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Quests are boring
- Thread starter Goyyyio
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LyonExodus
Veteran
asking for a friend... of course
Antaeus
Squire
Quests probably shouldn't be named 'quests'. They should be called 'governance'
Because mostly they're little administration tasks. Helping businesses out with markets or sourcing grain or clearing bandits. That's business as usual (BAU) local governance stuff that should be getting reported on by the local community council at the monthly meeting.
A quest should be something not BAU. Like when I go across the city to find that last pair of tie-died Nike socks that are no longer available anywhere. Or the 3 hour online mission I went on to find that Carhartt shirt I've wanted.. only to find it in a small town skate shop in rural Finland that's going to charge me $40 to post it to me. or the medieval equivalent. I don't know. Earning a special sword for helping a specific lord locate a missing relative held in an Asari prison. Conan the Barbarian type stuff with journeys and meeting weird people and action and abseiling into snake pits.
Crom...
Because mostly they're little administration tasks. Helping businesses out with markets or sourcing grain or clearing bandits. That's business as usual (BAU) local governance stuff that should be getting reported on by the local community council at the monthly meeting.
A quest should be something not BAU. Like when I go across the city to find that last pair of tie-died Nike socks that are no longer available anywhere. Or the 3 hour online mission I went on to find that Carhartt shirt I've wanted.. only to find it in a small town skate shop in rural Finland that's going to charge me $40 to post it to me. or the medieval equivalent. I don't know. Earning a special sword for helping a specific lord locate a missing relative held in an Asari prison. Conan the Barbarian type stuff with journeys and meeting weird people and action and abseiling into snake pits.
Crom...
LuciusDomitiusAurelianus
Sergeant
tl;dr = get over it your filthy casual
Some of them are okay - defending the village, prodigal son, the informant/spy quest with the gladiators, missing daughter, and the caravan ambush are all quick and easy loot/xp/cash.
The others? Not so much. Some of the Kingdom-specific ones during war time are bearable like scouting and what not but I don't feel like the quests do anything. One Lord lost his daughter like 7 times in one playthrough. She was a whole thot, it would be cool to have an option to kill her ass but no immersion option, so off to spread her digital legs she goes.
That said, outside of the main storyline what else do you want? The claimaint lines are cool for the first time but always turn into "go kill those d-bags over there for me plz", it's not like this is Elder Scrolls or Dungeons & Dragons Online where there is some long drawn out lore-driven plot that is touched on over dozens-100s of quests.
And lets not act like any other RPG has cool generic quests either. The "go find my sword in random cave" gets really old really quick.
Some of them are okay - defending the village, prodigal son, the informant/spy quest with the gladiators, missing daughter, and the caravan ambush are all quick and easy loot/xp/cash.
The others? Not so much. Some of the Kingdom-specific ones during war time are bearable like scouting and what not but I don't feel like the quests do anything. One Lord lost his daughter like 7 times in one playthrough. She was a whole thot, it would be cool to have an option to kill her ass but no immersion option, so off to spread her digital legs she goes.
That said, outside of the main storyline what else do you want? The claimaint lines are cool for the first time but always turn into "go kill those d-bags over there for me plz", it's not like this is Elder Scrolls or Dungeons & Dragons Online where there is some long drawn out lore-driven plot that is touched on over dozens-100s of quests.
And lets not act like any other RPG has cool generic quests either. The "go find my sword in random cave" gets really old really quick.
Goyyyio
Sergeant
We don't need long storylines to have cool quests. In fact the lost daughter one is supposed to be that, and it's a horrible and repetitive quest. We need quests to be more in context, quests that change according to factions, quests unique to factions, quests unique to certain lords. Quests that help you move in the world and quests that give you a monetary reward, quests that help your character progress in a certain ability. Every quest will get repetitive over time, the thing is that they're useful and make sense.
Take for example delivering a letter in Warband. As repetitive and boring that quest was, it made sense to help you build relationships with 2 lords, it means that when you just start the game you're nothing but an errand boy, it pushes you to progress in the world.
Take for example helping the guild masters in Warband, it made sense to help a town in the faction you want to join, it made sense to help caravan masters free the roads of looters and gangs, and it gave you renown as someone who helps the faction move forward.
Take for example helping villages in Warband. When you helped those villages, depending on the Lord, when you talk to them after helping, they thank you for your service, or reprimand you for leaving them in shame.
And finally, one of my favorite quests, take for example talking to a Lord's wife/sibling/father when they're captured, and be offered money in order to free them. That quest was great, and helped you build an incredible amount of relations between a country, while also giving the excitement of doing something risky. In Bannerlord that quest is ruined because friendships barely matter in this game (everything is managed through the stupid influence currency, having a friend in a country doesn't matter at all when making decisions or when you have to be elected to have a fief), and because infiltrating a castle/town is horrible and unfun.
Even if most of the quests in Warband weren't good or perfect, It were those little details that makes the game make sense, and be immersive, again, we don't need elaborated main quests, which Taleworlds will write very poorly as you can see (the main quest is an aberration), we need world-sensical quests that pushes the player inside the world, quests that create a sense of belonging, quests that push players into trying new things.
Brano
Sergeant at Arms
Amen
Well said. Just a little bit of creativity could have managed so much more. Its like they just didnt even care on that Bullet point at the Zoom meetings -
Next Up: "Quests...? Eh just have em herd some sheep again or whatever...".
It shows TW.
Death2Tyrants
Veteran
I've said it before. Quests are crappy because they don't actually impact the world. I've supplied grain to the same village several times in a row. Tools, cows whatever. They don't get raided. Life should be fantastic. Does it affect the number of bandits?
Nope. Does it change the quests? Nope. Does it do anything except improve relations? Nope.
And they're boring as hell.
Nope. Does it change the quests? Nope. Does it do anything except improve relations? Nope.
And they're boring as hell.
This isn't true. Naturally, you may mean "they don't impact the world enough", but I can only go with what you actually write.
Issues have preconditions, issue effects and resolution (success/failure/cancel) consequences. They are resolved over time, by AI lords or through the player taking quests. Preconditions typically look at if suitable characters are in the location and if the world and more specifically the location are in a suitable state for an issue to occur. If the preconditions are met, there is a chance for an issue to occur. Issue effects are continuous, negative effects that apply for as long as the issue is active and affect the location and/or character that has the issue. Resolution consequences can affect the player (if they are involved through a quest) as well as the location and/or character that has the issue. They are applied when the issue is resolved - but keep in mind that the resolution also cancels the issue effects.
Let's take the "need grain seed" issue quest, which you seem to refer to, as an example. From what I can tell...
Preconditions:
- There is a Headman Notable (so it won't occur in a town)
- The settlement produces grain.
- The nearby town market has less than 50 grain.
- The Grain price in the IssueGiverSettlement > average price of requested item in the world * 1.3.
Issue Effects:
- -0,2 / day to bound center prosperity.
- -0.5 / day to bound center loyalty
Issue Resolution:
Let's just look at a quest success and ignore the different player facing effects for companion vs. player quest solutions.
- Issue is resolved (aka issue effects are no longer applied)
- +10 Quest giver power
- +2 relation with questgiver
- +1 relation with all other notables of the village
- +50 Town prosperity
Interesting! I also thought they had 0 impact, but given the complex economic system developed it would make sense that there would be these preconditions and after effects.
But then do they have enough impact for the quest to be worth doing? Will your village fall in disrepair if you fail to deliver? And will it flourish or do noticably better if you succeed in the quest?
Does TW have stats from the game that show how many players are doing certain quests? And how many of those quests are completed by the player more then once in a single playthrough? I.E. are they popular?
I don't get too deep into the balancing nitty gritty of the issue quests, but from my understanding at least part of the challenge is that issues can occur everywhere and players will not (even if they could) deal with all of them. So at the very least the issue effects need to be somewhat tame as otherwise you have failing settlements/characters all over calradia and it also becomes kind of hard to ignore them once you do own a settlement even if you don't want to engage with that part of the game. (At least if we want to sustain the current availability of issue quests across settlements.)
I find myself doing quests quite often because of these effects. If you leave quests unattended (or hideouts) they can easily lead to a newly taken foreign fief to rebel quite fast.
Also if you play on bannerlord difficulty you have to do a bunch of quests to get your relations high enough to unlock recruiting slots.
@Duh_TaleWorlds
Is there any hint for the player to notice these changes after quests completed or for preconditions? Because a lot of people including me think the quests appearing in the world do not have preconditions or quests completion have no impact on the world. I am talking about a hint like how Rtr worked in Warband. As a player in Warband, we do not have any idea how right to rule worked in the game equations but we were able to see if the player rtr is in good state or not through Lords reactions to our kingdom. I think this is why Bannerlord feels a pure simulation without a soul. Because we are not getting any hint why things happens in the way they did happen nor how our impact in the world change the situation in the world. Or we did not see these hints?
Is there any hint for the player to notice these changes after quests completed or for preconditions? Because a lot of people including me think the quests appearing in the world do not have preconditions or quests completion have no impact on the world. I am talking about a hint like how Rtr worked in Warband. As a player in Warband, we do not have any idea how right to rule worked in the game equations but we were able to see if the player rtr is in good state or not through Lords reactions to our kingdom. I think this is why Bannerlord feels a pure simulation without a soul. Because we are not getting any hint why things happens in the way they did happen nor how our impact in the world change the situation in the world. Or we did not see these hints?
Death2Tyrants
Veteran
Well, I'd argue that they mean the same thing from a player's perspective since we don't have the benefit of being able to see under the hood.
I'd also argue that players would prefer to see a reduction in crime vs an increase in prosperity. What does that even do besides ending in starvation? I assume it increases taxes? If it did, it's woefully insufficient to feed your armies. Far, far simpler to go around fighting. Ransom and selling junk is by far the best means of making money besides smithing. It trumps anything else by orders of magnitude. But that's another point. Even better if an increase in prosperity actually led to a reduction in crime.
Hmm it might seem that your precondition is actually causing the loop? So, if I buy the grain from the nearest town, thereby causing it to drop below 50, and I give it to the headman, it will trigger the quest again?
Is that why I'm getting the quest repeatedly? There should at least be some kind of timer before it can trigger again. Even better if resolving the quest actually leads to resolving the issue. Like increase in productivity so that the next time the farmers go to market, they'll be selling more grain which would make it less likely that the nearby town has less than 50 grain.
I mean, you have another quest called art of the deal or something. Tie them in together. Why is the town having less than 50 grain? Because armies are buying it or because of consumption? You don't have to factor that in. Simply keep increasing productivity from "Need grain seed" until demand starts tapering off. At some point, farmers can't sell to the town because supply > demand (i.e. production cost > sell price or something. I assume farmers aren't giving away their grain for nothing so there ought to be a min price that they can't sell below) which triggers "Art of the deal" and reduces productivity.
Know what I mean? That would be impactful. Also, if the farmers are so productive, why are they leaving to become looters? All the +1 this and -2 that is great but I what I really want is to see the impact please.
It's an RPG game of sorts, right? I'm trying to be a good lord. Doing everything you can and still see your peasants turn to crime is mildly infuriating.
Death2Tyrants
Veteran
Well that's where the governor comes in.
It's like Robin Hood. Richard the Lionheart goes off to fight the crusades and his brother destroys the country or something which led to Robin Hood, i.e crime!
The appointed governors need to start dealing with the quests, for better or for worst. If you appoint a lousy governor, you ought to have a failing settlement. But therein lies the fix. The player can help out with quests. Or the other party leaders.
It depends.
Preconditions are not explained and it would probably not be terribly immersive to do so. They don't tend to be too complicated though - aka village is grain producer, area has low amount and high price aka there is some form of shortage -> there is a chance for a related narrative to arise.
Issue effects are listed in the settlement variable tooltips.
Quest rewards are partially highlighted (f.e. the relationship increase). Others may not be but could be gathered from the settlement / character stat changes. They also tend do "make sense" aka character / location you helped benefit (or recover) in related stats. Maybe a quest log entry could tally them up, though that seems like a hit or miss with immersion again.
The player can only help out with issues that exist. If the governors resolve them, the availability of issues is reduced. So the same would be achieved by reducing the % of issues to occur. But that comes with its own drawbacks (harder to target specific characters / locations). We also already do have AI lords resolving some issues (IIRC), though - to me - that is more geared towards a "living world" than enabling & counter-acting harsh(er) issue consequences.
Agreed! I never cared for quests because I thought they'd have little to no impact, so why bother.
@Duh_TaleWorlds It could help both immersion and quest attractiveness if there were some little hints coming to the player about the necessity of the quests. For instance, a villager traveling to you, asking for help because bandits have taken cattle (with a little Out Of Character tooltip that it decreases Hearths by 10% or something).
Explain both the preconditions and quest rewards in an immersive, roleplaying way.
Calabanar
Sergeant at Arms
Aren't lords supposed to do "quests" too?
I mean, if that's the case it shouldn't impact settlements too much unless there is war (which would in theme).
In a way, a more choice-based building system would have helped lessen the amount of quests, with certain buildings drastically improving security at the cost of prosperity and a steady upkeep for example... Want to save a few bucks and take quests? Keep the standard buildings. Don't have time to bother with such trivialities? Build and upgrade a Militia Quarters...
It's been a while since I have checked any Bannerlord perks, are there any that reduce the chances of bandits spawning for example? Say, a perk like "Sheriff" or "Crime Buster". That would help too, especially if NPCs could get them as well...
Idk, but have to agree with the main point of the topic as well: most quests are just ... boring. I expected them, even the generic ones, to give more a peek into M&B lore, just some roleplay value, but there's very little of that imo.
I mean, if that's the case it shouldn't impact settlements too much unless there is war (which would in theme).
In a way, a more choice-based building system would have helped lessen the amount of quests, with certain buildings drastically improving security at the cost of prosperity and a steady upkeep for example... Want to save a few bucks and take quests? Keep the standard buildings. Don't have time to bother with such trivialities? Build and upgrade a Militia Quarters...
It's been a while since I have checked any Bannerlord perks, are there any that reduce the chances of bandits spawning for example? Say, a perk like "Sheriff" or "Crime Buster". That would help too, especially if NPCs could get them as well...
Idk, but have to agree with the main point of the topic as well: most quests are just ... boring. I expected them, even the generic ones, to give more a peek into M&B lore, just some roleplay value, but there's very little of that imo.
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