Settlement Scene Making Guide

wickedshot said:

Yes, but in sieges you never have horses, where as I want you to be able to roam around on horseback, and to use the same scenes for sieges as for walking around.  I don't like places I mysteriously can't go while on a horse heh.

I'm planning to use scripting to get troops to go where they need to go, rather than limit where they go.

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Again: why do you think you can't cross AI meshes with a horse? The towns in Native have AI meshes in all outdoor scenes, not just in sieges, and you can ride round them on a horse just fine.

The reason for AI meshes is so that you don't have troops accidentally falling off walls and things like that - it's much more sensible done there than it would be to attempt to do it in the code (as wall positions will differ for each scene).

The reason I think you can't move through AI meshes while riding a horse is because I've tried riding through an AI mesh while riding a horse and it stops me everytime heh.  I enjoy the AI meshes theory, but theory doesn't help me actually ride through the meshes on a horse.

I've added a list of the settlements with their associated number (for scene file reference) and their maker, to the first post of this thread.  If anyone is working on a specific settlement let me know and I'll add your name to the settlement you're working on to help avoid multiple people working on the same settlements (though not a huge deal if two people use the same settlement).

Please add me for 15- Emptiac

as a Work In Progress. Thanks

Done, but aren't you working on two currently?

I am; but I can't remember the name/or number of the other file.

It started out as a terrain modifying experiment, it has been SO manipulated that honestly you can just throw it down anywhere. (There is no terrain similarity to anything else at all). Essentially, you can just change the file # and throw it where needed. Or as a bonus in case all of the settlements are magically completed before I can get these next 2 done !

wickedshot said:

The reason I think you can't move through AI meshes while riding a horse is because I've tried riding through an AI mesh while riding a horse and it stops me everytime heh.  I enjoy the AI meshes theory, but theory doesn't help me actually ride through the meshes on a horse.

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So, to clarify, you can't ride through any of the towns in Native on horseback? That sounds like a serious bug. I can assure you that it works fine for me.

Wait; all of a sudden I am terribly confused.

AI meshes come in 2 flavors, no? The bizarre red/green flashing kind (which are measured in meters), and the other sort which is terrain based one that you have to render in order to actually view, and actually is responsible for what we are walking on? (And possibly independent of the textures). This second sort is the one which you can select, create, and delete numerous vertices, edges and faces from (in a polygonal fashion)?

Which meshes are you guys talking about?

Liquidninja said:

Unfortunately the default Mount and Blade does not come with the oriental-style architecture models. The only ones available are the selections you see in Native; anything else, and you'll have to go quite beyond edit mode: either making your own building models or borrowing them.

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Well, maybe I can use something from Onin no Ran for my personal use.

I'll contact fujiwara anyway.

Liquidninja said:

Wait; all of a sudden I am terribly confused.

AI meshes come in 2 flavors, no? The bizarre red/green flashing kind (which are measured in meters), and the other sort which is terrain based one that you have to render in order to actually view, and actually is responsible for what we are walking on? (And possibly independent of the textures). This second sort is the one which you can select, create, and delete numerous vertices, edges and faces from (in a polygonal fashion)?

Which meshes are you guys talking about?

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I'm talking about AI limiters that you place as objects in scenes, I didn't even know about that whole Edit mesh thing heh.

lol.. I was wondering about this when I read the guide the other day.

AI meshes are the best thing in the world for outdoor scenes, you should make people put them in for sure. That way, all that stuff with entry points for prisoners and such won't matter anymore. NPCs will find their own way.

Just make sure the AI mesh is all made from 1 piece, otherwise they seem to ignore it altogether (that's my experience anyway).

Easiest way for an outdoor scene is to do the 'create AI mesh' since that covers the whole land and then you simply remove the faces or move edges around the bits where you don't want NPCs to walk. This is how the walker npcs in towns know not to walk into buildings.

The other things are AI limiters which work differently. My theory is that the AI ignores the AI mesh in certain cases, like when a unit is backing up in combat. But an AI limiter is a hard limit which they'll never cross. But I might be wrong here, this is just what I've seen from the few scenes I've edited

Ah, we're on the same page at last!

Yes, I was talking about the AI meshes that pop up under "Edit AI Mesh" in the editor. They're fiddly to create, but I suspect that when you've got people running about the walls during sieges, they'll be absolutely and totally necessary.

Ah yes, now everything makes sense. Seems like we were all talking about 2 different things before. Ahem, now that's cleared up.

@ MartinF, I think your theory about AI limiters is right. It is probably a never cross type of deal, however they are just bizarre (since they have sidedness) which means that potentially you can "push" AI NPCs to one side, or funnel them. Very strange. If removing faces means that the NPC's won't walk there - that could be very useful. I've always wondered how AI knew to climb up stairs and turn corners. This could make narrow-streets in our custom settlements a possibility! I will have to fire up Native again and see how it's done.

@ Sophist/wickedshot regarding AI meshes (the fiddly kind): I've read (somewhere, a while ago) that the number of faces is actually quite involved in pathfinding (in fact, using fewer faces will actually trick the AI into thinking it is a shorter path). This presents both good and bad implications.

I think by default, the AI mesh is just one and the same as the terrain (so the AI will pathfind naturally based on what you've made), although this means that extreme contortions - such as staggered slops will make for funny business: ever noticed AI jumping down a steep slope to get at each other? Or trying to run up one?

Myself, I haven't yet mastered (or even begun to understand!) the intricacies of such things, but I'll give it another look the next time I'm in the scene builder and am feeling brave enough.

It's really not that complicated, if you understand the basics of 3D modeling, using vertices, edges and faces and manipulating them. The best thing in the editor is the 'create AI mesh' button because without that mapping an outdoor scene would literally take years.

You can manipulate edges and such the same way as you would move around props. If what you're saying about pathfinding is true, that is interesting. I try to stick to the native 'small squares'.

And yeah, there's not reason you can't have narrow streets, as long as you lay the paths properly. For walkers it's even better because you can simulate certain things by using a creative path and you could even trigger animations once they get to a certain location. So if place a tree trunk, say, you can actually have a guy go over and whack his hatchet at it before walking to the woodpile, or something similar, without having to map out every single movement. Just make him walk from a to b and he'll follow the AI mesh

yay for not having all your people stand around doing nothing all day anymore

I want to try to do Empta (7) over the weekend and then maybe Emptic (5) if the previous one goes well.
I've tried messing with the editor a bit and it seems learnable enough but I won't have time to delve into it till friday.
Please add me for those two for now.
Thank you.

MartinF said:

It's really not that complicated, if you understand the basics of 3D modeling, using vertices, edges and faces and manipulating them. The best thing in the editor is the 'create AI mesh' button because without that mapping an outdoor scene would literally take years.

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Ah, but I don't understand the basics of 3D modeling at all. Haha. But what you say IS interesting, I think I will definitely see if I can learn to do anything with it at all. Thanks for the info.

@ Chammadai: Kudos for playing around in the editor Good luck, if you have any questions, feel to ask me, and I think Achilles_ has also offered his help (he's more organized than I am for scene building), but yeah, I'll try my best to offer advice based on my experience in building settlements

wickedshot said:

I've added a list of the settlements with their associated number (for scene file reference) and their maker, to the first post of this thread.  If anyone is working on a specific settlement let me know and I'll add your name to the settlement you're working on to help avoid multiple people working on the same settlements (though not a huge deal if two people use the same settlement).

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Hey, first post here.  I've been following this mod for some time and I've decided to make 2 settlements.  I had trouble with making an account or I would have posted this sooner.  I'm currently working on Emptic and Empto (though the latter is just in the beginning phases and will take a week to finish at least).

It seems that I may be doing a settlement that someone else is, too.  Is there any way to port my work into another settlement (including the terrain), or do we just have duplicate material for a few towns?

It's perfectly alright for two settlements from the same one.  Ultimately only the terrain will be the same and they'll diverge afterwards (and it'll be interesting to see the difference).  I'll add your two to the list.

Nice, the plans continue the same, with 1 new settlement per version???

The 1 settlement per version was the original minimum, such that for each version I would have made 1 settlement.  But we are far beyond that currently, especially if the works in progress finish.
My eventual goal is between 50 and 100, but for now the main goal is 25, after which I'll need a ton more companions before adding more settlements.