That doesn't change the situation whatsoever, so it doesn't make a difference at this particular moment. UK would then go through 1st based on Rounds Won.
[NC2014] Suggestions
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Not saying it wasn't, was more making it specific to this particular case.
Yeah, I couldn't see it in the rules either.Bauglir said:
One admin is not enough to make this decision in my opinion, that's what we've learned from the ECS. If I'm not mistaken it was 5 admins at the start, two left, one is away and the 4th one is biased in this case. Don't know, in my opinion it would have been better to back this one up with some other opinions, I mean there are enough reasonable players in this community. Especially because this decision might, most likely, directly influence the outcome of this tournament if I take a look at the KO Bracket.
Also don't think that it is the best solution to count a match as 8-8 but awarding one team with 3 points as some others already pointed out, doesn't really make sense. In my opinion, you should either let every round count, also the tie breaker rounds, or you should count the match as draw.
Also don't think that it is the best solution to count a match as 8-8 but awarding one team with 3 points as some others already pointed out, doesn't really make sense. In my opinion, you should either let every round count, also the tie breaker rounds, or you should count the match as draw.
Yea,agree that there isn't such rule.So what the problem?UK was 1st place and Russia win team from first place then Russia should be 1st.Bauglir said:
Dreaon
Knight at Arms
Captain Lust said:
Oh really, there isn't such a rule, is there?
It could also be decisive
1. Points
2. Result of the direct encounter (if two teams have the same amount of points)
3. Rounds won in total (if two teams have the same amount of points AND played a draw with each other)
What would be wrong with that?
So, either way, it's ****ed up now. Now, Russia got a disadvantage, the other way, it would be the same for UK.
Maybe, the fairest thing would even be, to decide it by fortune who gets the first place.
Anyway, for the future I suggest you to make clear rules and to think ahead about some possibilities. It should be decided beforehand, what happens if two teams got the same amount of points and how to deal with those tiebreakers (which aren't really needed in the end)
We have one unhappy team now I think and this occured due to the lack of clear rules.
yolka
Banned
Nobody cares. Some american decided that UK takes first place. When captain of russian team and a lot of respected members of our community pointed out that its not fair and gave another option they were simply totally ignored. Because there are no arguments from admin's side to give. Really pathetic behaviour. Sad that russians let **** on them. And then some guys whine " why ae holds every tourney". Because when other people are in charge **** like this happens(take another example-last nations 5aside with our folms admin).Dreaon said:
Everyone understands that what was done isnt right but admins wont do **** about it because they simply dont give a **** about participants. These participants dont even deserve the answer and all other suggestions from respected members have to be ignored even though they are much more logical. Shame on you.
Mr.X
yolka said:
Russia earned a win of that match. If they didn't earn that win, they would not have made it into the knockout stage in the first place. I see no reason for them to be causing such an upstart.
Noone's opinion was ignored. And there were just as many "respected members of the community" on both sides of the argument. And the reasoning was given in the Announcements thread when it was announced. So don't give me that "no argument by the admins" bull****.
My personal experience with the admins has been less of "admins don't give a **** about the players" and more "players do everything they can to **** with us and **** all over us until we get tired of doing things for the community that couldn't give more ****s than a bird's carcass." Do you guys seriously think that the admins don't care about you? Actually, **** that, do you seriously think that Folms doesn't care about you?? He put a ****load of work into this tournament despite having multiple, and dare I say much more important, real life issues going on at the time. And the only thing he ever gets back is people complaining about how they would do a much better job than him and how the tournament's **** and this server's bad and this players being mean and stupid ass **** like that.
This community is small. Any competition we get comes from each other. There are no taleworlds hosted tournaments. There's nothing really on the line. Noone plays warband professionally. People put this **** together in their spare time. It's absolutely appalling how little respect is given considering the amount of work that's done.
Say all you want about how I'm just some ****ty american. Pretend I don't reschedule all of my weekends around Nations Cup matches just so some ****ty ass european kid doesn't log on as admin and ban everyone during a match. That's all fine. But don't start **** about Folms.
yolka
Banned
[/quote]
Noone's opinion was ignored. And there were just as many "respected members of the community" on both sides of the argument. And the reasoning was given in the Announcements thread when it was announced. So don't give me that "no argument by the admins" bull****.
[/quote]
ok
"I don't understand how match can end with 8:8 and 1 team wins. If we look at any sport(hockey, football..) the team that wins the tiebraker will get an extra point to make them win. This would make the score 9:8 and the team with 9 will win.
So I suggest adding 1 point to the winning team only to make it logical." -Cybran(member of CZE)
"
Of course, but I doubt it's fair for Russia right now. This wasn't in rules before match was played, so it's unfair, if it affects any matches (mainly RUS vs. UK) in past.
Quote from: Cybran on March 02, 2014, 07:58:08 PM
So I suggest adding 1 point to the winning team only to make it logical." -Marek(member of CZE)
"
I totally agree with this. There has to be a winner, and it makes no sense that Russia won with score 8:8. For example in ice hockey shootout game, if the score is 4-4 before shootout game and other team makes 3 goals in it and other one 2. The score in the end is 5-4 to the one who won the shootout game." -Bauglir(member of FIN)
"+1
And if that is not going to happen, at least share the points received from a tie-braker game so that the winning team gets two points and the losing team gets one point. Imo its quite unfair for the losing team that they get no points if they lose in a tie-breaker..." -Dopey(member of FIN)
"Also don't think that it is the best solution to count a match as 8-8 but awarding one team with 3 points as some others already pointed out, doesn't really make sense. In my opinion, you should either let every round count, also the tie breaker rounds, or you should count the match as draw. " -Scar(referee)
"I agree that there needs to be some clarification on this subject, but there most likely won't be any changes in this particular case. There is no rule stating that tiebreaker rounds count towards the total amount of rounds in the end summation. There have been previous situations with tiebreakers and in all of those cases, the tiebreaker has been added into the final score count." -Watly(admin in past)
And last post of Dreaon is also stating that your decision is bad.(member of GER)
None of them can be biased, its obvious, they are neutral and see the situation objectivly.
Now. Please, tell me whats wrong with you? Name me at least ONE ****ing guy who said that what you did is good decision. All your imaginary guys on "BOTH" sides of this arguement. The only guys who approved your decision were from UK NC team, so please dont lie. There was not a signle guy who said that you were right. But you dont give a ****, you ignored all these posts and did as you wanted to, then you answered only to mine, there were no arguments from you at all before my post. Its even funny now.
About folms i dont want to talk since he isnt our topic, but his decision in nations-5-a-side's semis has truly shown what he is as admin.
So, can anyone explain, why this guy's voice counts more than all others? Simply because he volountereed as admin?
Noone's opinion was ignored. And there were just as many "respected members of the community" on both sides of the argument. And the reasoning was given in the Announcements thread when it was announced. So don't give me that "no argument by the admins" bull****.
[/quote]
ok
"I don't understand how match can end with 8:8 and 1 team wins. If we look at any sport(hockey, football..) the team that wins the tiebraker will get an extra point to make them win. This would make the score 9:8 and the team with 9 will win.
So I suggest adding 1 point to the winning team only to make it logical." -Cybran(member of CZE)
"
Of course, but I doubt it's fair for Russia right now. This wasn't in rules before match was played, so it's unfair, if it affects any matches (mainly RUS vs. UK) in past.
Quote from: Cybran on March 02, 2014, 07:58:08 PM
So I suggest adding 1 point to the winning team only to make it logical." -Marek(member of CZE)
"
I totally agree with this. There has to be a winner, and it makes no sense that Russia won with score 8:8. For example in ice hockey shootout game, if the score is 4-4 before shootout game and other team makes 3 goals in it and other one 2. The score in the end is 5-4 to the one who won the shootout game." -Bauglir(member of FIN)
"+1
And if that is not going to happen, at least share the points received from a tie-braker game so that the winning team gets two points and the losing team gets one point. Imo its quite unfair for the losing team that they get no points if they lose in a tie-breaker..." -Dopey(member of FIN)
"Also don't think that it is the best solution to count a match as 8-8 but awarding one team with 3 points as some others already pointed out, doesn't really make sense. In my opinion, you should either let every round count, also the tie breaker rounds, or you should count the match as draw. " -Scar(referee)
"I agree that there needs to be some clarification on this subject, but there most likely won't be any changes in this particular case. There is no rule stating that tiebreaker rounds count towards the total amount of rounds in the end summation. There have been previous situations with tiebreakers and in all of those cases, the tiebreaker has been added into the final score count." -Watly(admin in past)
And last post of Dreaon is also stating that your decision is bad.(member of GER)
None of them can be biased, its obvious, they are neutral and see the situation objectivly.
Now. Please, tell me whats wrong with you? Name me at least ONE ****ing guy who said that what you did is good decision. All your imaginary guys on "BOTH" sides of this arguement. The only guys who approved your decision were from UK NC team, so please dont lie. There was not a signle guy who said that you were right. But you dont give a ****, you ignored all these posts and did as you wanted to, then you answered only to mine, there were no arguments from you at all before my post. Its even funny now.
About folms i dont want to talk since he isnt our topic, but his decision in nations-5-a-side's semis has truly shown what he is as admin.
So, can anyone explain, why this guy's voice counts more than all others? Simply because he volountereed as admin?
Mr.X
I'll respond this time, but if you want me to keep responding you seriously need to learn to use the quote function.
You quoted a bunch of people disagreeing with the decision. And no, I didn't individually respond to each person, I thought it was unnecessary considering none of them brought up things I hadn't already considered when I made the decision. Also almost all of them are arguing with incorrect information. Many of those quotes are working under the assumption that winning did not do anything for Russia in terms of group placement and standings, even though the only reason they made it to the knockout stages is because they took the win in a tiebreaker. Had they lost in the tiebreaker, they would have been in third in their group. And I don't think you'd really want admins who change their decisions every time someone complains on TW anyway.
I'll make the individual responses to all of those quotes right now. Please note the formatting.
Sucks that this guy doesn't understand it, but that's how it happens. The rounds played were 8-8, but the win goes to the team that won in overtime. As explained in the announcement thread when the decision is made, it is unfair to count rounds from tiebreakers and then compare the round differential with matches that did not have tiebreakers, as an unequal number of rounds will have been played.
The winning team got a win. #logic
Again, this was addressed in the announcement, but all the matches in the past were changed to fit the new rule, and all the possible effects of that change were posted.
Again, lack of understanding != bad rule. You can't really compare Warband to other sports, but if you really want to talk about hockey, the seeding is far more complicated than that. In hockey, "round difference" (number of goals) is one of the last things to be considered. I'm fairly sure they even check regulation history before it. There was a winner, and that winner got the win. That winner also only won 8 rounds in the standard playing time. They can no longer earn rounds after the first 2 maps because that would be unfair considering how infrequently tie-breakers are played and how some teams play them more than others (this was all explained in the announcement, btw).
Once again, the winning team got a win, and neither team got a change to their round differential.
This one is a bit more reasonable. At least he somewhat understands the ruling. Unfortunately counting the matches as draws was no longer an option and, as I've explained at least twice in this post, counting tie-breaker rounds is unfair.
The only thing he argued here was that there needed to be clarification. I agreed. That's why I clarified it. In the announcements thread.
And yet, they're all more biased than I am, considering they're all european and much more likely to interact with the people involved on a daily basis.
I fall in love too quickly and am underweight due to a minor eating disorder.
I would respond, but you kinda contradicted yourself about a sentence later:
I value their opinions just as I valued all those people you posted about, just as I valued the opinions from the Russain team captain and members.
Only if you promise to fix your quotes
Awks, you just said there was a whole team of them.
I didn't think it was really important for me to answer everyone's post, especially all the one's that weren't even really understanding the situation.
Not really. I don't take this **** as a joke.
Well that was cryptic as ****.
I don't think it was because I volunteered as admin, but more because I was accepted as an admin and have been working as an admin for the duration of the tournament.
Also, I've never deleted a post. Sorry.
You quoted a bunch of people disagreeing with the decision. And no, I didn't individually respond to each person, I thought it was unnecessary considering none of them brought up things I hadn't already considered when I made the decision. Also almost all of them are arguing with incorrect information. Many of those quotes are working under the assumption that winning did not do anything for Russia in terms of group placement and standings, even though the only reason they made it to the knockout stages is because they took the win in a tiebreaker. Had they lost in the tiebreaker, they would have been in third in their group. And I don't think you'd really want admins who change their decisions every time someone complains on TW anyway.
I'll make the individual responses to all of those quotes right now. Please note the formatting.
yolka said:
Sucks that this guy doesn't understand it, but that's how it happens. The rounds played were 8-8, but the win goes to the team that won in overtime. As explained in the announcement thread when the decision is made, it is unfair to count rounds from tiebreakers and then compare the round differential with matches that did not have tiebreakers, as an unequal number of rounds will have been played.
yolka said:
The winning team got a win. #logic
yolka said:
Again, this was addressed in the announcement, but all the matches in the past were changed to fit the new rule, and all the possible effects of that change were posted.
yolka said:
Again, lack of understanding != bad rule. You can't really compare Warband to other sports, but if you really want to talk about hockey, the seeding is far more complicated than that. In hockey, "round difference" (number of goals) is one of the last things to be considered. I'm fairly sure they even check regulation history before it. There was a winner, and that winner got the win. That winner also only won 8 rounds in the standard playing time. They can no longer earn rounds after the first 2 maps because that would be unfair considering how infrequently tie-breakers are played and how some teams play them more than others (this was all explained in the announcement, btw).
yolka said:
Once again, the winning team got a win, and neither team got a change to their round differential.
yolka said:
This one is a bit more reasonable. At least he somewhat understands the ruling. Unfortunately counting the matches as draws was no longer an option and, as I've explained at least twice in this post, counting tie-breaker rounds is unfair.
yolka said:
The only thing he argued here was that there needed to be clarification. I agreed. That's why I clarified it. In the announcements thread.
yolka said:
And yet, they're all more biased than I am, considering they're all european and much more likely to interact with the people involved on a daily basis.
yolka said:
I fall in love too quickly and am underweight due to a minor eating disorder.
yolka said:
I would respond, but you kinda contradicted yourself about a sentence later:
yolka said:
I value their opinions just as I valued all those people you posted about, just as I valued the opinions from the Russain team captain and members.
yolka said:
Only if you promise to fix your quotes
yolka said:
Awks, you just said there was a whole team of them.
yolka said:
I didn't think it was really important for me to answer everyone's post, especially all the one's that weren't even really understanding the situation.
yolka said:
Not really. I don't take this **** as a joke.
yolka said:
Well that was cryptic as ****.
yolka said:
I don't think it was because I volunteered as admin, but more because I was accepted as an admin and have been working as an admin for the duration of the tournament.
Also, I've never deleted a post. Sorry.
Mr.X
Maximka said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure what you're saying :/
I admit I don't understand.
Why would 9:8 score be unfair (1 point added to the team who won tiebreaker)? You said because unequal rounds was played, but I don't understand how that would be unfair. Draw rounds create that 1 point difference as well, only subrtacted instead being added.
Why would 9:8 score be unfair (1 point added to the team who won tiebreaker)? You said because unequal rounds was played, but I don't understand how that would be unfair. Draw rounds create that 1 point difference as well, only subrtacted instead being added.
Mr.X
Alene said:
Drawn rounds are played within the standard 16 rounds. Tie-breaker rounds are extra and many teams don't play them. Some teams use the home/away system often which is more likely to include tie-breakers. It's unfair to be counting rounds pass the initial 16 because it gives some teams more of a chance to increase their round differential, can be abused to the point of teams forcing draws in order to get a larger round differential than would be possible in the normal 16 rounds, and I don't see how we can reasonably measure teams by a round differential when some teams have played more rounds than others.
