Nords can be part of the DLC, and they also have a mini fraction. And Kievan Rus itself is similar to the Vikings. Therefore I "Sturgia should be Kievan Rus!"
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Culture of Sturgia
- Thread starter AJIexander
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Sturgia as a faction is based off of Kievan Rus, as stated in a development blog, and Kievan Rus is mostly agreed upon to be heavily influenced by Scandinavian cultures through the Varangians (vikings), in what's called the 'normanist' interpretation referring to the region settled by the viking Rollo, though it is worth mentioning that is disputed quite heavily especially by Slavic nationalists and the controversy was revived by the soviet regime after it had died down in previous years. In more recent years Russia and post-soviet countries have started to favour the 'anti-normanist' interpretation whereas they had previously reverted backed to the 'normanist' interpretation after the fall of the soviet union.
Though as I said earlier most (generally non-Slavic) historians agree on the 'normanist' interpretation, a common argument for this is that the Slavic name Olga ostensibly is a derivative of the Old Norse name Helga along with a couple other names of early slavic leaders being in a similar situation. It is also hypothesised that the Rus' people share an origin with their name as Roslagen. (I'm not sure if this is relevant but if you pronounce Roslagen in Swedish "Ros-" sounds like "Rus")
So to say
Though as I said earlier most (generally non-Slavic) historians agree on the 'normanist' interpretation, a common argument for this is that the Slavic name Olga ostensibly is a derivative of the Old Norse name Helga along with a couple other names of early slavic leaders being in a similar situation. It is also hypothesised that the Rus' people share an origin with their name as Roslagen. (I'm not sure if this is relevant but if you pronounce Roslagen in Swedish "Ros-" sounds like "Rus")
So to say
Implies some Scandinavian (Viking) influence.
KhergitLancer80
Banned
Sturgia is inspired by Kievan Rus and the only problem here is that some people are having hard time acknowledging that Kievan Rus=/= Slavs.
I will quote this until everyone understands:
Edit: Your ancestors co-existed with scandinavians under the state of Kievan Rus actually some even claim the Rus itself was a Varangian(Scandinavian) tribe.
Taleworlds never promised a 100% slav faction, they promised a faction based on Kievan Rus in which eastern slavs made up the majority but because scandinavians were more in the noble class, they were also influencial. I dont think TW is undecisive about Sturgians it is about your expectations.
I will quote this until everyone understands:
KhergitLancer80 said:-Same goes for Kievan Rus as well, because it is a fantasy game like other factions TW used Sturgia as a melting pot of ''northern cultures who were culturally interacting each other'' and actually this is what Kievan Rus historically was anyway. Read these wiki screenshots I underlined the key points:
It does not take a genious to understand that Kievan Rus was a melting pot of more than one people primarily eastern slavs and scandinavians.
Here for the army:
It clearly points out the scandinavian influence.
And here it points out the relation between scandinavians and Druzhina.
The relation that you found absurd.
Turns out that first Druzhina were made up of Scandinavians.
Really irrevelant indeed.
Varangians were Scandinavians, huscarl is the term for bodyguard of the lord in english, druzhina is the fellowship protecting the lord and first druzhina were Varangians. Did you see where I am coming around ?
Edit: Your ancestors co-existed with scandinavians under the state of Kievan Rus actually some even claim the Rus itself was a Varangian(Scandinavian) tribe.
Taleworlds never promised a 100% slav faction, they promised a faction based on Kievan Rus in which eastern slavs made up the majority but because scandinavians were more in the noble class, they were also influencial. I dont think TW is undecisive about Sturgians it is about your expectations.
The problem is that even your own links state that Kievan Rus =/= Vikings either and yet that's what Sturgia seems to be so far.KhergitLancer80 said:
I don't even care about it by itself, I'm just bummed about missed opportunity, cause Sturgian basic troop tree could consist of lightweight local Calradian folk in more Slavic style, while more Nord-like troops could be made into separate elite tree/chain that would require you to actually be buddies with the mentioned Nord nobility to recruit.
I'm still clawing at last strands of hope that troop trees at Gamescon were just quickly mashed together for sake of presentation and Bannerlord still has this
in, because this is such a good ideaDev Blog 07/09/17 said:
Do not look here said:
you recruit ur units from npcs anyways
Sturgia already has the Heavy Nord Infantry from warband no point discussing it at this point if you want the game to come out this century
changing one tech tree at this point might require to rework all troop trees for balance, please dont give talesworld this idea because they dumb enough to rework everything again
Caps said:
Hopefully, nothing needs changing. The Sturgian Volunteer upgrades include Huskarls, but they don't look like Vikings. Heavily armoured Nord infantry may still be recruitable from the minor mercenary faction formed by the dead emperor's unemployed guards (based on the Byzantine varangian guard) or the Skolderbrotva.
Nord has it's own culture listing/filter in BL's encyclopaedia:
Also the Skolderbrotva are a minor faction outside the Sturgian troop tree. The Sturgian Dev Blog said:
if players want to have a west Scandinavian-style play experience, the raiding, the companions, the ring-swords, two-handed axes, Valsgarde helmets, hauberks and raven banners will all be there. Among the Sturgian minor factions are the Skolderbroda, a mercenary brotherhood based on the (possibly legendary) Jomsvikings of the Baltic.
Do not look here said:I'm still clawing at last strands of hope that troop trees at Gamescon were just quickly mashed together for sake of presentation and Bannerlord still has this
in, because this is such a good ideaDev Blog 07/09/17 said:
I hope so.
Do not look here said:I'm still clawing at last strands of hope that troop trees at Gamescon were just quickly mashed together for sake of presentation and Bannerlord still has this
in, because this is such a good ideaDev Blog 07/09/17 said:
Funny thing is that the humble vlandian bowman is a special troop while the knight can be mass produced
English-speaking people have a poor idea of what Kievan Rus is. Some do not even know that there is such a country as Belarus or Ukraine, where there to Kievan Rus.
What I saw in the game in the YouTube, I like. In addition to some things: some flags are too similar to Norwegian and Anglo-Saxon. Although Kievan Rus had its own tribal attributes and flags.
In addition, Kievan Rus was not exclusively Norwegian, it had its own equipment and weapons, its own personal visual style and clothing. The Vikings were only part of the military force.
The game lacked some Slavic attributes, but it was only a demo version, so nothing can be said directly.
What I saw in the game in the YouTube, I like. In addition to some things: some flags are too similar to Norwegian and Anglo-Saxon. Although Kievan Rus had its own tribal attributes and flags.
In addition, Kievan Rus was not exclusively Norwegian, it had its own equipment and weapons, its own personal visual style and clothing. The Vikings were only part of the military force.
The game lacked some Slavic attributes, but it was only a demo version, so nothing can be said directly.
Umm... Norwegian?, last time I checked the consensus was that the Kievan Rus' were of more Swedish influenced probably also some other nationalities as well (because that's how these things usually go).
I'm not sure what you consider the 'Kievan Rus' look', but you can definitely see Scandinavian influence through their kite shields (remember the Normans, that were famous for their kite shields, were originally founded by Vikings), maille and lamellar armour, and their distinctive pointed helmets (which often had a chain aventail, much like the Vikings did).
So while I agree Sturgia currently doesn't look as Slavic as many fans expect, I would argue it's not as bad as many proclaim. However the whole naming thing, clan banners, and troop trees are a different story, but I won't get in to that.
I'm not sure what you consider the 'Kievan Rus' look', but you can definitely see Scandinavian influence through their kite shields (remember the Normans, that were famous for their kite shields, were originally founded by Vikings), maille and lamellar armour, and their distinctive pointed helmets (which often had a chain aventail, much like the Vikings did).
So while I agree Sturgia currently doesn't look as Slavic as many fans expect, I would argue it's not as bad as many proclaim. However the whole naming thing, clan banners, and troop trees are a different story, but I won't get in to that.
Lord Engineer said:Umm... Norwegian?, last time I checked the consensus was that the Kievan Rus' were of more Swedish influenced probably also some other nationalities as well (because that's how these things usually go).
I'm not sure what you consider the 'Kievan Rus' look', but you can definitely see Scandinavian influence through their kite shields (remember the Normans, that were famous for their kite shields, were originally founded by Vikings), maille and lamellar armour, and their distinctive pointed helmets (which often had a chain aventail, much like the Vikings did).
So while I agree Sturgia currently doesn't look as Slavic as many fans expect, I would argue it's not as bad as many proclaim. However the whole naming thing, clan banners, and troop trees are a different story, but I won't get in to that.
Judging by your words, the whole world consisted of Vikings and the culture was all Scandinavian. You do not know how the nomads greatly influenced the Kievan Rus. In Kievan Rus there were a couple of rulers of the northerners, but this does not mean that a hundred thousand people were northerners.
KhergitLancer80
Banned
Even the very tribe of Rus itself is claimed to be of Scandinavian origin by some scholars.
True, slavs were the majority, massively outnumbering others but because Scandinavians were mostly noble, they were very influential.
True, slavs were the majority, massively outnumbering others but because Scandinavians were mostly noble, they were very influential.
KhergitLancer80 said:
What is noble in your notion?
Again, similarly to artwork I posted in the other Sturgia controversy thread, this screenshot doesn't really look like the Sturgia in the gamescon demo. I'd be more than okay with it, if that was how their warriors looked like.Lord Engineer said:
To be fair, though, the troop tree did look like it wasn't even properly touched yet and lots of units were just kind of equipped, with generic shirts and no helmets. Again, that gives me hope that the idea of having 'elite' versions of units in separate troop chain is still in, it was just dropped for the sake of playable demo.
I did say influenced, I did not say that there were thousands of northerners. I did also state that Kievan Rus' was probably influenced by other cultures, which would include the nomads you mentioned, which would probably mean Turkic and Finnic people. Culture, like language, tends to be very fluid changing often due to multiple forms of influence.AJIexander said:
So no, I do not think there were a hundred thousand northerners in Kievan Rus', it appears to me that Scandinavian explorers intermixed with the local population and assimilated them enforcing part of their culture onto them.
Also Scandinavians are some of history's most prolific explorers so I wouldn't think it to be too unfeasible that they had a lot of influence over many cultures, especially one so relatively close to Scandinavia. Let us not forget that Scandinavians did a lot of trading with other cultures which they probably influenced, and were influenced by, them. So if Vikings did use lamellar, then it was probably from Turkic origin.
Yeah, I hope they have only temporarily abandoned the original look. Honestly I didn't say anything about the Gamescom footage in this regard as I presumed the current look to be a placeholder or something.Do not look here said:
I would also love a seperate 'noble'/'elite' troop tree. Let's hope.
ArnulfFloyd
Knight at Arms
Sturgia is in my opinion a faction with Rus and Viking influences, regarding look from Gamescom, pic of leader suggest this thing because presence of Vendel-style helmets. Banners of clans were Norse in appereance. Remember as Bannerlord not is a historical game, factions takes inspiration from multiple nations
I do not mind if Sturgia will have only the culture of the Vikings. But I would not like that there would be a mix, it spoils the style of the faction.
