect of game slowly grows, but the focus of M&B series, being single player game with player forced to play by bots' rules and have to fight hard to become hero of the realm, is hardly appealing for bigger crowd. Or maybe I should rather say it is hard to market to bigger crowd, cause, frankly, being niche or high profile nowadays just means whether you have the cash to reach out and sell the game to millions of people.

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Orion said:

You never heard of it, therefore it's low profile. You never heard of it, therefore it's niche. Where's your proof that it's mentioned less in media? Have a source? Did you compile a comprehensive index of the appearances of Bannerlord and The Guild 3 across major video game media outlets? All you have right now is hear-say, and the burden of proof is on you. Show me.

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