Something is rotten in Calradia

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Is it better than nothing? Sure, if they were to add feasts that don't cause lords to leave their fiefs undefended during wartime then it wouldn't be a bad thing (nobody claimed it was a bad thing).
That being said, feasts (as implemented in warband) didn't really add anything to the game, except to make it easier to check all of the potential love interests to see which one is the cutest and to farm some relations.
 
So nice use of strawman everybody in this thread, arguing against a ridiculed version of someone's argument its always the better idea since you cant lose. Anyways, the thing of feasts is that they made sense in the world, Lords must gather from time to time, build relations do things that lords do, make the world seem a little more alive which is something this game is clearly lacking, there have been like what 3 or 4 threads lately talking about how poor immersion is, this is not something to ignore. The thing is not if Feasts were or not in Warband the thing is that Warband is a 10 year old game with 15 year old graphics and was hugely way more immersive than this game, and feasts played a role? Well, yes, they did. Seeing all the lords gather just to chill was a little touch that made the world fill dynamic, you could find their daughters and sisters gathered there to so you could find that lady that you like and his brother there to build relations, fighting against them in the arena was fun too, was it perfect? Well no, stupid harlaus was making feasts in the middle of a war, but doesnt mean it can be perfectioned and even, improved upon. Arguing against these kind of mechanics make no good since we're asking less for a game that can have much more. How much time are we going to keep saying "there are more important things to do now" if no one will end up playing due to boredom. Again, feasts arent the big deal, but they're a deal, and world building is made of a set of little deals that compliment each other and play little roles in order to be part of a bigger story, which is the player's story.

+1
Thank you! This thread started off well but because the person has history of complaints or something this thread went to a mess.

People wanting feast aren't saying that the top priority with BL problems, but that it shows us that BL left out a lot of things from WB that leave BL feeling empty.
 
They were a buggy mess for a very long time in Warband that interrupted sieges, weddings and sometimes kept summoning lords that had better things to do.
Yeah but that was quite rare and if they cant fix something for their sequel then damn.
Is it better than nothing? Sure, if they were to add feasts that don't cause lords to leave their fiefs undefended during wartime then it wouldn't be a bad thing (nobody claimed it was a bad thing).
That being said, feasts (as implemented in warband) didn't really add anything to the game, except to make it easier to check all of the potential love interests to see which one is the cutest and to farm some relations.
Like I've said above, it was part of world building. A world were nothing happens is a world that no one cares to visit. Just a stupid thing, but lets imagine that you're playing Skyrim, you're wandering in the route and you see a group of thalmors taking a prisioner. Essentialy they are not fun, because what, its just a bunch of npcs walking around, and taking them out of the game for whatever reason doesnt change almost anything, but the thing is, you're taking away a piece of world building that made it look more dynamic. Feasts are the same thing, they're not core to the experience but they are part of the experience essentially, so arguing that they dont matter or that they were not fun is just... well wrong.

People wanting feast aren't saying that the top priority with BL problems, but that it shows us that BL left out a lot of things from WB that leave BL feeling empty.
Yes, exactly, just to expand on the idea before, Skyrim is so unique and people dump so much hours into it, because it could come across as visiting a place, thanks to the sum of little experiences you come across in your path. Now lets think of Calradia and... what we get? Just a bunch of towns and castles and they look very pretty on the inside but honestly nothing else, just some people standing and thats it. Warband was that too but they felt like they were doing stuff, they were moving from here and there, you could do quests for them by asking personally and it felt like they had a purpose. Even sending letters, it was tedious, unfun but you were carrying a piece of information, of course, the information was fictional but it could come across as a real piece of information because you were commended that task, you see all those little details, dumb, superficial in the end made the game have another scale, make a sense of experience, and I recon that sending a letter must have been tedious in the actual medieval times but you know, its a task. Bannerlord could have improved upon its predecessor so much, it could have made those unfun and tedious actions at least sighlty more fun if anything.
 
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Timmortal is just acting and arguing in bad faith. He can't speak to any of the arguments made throughout this thread so he just attacks people for being passionate and critical about the game, which they have every right to do. I'm not sure what his issue is, or why he is so personally triggered, but I think its best if people who actually care about the game ignore people like him.
 
Timmortal is just acting and arguing in bad faith. He can't speak to any of the arguments made throughout this thread so he just attacks people for being passionate and critical about the game, which they have every right to do. I'm not sure what his issue is, or why he is so personally triggered, but I think its best if people who actually care about the game ignore people like him.
Lol, im acting towards you like you did towards me several times, annoying isent it?
 
"Variety is the spice of life"

In Bannerlord, fighting is really fun. But it is the only fun part of the game. And only in the early-mid game as afterwards your army is so large that you are forced into a commander role.

All the other gameplay features in the game are some form of a Skinner Box.
  • Village Issues are terrible and allow for almost 0 roleplay. Honestly they are in the same level of fetch quests in MMO to me.
    • Look at Skyrim's radiant quests. They are as shallow as fetch quests or Village Issues, but they reinforce the game's core mechanic of exploration and, therefore, are actually meaningful.
    • I use that as an example to showcase that Village Issues add nothing to the game except yet another Skinner Box to fool the player into thinking the game has content.
  • Economy is complex but that does not automatically mean fun. The economy is mostly manipulated through passive means (caravans and workshops) instead through player agency. Worst of all, it is convoluted from the players perspective and it does not tie itself back to any other system of gameplay in meaningful ways.
  • Diplomacy is similar, the system seems complex enough to handle interesting scenarios but it fails for three main reasons:
    • 1. Very little player agency until late game
    • 2. Many many policies with very small impacts. At one point I was in a kingdom with half of all the policies active and it felt 0% different than if none of them were active.
    • 3. It, again, does not tie into any other mechanic in the game.
      • Why as one of the most powerful merchants in Calradia I cannot affect Kingdom policies accross multiple factions?
      • Why as one of the most powerful lords in my faction I cannot "punch above my clan weight"?
  • Role playing is impossible outside of player imagination. None of the game mechanics really support RP focused play. This is fine if it is by design, but if you want to be an Action game with RP+Strategy features sprinkled in (leveling system, character creation, troop tactics), make sure that these supporting mechanics actually, you know, support your core game mechanic (Action). Throwing mechanics in game because it feels like they should be there is poor game design.
    • The traits are something particularly egregious (honour, devious, etc). Nothing ties into this from a player perspective.
  • Disjoint game mechanics. I have touched on this in my points above but it really needs its own bullet. NONE of the game mecahnics interact in meaningful ways.
  • War is CONSTANT and therefore BORING
  • Character progression does not introduce any new player mechanic, it is ALL passive apart from very few perks like the "everything has a price". (I dislike that perk for RP reasons, but at least it unlocks something new)
  • The world does not tell a story. There is very little sense of history or the impact of the passage of time. This is different from having a Main Quest line. Games can tell a compelling story without having a predefined narrative, just look at CK2.

And I agree that all the games mechanic are not fully impemented (Economy, War, Diplomacy, Leveling, Troop Tactics, etc.), but even at their partial state it is evident that there is little connective tissue between them.

It feels like the game was "designed" by a group of people saying "Oh, mechanic X is cool, lets add that" instead of "What is the essence of Bannerlord? OK, let's add mechanics that reinforce that".

Anyway, I'm in a Zoom meeting and should get to work :wink:

[edit for cleaning]
I wanted to push this post forward because its so well said and well done. You really should make this an independent post because it really encapsulates the frustrations and concerns of the players.
 
Yeah but that was quite rare and if they cant fix something for their sequel then damn.

Like I've said above, it was part of world building. A world were nothing happens is a world that no one cares to visit. Just a stupid thing, but lets imagine that you're playing Skyrim, you're wandering in the route and you see a group of thalmors taking a prisioner. Essentialy they are not fun, because what, its just a bunch of npcs walking around, and taking them out of the game for whatever reason doesnt change almost anything, but the thing is, you're taking away a piece of world building that made it look more dynamic. Feasts are the same thing, they're not core to the experience but they are part of the experience essentially, so arguing that they dont matter or that they were not fun is just... well wrong.
Sure, I agree with you. I'm just saying that warband feasts consisted of a bunch of nobles standing still in a room not doing anything. If they have a great new idea for it then I'm not going to be posting "why would you waste time on this TW!"
 
Sure, I agree with you. I'm just saying that warband feasts consisted of a bunch of nobles standing still in a room not doing anything. If they have a great new idea for it then I'm not going to be posting "why would you waste time on this TW!"

I think the argument is, feast gave the game a touch of immersion and flavor. It wasn't that feast were amazing, its just that, it was a place to interact with NPC's to learn about them, and their interest. It gave the game flavor, which Bannerlord (outside of combat) has none. NPC Lords don't even stay in their settlements for any amount of time to interact with
 
Sure, I agree with you. I'm just saying that warband feasts consisted of a bunch of nobles standing still in a room not doing anything. If they have a great new idea for it then I'm not going to be posting "why would you waste time on this TW!"

That's why im disappointed with TW and BL. WB had feast that you described perfectly accurate lol. BL should have at the very least what you described. My disappointment is that they don't evolve from WB and add games (drinking, culture customs to add lore, duels, etc) to gain or lose relation points within kingdom. Side quest that happen that night like a game of thrones "red wedding" power shift. Attempting or defending lord/kings from assassination attempts. So much to add to such a simple thing WB had.
 
That's why im disappointed with TW and BL. WB had feast that you described perfectly accurate lol. BL should have at the very least what you described. My disappointment is that they don't evolve from WB and add games (drinking, culture customs to add lore, duels, etc) to gain or lose relation points within kingdom. Side quest that happen that night like a game of thrones "red wedding" power shift. Attempting or defending lord/kings from assassination attempts. So much to add to such a simple thing WB had.
Launching a rebellion in your kingdom by assassinating the leaders of a rival clan (or rival faction consisting of several clans) at dinner would be fantastic to be sure. I'm not sure if political assassination is acceptable in bannerlord society but maybe a future mod

Edit: by "faction" here I mean a political faction within your kingdom. Perhaps some clans support a particular set of policies that another group opposes.
 
Launching a rebellion in your kingdom by assassinating the leaders of a rival clan (or rival faction consisting of several clans) at dinner would be fantastic to be sure. I'm not sure if political assassination is acceptable in bannerlord society but maybe a future mod

I can only wish at this point lol.
 
The problem isn't just the missing feast feature by itself, the problem is so many features and dynamics that are just completely gone from M&B, which culminates into just a shell of what we had before. It's just one example of a very serious problem.

The sequel has FEWER features when it should have MORE. Even just the same amount would be a step up from what we have now. It's sad that small team Indie TW, and some amateur modders, can absolutely destroy what TW as a now legitimately sized developer managed to accomplish. I was expecting intrigue and politics and in-depth dynamics and systems. Instead, we have "Make Peace, Declare War" and "I don't like this vassal, kick that ******* out" as the extent of the "intrigue". And with marriage and courtship, we basically have "marry me waifu" with "events" meaning a response of "sure" or "no" proceeding into an instant marriage. If I wanted just an action game I would simply play the multiplayer or some actual action-focused combat game like Arkham City or something. We wanted next level M&B, with MORE Strategy, RPG, and Simulation, not just an action game.
 
Yeah, I dont understand what not caring about feasts or them not being fun means at all, like, did they got in the way of your fun or something, I really dont get it, why would anyone NOT want a feast option implemented. Its like, it makes no sense?

Yes.

It made the campaign AI do spectacularly stupid things and helped lead to the stereotypical Swadian downward spiral as the lords of a kingdom would head to the feast rather than defend against the army heading to besiege a fief, then lose said fief, resulting in relations penalty between ruler and lords that caused the kingdom AI to loop around to throwing another feast to fix them, etc. The solution to it was basically exploiting another under-developed system, friendships, by cranking your honor rating as high as you could, so every honorable personality lord was your friend by default. Even if they'd never met you once. You could talk to them and tell them to follow you instead of go to the feast.
 
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Absolutely agree.

I feel like the constant war is there because there's absolutely nothing do in the game besides that, and even then, it's limited if you compare it to other MnBs.

The problem isn't just the missing feast feature by itself, the problem is so many features and dynamics that are just completely gone from M&B, which culminates into just a shell of what we had before. It's just one example of a very serious problem.

The sequel has FEWER features when it should have MORE. Even just the same amount would be a step up from what we have now. It's sad that small team Indie TW, and some amateur modders, can absolutely destroy what TW as a now legitimately sized developer managed to accomplish. I was expecting intrigue and politics and in-depth dynamics and systems. Instead, we have "Make Peace, Declare War" and "I don't like this vassal, kick that ******* out" as the extent of the "intrigue". And with marriage and courtship, we basically have "marry me waifu" with "events" meaning a response of "sure" or "no" proceeding into an instant marriage. If I wanted just an action game I would simply play the multiplayer or some actual action-focused combat game like Arkham City or something. We wanted next level M&B, with MORE Strategy, RPG, and Simulation, not just an action game.

This. It's this all over. The only thing Bannerlord got going for it is it's the only game trying to deliver massive battles from a single player perspective.
Is it fun? Absolutely. But it also gets boring fast and there's nothing else in the game.

Breaking into enemy cities? It does nothing. I suppose we can at least shop...
Ambushes? Nope. It bothers me quite some that we can roam the map so freely. No settlement/castle choke points, no tolls, no enemies lurking in the woods, etc... Of course it would be worse if we also couldn't move because of still undeveloped features. Still, plain and simple and boring.
Raiding? Watch a loading bar while getting bad loot. Congrats, village burned. Not like it matters much anyway.
That huge body of water in the game? Dead.
Bandit lords in cities? They get you MMO quests (sometimes) and that's it.

And we can probably go on regarding all the sub developed content in the game. It would be a very pleasant surprise if they were cooking a huge overhaul, but there's so much missing and it gets done so slowly I have very little hope the game will get significantly better in a year.This is going in the direction of another 10 dollars game
 
This is going in the direction of another 10 dollars game
The price is a whole another tragedy; Not only are they not ashamed of putting up an ever so inferior version of nearly a decade-old prequel, but they also charge 50 for it? Really hard to sympathize with TW given the price, not to mention the countless nonsensical and plain retarded development decisions and denial to admit and address issues when that's literally been their slogan for the early access period.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't care about feasts? A mechanic that gives NPCs something peaceful to do is a fine idea but really, feasts were never fun.
This is another feature from WB that the devs could really improve and expand on. Make feasts actually matter. Have custom scenes and animations of lords around a long candle lit table, eating and laughing and talking. Introduce new interesting quests that can only happen at feats. Perhaps they could be based around political intrigue: Slip poison into Lord X's wine, Seduce the daughter of Lord Y, Get the King drunk and get some information out of him, Follow Lord Z to his secret lovers place and black mail him. Rewards could range from influence to gold to relations. Just give the player something to do for **** sake.

Or simply add the ability to get really drunk and let you walk around town or the keep in a drunk state. Something like what GTA does. It may seem trivial or useless but things like this allow the player to connect more closely with his avatar in game. It lets you care more about what goes on in this game world. Perhaps a particularly happy go lucky lord is always taking you out drinking during feasts and you form a soft spot for him. If he's ever killed in battle or executed it would mean more to the player than just text scrolling on the side.
 
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