why is archery so broken in this mod and everything else just pales at its side?

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Don't understand the issue people have with archers.

The Noldor are the only ones that pose some sort of obstacle with their fireline. Archery (MHO) lost its magic, for many PoP versions now. Any decent troops that manage to occupy enemy's spawn spot on the battlefield will win.

whoever intends to fight a battle in front of a constantly supplied archer line , get's what he deserves - it is not a question of balance.

The way this game stages battles the sort of archery we get in this mod simply adds a bit of spice as with such present battle mechanics one actually doesn't need archery at all.
 
I don´t think archery´s broken. The whole system is rather flawed. Giving power draw a damage bonus is the main issue why archery is such a beast to tackle - but that´s a hardcoded vanilla issue and a problem in every mod out there.

Highly noteable especially if you play a vanilla game. Horse archer is the cheese option there. Overall, I´d say it´s pretty balanced and with basic tactics you´ll be able to negotiate immediate destruction and tacke the problem. Simply don´t expect a bunch of militia troopers to hold a candle against anything ranged because that won´t happen. And if you´re frustrated by beeing headshot from your horse by a Noldor over half the map, you clearly haven´t been shot in the head by a Fierdsvain Huntsmen a split second before you crushed his skull with your axe.

There´s theese moments in PoP and every other game. Either cope with it or leave it be.
 
ermine said:
whoever intends to fight a battle in front of a constantly supplied archer line , get's what he deserves - it is not a question of balance.
Click to expand...
The question of balance is that it's rather easy to push just this situation on the AI, practically every time. And a tactics/strategy game with a singular go-to tactic is poorly balanced as a tactics/strategy game. Story is different if you take it as a sandbox game, where choosing to use only inferior tactics is just "hard mode", and using the best tactic is "cheapening yourself". So take it as you wish.
 
IconracI said:
... The only way to change ranged combat in a reasonable time is to play with few values in the module.ini. Changes to the ranged weapons stats will affect units autoresolve values, which will require adjustments to soldiers equipment and stats, then world map rebalance and tests. Those activities are rather boring and time consuming.
Click to expand...
There is constant in module.ini called "missile_damage_speed_power = 1.2". In order to change archers impact on the battlefield this constant can be:
- reduced = more average damage, 
- increased = less average damage.

It seems 2.0 is max and min I tested was 0.1.

QdOtQRR.jpg

Example of what this means: 100 Dragon Drakes (64 body armour, all with shields) attacking double line of 100 D'Shar Ghazi Marksmen positioned on a small hill (attackers not slowed down). How many enemies is able to reach archers line?
0.1 = 4
1.2 = 11
2.0 = 25 
 
Noldor are OP mary sues and grand jerks by design, yeah. And you're pretty much forced to bow down to them and appease them if you want to complete the game. Is it fun? Not really, unless you like to roleplay as an elf. But is it the right of the developers to make the game how they see it? Yes, it absolutely is.
Missile troops are grossly overpowered, infantry is weak and useless unless you micromanage it to hell and back, and most of the battles boil down to either F1-F3 cavalry charge or archery shootouts.

That said? Mod is still pretty fun, if you can stomach all that. Or just cheat or modify the game to be to your liking.

And if you want a more 'realistic' experience without overpowered archers/horse archers/heavy cavalry, I recommend you play Viking Conquest, as it offers the best experience for fans of infantry-based warfare.

Prophesy of Pendor is a gorgeous fantasy experience on its own, though. It's not realistic, it's not very fair, and it's extremely grindy and tedious at times, but it is perfect if you want that high-quality 'enhanced fantasy native' vibe simply because none of the other mods have the same feel, and same polish.
 
it's not broken
take some good crossbows and you'll do fine
anyways all mods have to make choices when making their lore and units like op swadian knights or huscarls in WB and so on :smile:
just enjoy the show :smile:
 
I think the only thing "broken" is the fact that for the player, bow is by far the best weapon choice.  The combination of good damage, perfect accuracy, high rate of fire and near infinite ammo (ie. very easy to replenish either from stash or the dead) makes the player a death dealing machine.  Add to that a fast and resilient horse and now you are a fast moving death dealing machine.

Here is the thing, a Noldor Twilight Knight has better stats than the player.  However, the impact of the twilight knight is magnitudes lower than the player's.  Simply because of the difference in the way the AI & player act.

By "broken", I just mean that it is by far the superior option to any other one FOR THE PLAYER.


 
ermine said:
Don't understand the issue people have with archers.

The Noldor are the only ones that pose some sort of obstacle with their fireline. Archery (MHO) lost its magic, for many PoP versions now. Any decent troops that manage to occupy enemy's spawn spot on the battlefield will win.

whoever intends to fight a battle in front of a constantly supplied archer line , get's what he deserves - it is not a question of balance.

The way this game stages battles the sort of archery we get in this mod simply adds a bit of spice as with such present battle mechanics one actually doesn't need archery at all.
Click to expand...

It's isn't about fighting the AI,at least not for me.A player using a bow will have a far easier time than a player going for a meele build it's just unbalanced.


depends on what you're proficient
if you're good in melee you can be broken too don't worry man
if you have fun with archery go for it
Click to expand...

Not really archery is far easier than meele,I can do both but with archery it's just easier and with a lower risk.
 
Using archery will rake in way more kills than pure melee in a siege all else being equal. Its completely undeniable. If you say otherwise either you are bull****ing or are especially bad at archery.
 
RumbleBee said:
Using archery will rake in way more kills than pure melee in a siege all else being equal. Its completely undeniable. If you say otherwise either you are bull****ing or are especially bad at archery.
Click to expand...
I think @Zoom Khaï meant offensive sieges, where ammo refills don't happen automatically. In which, after you've made it onto the walls with your units, with a melee weapon that has 125+ speed (Sapphire Rune Sword/Axe preferably, so that you won't even need to block), and if you find a nice spot to hold, then it's gg. You alone will be able to fill the battle text buffer as you just spam attacks. Which can be a lot faster than killing with a Sapphire Rune Bow even (not to mention that you'll have to switch and aim at new targets, and look for ammo or borrow some quite often)
 
I agree, armor barely exist here. This leads to broken everything and minmaxing, grinding of qualis gems wich is boring as hell, there is no point to wear most expensive and exclusive armor if you have a shield or two.  I cannot see how plate armor gets slashed through with just a sword on normal damage. I agree, there can be some magic stuff, but not every vanscerry raider has to have it. Close to realistic damage is 1/4 for plate armor wearer.


 
Archery seems pretty balanced to me, as it has been powerful the past 10 years since the mod came out.

But so are melee units in combat..

Where you been?

If strong archery isnt your thing then you might want to pass on the mod
 
I don't feel that archery is broken. Any units with good shields and a few points in shield skill will survive long enough. You usually flank archers too, so you don't loose your precious knights to random ranged tier 2 units. I even don't use a bow myself, because i loose killspeed everywhere except castle defences. And i am not a fan of castle defences. It is close to realism when large mass of archers oblitarate everything. Look at  battle of Agincourt.


Plus, you can modify the module. PoP is tweak simulator anyway.
 
Messire said:
I don't feel that archery is broken. Any units with good shields and a few points in shield skill will survive long enough. You usually flank archers too, so you don't loose your precious knights to random ranged tier 2 units. I even don't use a bow myself, because i loose killspeed everywhere except castle defences. And i am not a fan of castle defences. It is close to realism when large mass of archers oblitarate everything. Look at  battle of Agincourt.


Plus, you can modify the module. PoP is tweak simulator anyway.
Click to expand...

You are aware that the majority of casulties at Agincourt came from  he melee?And that the battle is famous for thehuge ammount of of french knights that were captured alive?And if you lose kill speed when usigna bow you're simply not goodat using them.

Archery seems pretty balanced to me, as it has been powerful the past 10 years since the mod came out.

But so are melee units in combat..
Click to expand...

Compared to melee units?No a good archer can easily wreck any meele unit before it gets's close and if I use a horse they will never manage that.
 
Really interesting thread.
In the end it's just a game designed to be fun for most people, just because you can field armies of killing machines, does not mean you have to.

You can train a horde of peasant bowman into master archers in a few weeks with good training skills, in reality this would take years.  If you want a more realistic army don't upgrade all your troops, field armies that are 60% low level fodder, 30% trained regulars, 10% A class death machines  :wink:.

Use your own judgement when equipping your character & companions, eg if a set of armour looks like it would interfere with archery then you don't use it if you are playing a mounted archer. 
 
Salzber said:
Messire said:
I don't feel that archery is broken. Any units with good shields and a few points in shield skill will survive long enough. You usually flank archers too, so you don't loose your precious knights to random ranged tier 2 units. I even don't use a bow myself, because i loose killspeed everywhere except castle defences. And i am not a fan of castle defences. It is close to realism when large mass of archers oblitarate everything. Look at  battle of Agincourt.


Plus, you can modify the module. PoP is tweak simulator anyway.
Click to expand...

You are aware that the majority of casulties at Agincourt came from  he melee?And that the battle is famous for thehuge ammount of of french knights that were captured alive?And if you lose kill speed when usigna bow you're simply not goodat using them.

Archery seems pretty balanced to me, as it has been powerful the past 10 years since the mod came out.

But so are melee units in combat..
Click to expand...

Compared to melee units?No a good archer can easily wreck any meele unit before it gets's close and if I use a horse they will never manage that.
Click to expand...

It's a video game and as far as your mind is capable of knowing, Pendor does not have to oblige to the rules of the real world.

Are you a Pendor physicist? Fletcher to know how strong arrows are?

Don't mix real-life and Pendor, your argument falls flat. Easily.
 
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