[WNL6] Week 6 Fixtures - Deadline 07/01

Can I also post 3 year old screens like zoyka? pls?

Zoyka said:

Rey' said:

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Можешь не гавкать , все равно в ае не возьмут.

Scar said:

I wish I was able to forsee the results of 111 matches, tournaments would be a piece of cake for AE.

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Unfortunately you haven't forseen this

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UPD. Ye , It is cool that you deleted your post , I am tired reading your excuses.

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Please keep the discussion civil and refrain from any kinds of insults.

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I think it would be better to tweak the current system than starting with a new one all over again. Otherwise things will never get better over time and we all try to invent the wheel over and over again. Divisions are possibly a great thing, but as it has been said several times there is a lack of consistent teams which makes it difficult to get proper divisions. Moreover, the divisions should be based rather on previous performance than on subjective ratings. And this league system at least could be a good base for it. But overall I think even a league could work if a different tie break score was used (e.g., one that weights the later matches higher than the first ones), if prescores were added to get the system working better in the beginning (e.g., median of the strenghts of the team ratings by all participants), and if a rule was added which prevents to face the same opponent twice during the 7 weeks league period.

Aeronwen said:

Charlini said:

Changing something that can determine who qualifies for knockout stage on week 6 would be awful. I think there are 5 matches only until the tournament ends so just focus on ending it and learn from this for the next one. I'm sure most people dislike the rematches and don't like the way the match ups are determined on the current rules but just gotta adapt to it and not make a big deal out of it. There's no bias possible as the rules were written, you could've had the same luck and you wouldn't be complaining on forums about it, same way you don't need to pretend you had a huge climb or anything like that because for this week what affected the match ups were the no-rematching condition and overall match up rules, you had the same points than other teams like GWB and GP.

You're hosting a great tournament even if the match ups and the rules weren't optimal, hope it meets a good end and this doesn't stop you hosting more events in the future.

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I think most alternatives have been tried in teh past and all have their advantages and disadvanatges. Do you have a suggestion for what would be better? The more rematches are limited the more we get unequal matches.

Personally I think Bucholz is not helping, when Harman introduced Bucholz (WNL5) to Warband we had not fully appreciated that it was designed for a single player game where teh match conditions do not vary. It is not very suited to Warband where the team composition and match conditions (map and factions) vary a lot. Team dropouts cause a big distortion also.

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Without a situation where we meet a league where everyone meets every single team or a league long enough to make it balanced, stuff like this will happen. My suggestion is to run Group stages, which is easier to manage and more balanced(with propper seedment), you can even have larger groups with more spots qualifying.
If you wanna continue with league system, rework the rematching rule, forcing it so that 2 teams cant face eachother in at least 2 more weeks(besides the same week they play so 3 in total), and having a seeded 1st week where top seeded ones face bottom seeded ones. That way you secure that teams who have a rematch it will be in a large gap of time during the ladder stage and that it will happen twice at max. However I am quite sure that more 'unfair' match ups would come the moment that any top team draws or losses a match because the system with only 7 weeks is really unstable and lacks time to work properly, perhaps editing lightly the match up rules could improve the match ups a bit anyway.

About Bucholz overall, I don't really like it having an impact on the placement on the teams in the overall league positions, and I think it would become really tilting at some point if you are behind the ladder stage of someone you won against(maybe won even twice), I think the placement criteria would be (1) Points (2) Straight result vs whoever you have equal points (3)Bucholz, Round difference or whatever you want.

Match Les Cordones Bleus vs Cheshire Cats Clan will take place Saturday January 6th, 19:30 GMT

Charlini said:

...About Bucholz overall, I don't really like it having an impact on the placement on the teams in the overall league positions, and I think it would become really tilting at some point if you are behind the ladder stage of someone you won against(maybe won even twice), I think the placement criteria would be (1) Points (2) Straight result vs whoever you have equal points (3)Bucholz, Round difference or whatever you want.

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That's the biggest downside of Buchholz score system. It simply breaks placement of the teams with the same amount of points from W/D/L...

What did bucholz points contribute to the tournament anyway? Isn't it there as a sign that a team deserves its placement amongst the others with same points? I am not complaining about playing vs good teams actually that's the fun part of playing this game if you ask me. However, with this week it will be 4 of the 6 teams that we played against were "top teams" already. There are teams with the same match wins and with lower Bucholz points that haven't even played more than once vs "top teams". But with that only thing they are missing is being on lower spot amongst the teams with same points which is not much of a thing anyway.

DoF vs MoB will be on Sunday at 19:30 GMT

Guy Fawkes said:

What did bucholz points contribute to the tournament anyway? Isn't it there as a sign that a team deserves its placement amongst the others with same points? I am not complaining about playing vs good teams actually that's the fun part of playing this game if you ask me. However, with this week it will be 4 of the 6 teams that we played against were "top teams" already. There are teams with the same match wins and with lower Bucholz points that haven't even played more than once vs "top teams". But with that only thing they are missing is being on lower spot amongst the teams with same points which is not much of a thing anyway.

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The Buchholz is there because with fixtures being automatic there should be some "reward" for playing better teams (teams that do well in the tournament). If you use RD for example, you benefit from playing worse teams as you gain more rounds, whereas a team with a hard fought victory 9-7 suffers for it. By rewarding instead of punishing for playing good teams it's supposed to balance out later in the league - that's why for example, when matching teams the bottom team is matched with the top, the team that has faced the tougher opponents gets a slightly easier match up. AE for example really should have played the top of their points but the odd number below us has always meant a lower team has been matched with us, hence our very low Buchholz score. Maybe that could be tweaked as it seems to benefit the lower member of the points more than intended.

Charlini said:

My suggestion is to run Group stages, which is easier to manage and more balanced(with propper seedment), you can even have larger groups with more spots qualifying.

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Part of the reason we ran this tournament was to get away from these and I still think this is better. Seeded groups then knockouts leads to 50% of teams just being fodder for better teams to smash then move onto the "real" part of the tournament. This may not have been perfect, but at least midtier to lowertier teams have had some decent matches and they have stuff to play for.

edit: just to note I'm not being defensive or anything, these are good suggestions from everyone. I just wish we'd have all this out before tournaments, not after.

Win against Low Team
Loose against Top Team

Repeat for 7 Fixtures
Story of my tournament experience completed.

Can we call it “Ping Pong System“ from now on?

This sort of tournament rules is good if tournament is played during long time, not in 7 matches, that's all

bomba12131 said:

Win against Low Team
Loose against Top Team

Repeat for 7 Fixtures
Story of my tournament experience completed.

Can we call it “Ping Pong System“ from now on?

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We actually just played two good teams in a row.

Buholtz is better than rounds. If you want to improve current system:
1. No rematches - if you play a rematch you get punished with BP. If Reunited wins this round they will deny themselves 9 BP. If they would play different teams thay could still earn 6 points from other teams.
2. Seed from top to bottom - When you seed from bottom, there are higher chances of favouring teams who drew, because they are matched with lower teams all the time.
3. Maybe 2 points for a win is not a bad idea? If I'm not mistaken 3 points for win were introduced to favour offensive teams, because they are nicer to watch. In warband noone really plays for a draw and you can't really play defensively and hope for a draw.

I think most ppl overeact about current system. The only 100% fair system would be round-robin where you would play all the '****' teams anyway. Fix above for the next tournament and it almost as good.

re: 1 we actually count each rematch separately for the BHS, so even if you play a team 3 times you get their points 3x. Seeding from top to bottom might fix it though you're correct.

OurGloriousLeader said:

re: 1 we actually count each rematch separately for the BHS, so even if you play a team 3 times you get their points 3x. Seeding from top to bottom might fix it though you're correct.

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Thats his point, you will get 9 BHS less if you win, because 3x3= 9, quick maths.

Ah gotcha. That's true I guess, although the loss isn't really 9 since you'd be looking to win anyway, losing 3 BHS, and other opponents wouldn't always win their matches, so it's somewhere between 0-6. It's true rematches are the worst option which I hadn't considered.

BB vs Trinity will be on Sunday, 19 GMT
07.01.18

Space Khergits vs. LL, Sunday 19.30 GMT.

Saturday, 06.01.18, 19:30 GMT



Server: WNL_CCC_FR_1
IDs: https://i.imgur.com/zSZijK8.jpg

Saturday, 06.01.18, 20:30 GMT



Server: WNL_TW_NL_2
IDs: https://i.imgur.com/ecslkVi.jpg

GWB vs FT will have place Sunday 20.30 gmt