Search results for query: *

Colleptic said:

I fight with longsword in RL...and I keep trying to move to block in a guard like I would in RL

Click to expand...

How long you been studying? I'm in ARMA St. Louis, and have been studying longsword for about 15 years now.

Incidentally, there's almost nothing about the fighting system in this game that's anything like how I would fight IRL. For one, I'm not finding it practical (if even possible) to counter/defend an attack by attacking myself, as I would with a Zornhau or Zwerchau. Indes is pretty much not a thing, and the guards simply don't work the way they should.

However I had some ideas on how it could be made to happen in the second half of the post here, if you're interested. The follow-up post offers another refinement.

TheShadeMan said:

I am doing the best thing a true player would do.

Click to expand...

There's no such thing. So go and stuff your "My Way Is The Only Way" attitude up your @#$.

Just because someone plays a game that you don't, or plays the same game a different way, doesn't make one any more of a "true" player. Case in point, the MMO air-combat simulator Aces High: Some players like to fly fighters. Some like bombers. Some like ground vehicles. Some players do all three. Some players like to focus on one aircraft. Some players fly many different aircraft. Some players fly solo. Some players fly with a wingman or squadron. Some like Energy Fighting. Some like close-quarters turning fights. Some players only fly in the Dueling arena. Some players only fly in the Main Arena. Some players only log in for scenarios and special events. Many many many many many many MANY different play styles, and every single one of them is as equally valid as another.

I absolutely agree with this, however we'd REALLY need a padlock feature to "lock" onto a target to really facilitate unlinking block/attack direction from your movement and camera controls.

I'd also come up with a far more radical combat system that could do much the same thing while making the whole system much more robust. See here.

Ambaryerno said:

Ok, this is going to be a radical suggestion:

There's NO "Block" button. The "Block" button instead becomes a "Guard" button. When your weapon is drawn, pressing the "Guard" button puts your character into a Guard stance. The character remains in Guard until you press the button again. Maybe being in Guard stance affects your movement in some way. Like, your movement speed is reduced when in Guard. While in guard, moving your mouse changes your guard position. Something like:

1. Upper Left: Left Ochs
2. Up: Center Vom Tag
3. Upper Right: Right Ochs
4. Right: Right Vom Tag
5. Lower Right: Right Pflug
6. Down: Alber
7. Lower Left: Left Pflug
8. Left: Left Vom Tag

When in Guard, your block is always on until you disable Guard again.

Now, when you chamber an attack, attacks move to a specific guard position. For example, chambering a high thrust from the left or right automatically moves you into the appropriate Ochs.

Then when you attack, your your attack follows through to a specific guard position. For example:

1. Diagonal Falling cuts end in Left or Right Pflug.
2. Horizontal and Diagonal Rising cuts end in Left or Right Ochs
3. High thrusts end in the opposite Ochs
4. Low thrusts end in the opposite Pflug

So when you attack, your attack automatically moves you from guard to guard, allowing you to use attack to cover and defend rather than simply changing your guard.

Click to expand...

As an alternate to the bolded above, no chambering. Everything is defined by your guard position, and clicking the Cut or Thrust button executes the appropriate attack. So if you're in Right Ochs, tapping the "Thrust" button automatically thrusts from above right. Tapping the "Cut" button executes a traversing cut.

Another thing I'd like to see is a bit more flexibility in the attack directions. Like currently you can only thrust straight from below. What about thrusting from above? Maybe make LMB a swing, and MMB a thrust. Then you can cut from below, or thrust from above, the left, or right. For cutting, I think you could also add four additional cuts using the diagonals. Just make my reticle an 8-point one instead of 4. You probably wouldn't need to worry overly much about additional block directions.

Also, I'd like to see the chambering of attacks improved to use ACTUAL guard positions to better facilitate chambering as a means of blocking, as it was in Warband. ESPECIALLY when using 2H weapons. Right now, it feels like chambering the attack leaves you much too open IE:

Chambering a cut from the left or right would put you in Vom Tag on that side. Chambering a high thrust puts you in Ochs, while a low thrust would use Pflug. Etc. Etc.

And speaking of blocking, I'd like to see better implementation of being able to block by cutting, in much the same way the Master Strikes were used in real longsword fencing (IE, a diagonal overhand cut becomes a Zornhau when you use it to counter an opposing cut). I don't think I've ever seen the weapons interact in this manner in the game. This could be done by having the character cut TO a guard, rather than simply cutting through and returning to a neutral state as the game currently does.

Ooooh.... That gives me an idea.

Ok, this is going to be a radical suggestion:

There's NO "Block" button. The "Block" button instead becomes a "Guard" button. When your weapon is drawn, pressing the "Guard" button puts your character into a Guard stance. The character remains in Guard until you press the button again. Maybe being in Guard stance affects your movement in some way. Like, your movement speed is reduced when in Guard. While in guard, moving your mouse changes your guard position. Something like:

1. Upper Left: Left Ochs
2. Up: Center Vom Tag
3. Upper Right: Right Ochs
4. Right: Right Vom Tag
5. Lower Right: Right Pflug
6. Down: Alber
7. Lower Left: Left Pflug
8. Left: Left Vom Tag

When in Guard, your block is always on until you disable Guard again.

Now, when you chamber an attack, attacks move to a specific guard position. For example, chambering a high thrust from the left or right automatically moves you into the appropriate Ochs.

Then when you attack, your your attack follows through to a specific guard position. For example:

1. Diagonal Falling cuts end in Left or Right Pflug.
2. Horizontal and Diagonal Rising cuts end in Left or Right Ochs
3. High thrusts end in the opposite Ochs
4. Low thrusts end in the opposite Pflug

So when you attack, your attack automatically moves you from guard to guard, allowing you to use attack to cover and defend rather than simply changing your guard.

Godwinx said:

I know while I'm holding down RMB if I look around the shield moves with my mouse movement.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is absolutely wrong.

Once you pick a block direction, moving the mouse does NOT change your actual block direction unless you release the RMB first, THEN move the mouse, and block again. Your shield or weapon moves with the camera rotation ONLY because it changes your character's facing. However if you Block Left, then move the camera to the right, you're STILL in "block left" position.

It simply doesn't matter with shields, since regardless of block direction you'll still more likely than not block a frontal attack simply by having the shield. However it's VERY obvious with 2H weapons that your block direction doesn't change.

Virake said:

if there was a lock-on feature that would allow you to move the mouse to block without moving the camera (like in For Honor, KCD, The Surge 2), then forcing everyone to select block direction manually would make at least some sense. but nope…
if they want to nerf blocking, here's an option: make attacks faster, and make poorly-timed blocks mitigate only a portion of the damage (like in Sekiro). the industry has already figured these things out, but not TaleWorlds, apparently. what a shame. melee combat was never the strong suit of M&B games, and the lack of auto-direction for blocking just makes it more frustrating.

Click to expand...

I've suggested this, too. Padlocking a target has a been a standard feature in third-person games with melee combat since Ocarina of Time introduced Z-Targeting over twenty years ago. There's a reason games are STILL implementing it with few changes to this day: IT WORKS.

Also, I've suggested a "melee reticle" that's always on-screen when your weapon is drawn, with directional arrows that light up in a different color when your attack or block is going that direction. It would be MUCH easier to keep track of this than the arrows that flash on screen at the edges of your view, and I find are VERY difficult to pick up at times since doing so may require taking your eyes away from your target. Something like this:



This puts the directional indicators right in the center of your view (similar to KCD's reticle).

bantad87 said:

Melee reticle is a good idea regardless of the other suggestions. Sometimes in the thick of a fight I just don't notice the current system.

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is more of a comprehensive list of ideas, and if anyone has any more feel free to post them.

And that's exactly why I floated it the reticle idea. The arrows we currently have to indicate attack/block direction are VERY easy to lose track of. I think a system like this would be much easier to see.

I frankly don't have a dog in the fight on manual vs. auto directional blocking. My big problem is the implementation. Especially the fact that its pretty much the same system as the original Warband and hasn't been noticeably improved.

It's not about "simple yet complex." ESPECIALLY against the AI who doesn't face the same restrictions as the player.

Crap, I forgot all about the 1st. Ugh, I'm just gonna go sleep for 24 hours until all that nonsense is over.

I still think the biggest flaw is tying attack/block direction to your movement or camera controls. Which means if you're trying to move/rotate/etc. in one direction because that's where your opponent is going, it's INCREDIBLY awkward if you then have to try to attack or block in the opposite. You're already set up for failure because now you have to stop your current movement and change your direction again.

And what the frell just happened to my name and avatar? I'm showing up as "Lady Tuan" rather than myself.

Harathan said:

Give it up already you massive troll. You have no legit arguments against autoblock, you just want to dictate how other people play a video game.

Click to expand...

Click his name and select Ignore. That'll solve the problem.

WMS said:

I understand the appeal of manual blocking, and I enjoy playing that way in multiplayer and occasionally in single player.

However I don’t understand the arguments for not including auto-block as an option in SP. While manual blocking can be fun, I find it restricts my play style more than I would like in single player. In single player, rather than having to strictly optimize my build simply for survival (which manual blocking has me doing), I want the freedom of being able to load out my character in a variety of ways for role playing purposes and not just die right away if I choose to wield a 2 handed sword. Giving me the option doesn’t restrict me in any way, whereas not giving me the option puts a skill wall up that I have to master before being able to enjoy a particular play style.
I get that some of you enjoy that challenge, and it is rewarding to feel like you’ve actually mastered something, but that love of the struggle is clearly not universal, and it seems like for many, the convenience of an auto-block option would offer easier access to a more rewarding play style.

Click to expand...

There's really only one question the people who are objecting to adding the function need to ask themselves:

"Does implementing this as an option in Single Player that I don't have to turn on if I don't want to affect my ability to play the game in any way?"

If the answer is yes, then tyou REALLY need to reevaluate yourself, and ask why something just EXISTING that you don't have to use bothers you so much.

If the answer is no, then sit down, STFU, PLAY YOUR OWN GAME, and let anyone who DOES want to use that function play theirs. No one is going to make you turn it on if you don't want it.

It's really that simple.

glanton said:

I am surprised that in today's gaming climate Taleworlds chose not to include auto block. Most games have handicaps like that for players now. It's honestly pretty ballsy of Tale Worlds not to include it. I respect that. I wouldn't be upset if they added it but I applaud their leaving it out.

Click to expand...

I frankly don't even consider it a handicap. It's called offering an allowance for the limitations of the medium and interface.

Consider it this way:

I've studied WMA for about 15 years now. IRL, it's TRIVIAL for me to coordinate how my body is moving with the position of my sword. I can step and turn in one direction, but cover myself from an attack from the opposite without hardly thinking about it (TBH, I wouldn't "block" the way the game does in the first place. If I had an attack coming at my right shoulder, in most cases I'd be countering with with one of the Meisterhau, but that's beside the point).

I find the biggest limitation for doing so in the game, as I've already noted elsewhere, is that the game ties attack direction either into your mouse look, or into your movement controls. As a result, it makes moving in one direction but positioning your weapon to block or attack in the opposite MUCH more complicated than it needs to be because you're having to move in one direction but at the same time, but use the SAME set of controls to set up your block or attack from the opposite. M&KB is literally not designed to do that smoothly or efficiently.

This is where these "allowances" I mention come into play; by accommodating for things that you can do naturally in IRL, but don't translate to M&KB control (similar to how many flight simulators use "icons" to identify aircraft to account for the fact that even high resolution displays simply can't match even normal human visual acuity, much less the visual acuity of a pilot).

My fight isn't over whether autoblock is implemented or not. *MY* position is that the combat system needs an overhaul altogether.

First, implement a padlock feature, which is almost a standard function in 3D games. "Lock On" to a target, and your camera rotation and toon's movements are locked to that target. Think of it like the Z-Targeting system on the 3D Legend of Zelda games. This is an ALLOWANCE for the fact that in real life, it's relatively effortless to coordinate your movements to keep your opponent in front of you, whereas M&KB requires combining multiple control interfaces for the same task. Doable? Certainly on its own and in FPS where all you really have to worry about is pointing and shooting. But throw in the fact your attack/block direction is tied into those same controls and now you've got the equivalent of patting your head, rubbing your belly, AND trying to fold laundry all at the same time. This isn't just a matter of skill, but also one of coordination. Some people simply don't have the physical coordination to pull it off, and it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad at the game.

Such a system would also self-balancing: If you're locked to one target, you're opening yourself up for an attack from the flanks or behind in a multi-unit fight (y'know, just like target fixating would do in REAL LIFE).

With this in place, it would then be possible to separate block/attack direction from your movement or camera when you're locked. Lock on to target, your camera stays fixed on the target and your toon will do the circle-strafing with the WASD, and now you've got your mouse freed up completely for controlling your attacks and blocks (the problem is finding a solution that applies when you're NOT locked).

And again, allowing you to change your attack and block direction without having to release the button would better match the AI's ability to do this, and eliminate an artificial advantage that has existed since the original game.

That's three pretty simple "allowances" that may facilitate more people using directional blocking by eliminating one of its biggest technical hurdles (coordination).

Brynjahr said:

And you still can’t block?

Click to expand...

Some people don't have the luxury of sitting around Mommy and Daddy's basement with nothing but time on their hands. And many of us moved on to other things.

Brynjahr said:

Keep the insults coming when you can’t even disclose your age

Click to expand...

39, Junior. I've been playing this game since the Nords were the best infantry AND the second-best archers all in one unit.

eggymceggface said:

This. It hurts nobody to add it. All it seems is that some people really want to gatekeep mount and blade.

Click to expand...

This is pretty much it exactly. I see this same attitude replayed on pretty much every game community at some point. If a player asks for a quality of life feature that a certain "hardcore" element finds beneath them, they go on full attack mode to keep those "filthy casuals" out of the game.

Brynjahr said:

You’re literally crying kver a game begging for your money back because you can’t block
I’m 22 and self sufficient lmao
Also if you didn’t realise I don’t have to work anymore because of corona virus as I actually have a job therefore don’t need to sleep

Click to expand...

22 going on 12.

Brynjahr said:

Play easy mode then or use shield

Click to expand...

There is absolutely NO reason why that should be the only answer, anymore than your pithy "LOL GET GUD N00B" patronizing to the OP.

The combat system in this game from what I've seen so far has scarcely changed from the original game. Right down to all the same flaws. Lack of a camera lock (which has been a staple of third person games for TWENTY YEARS). Inability to change chamber/block direction without releasing first (while the AI can change both on a whim even under the lowest difficulty levels). Camera and movement tied to the same controls as attack and block direction. ALL of this dates back to the Beta versions of the original game. It's a very disappointing lack of improvement on one of the game's core mechanics.