Yet another appeal for DualWielding

[deathknight1728]

I know by now everyone has probably heard or seen this one coming, but hear me out. Mount and Blade and Mount and Blade Warband Expansion are both great games which really put most other action rpgs to shame due to their realistics. You get hit in the head or attacked with the right amount of force and its over. But if taleworlds really wants to be realistic, then there is an avenue that is not been tried out at least.

Dual-wielding is a very tricky style of fighting of using two weapons that most cannot master due to not having enough physical agility. But when used in the right hands, it can be a very strong style and extremely defensive as well due to two weapon blocks.

Now how does this fit into realistics and history. It does. There were many rogues and mercenaries that used this style of fighting and im sure there were some in the armies that used it too. Hell even the famous Lancelot from the knights of the roundtable used it to deadly affect. That shows that this is a style of fighting and in a game like mount and blade, it should be done. The creators can do it, they just are still working on a way to implement it without it being too powerful.

I have a way of making it work. When wielding two weapons you would get a ratio that dont get in how damage is dealt. When you click to attack the damage done will be by both the weapons max damage divided by 2. So lets say you have a dagger-20, and a short sword-24. It would come out to be 22 damage max. First thing you will say is this sucks. Not quite. Since there are two weapons you use you get more speed factor. And by now everyone knows that speed is king in determining damage in mount and blade. You will also get the ability to block any attack that is facing you except of course ranged attacks like arrows and bolts. Does this make this style better than sword/shield, absolutely not. Sword and shield will still always be a fun and easily masterable style to use and can block arrows. This style will mostly just be for the advanced players who want to be unique and have fun in a way that wasnt used before.

I dont think this build would require a skill, just a mastery and a lot of agility points due to speed. If it did need a skill, i dont know what it would entail. I only hope they do it the right way and have to be when you click, both weapons attack, whichever hits deals the damage regardless of which one hits. If they do this that way it would give fans another way of playing the game. I dont know which side would use this, but that is open for discussion.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any ideas?

 

[McBeverage]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,1223.0.html

^_^

 

[Azrooh]

What dual wielding boils down to is an americanized fantasy feature that was never really used historically. It's not worth the time nor effort of figuring out how it would work, putting it in, and balancing it.

 

[MatthaisRagnarsson]

There were many rogues and mercenaries that used this style of fighting and im sure there were some in the armies that used it too. 

"Hell even the famous Lancelot from the knights of the roundtable used it to deadly affect."

Prove it.

 

[Mr.X]

What dual wielding boils down to is an americanized fantasy feature that was never really used historically. It's not worth the time nor effort of figuring out how it would work, putting it in, and balancing it.

Way to bash america and completely contradict what the OP said about history all in one sentence!

But i have to agree with you on the second part. How would it be implemented? Would you use a different attack for each arm? In which case, how do you split that up on a keyboard? Or will you just be using 1 button? In which case theres nothing added other than new animations really.

 

[deathknight1728]

Prove it. I could say that for everything that happens in this world on a daily basis. Did you drink coffee on monday. Yeah i did. Oh really, prove it.

Nobody really knows what happened back then. We just have an idea of what happened. Who can truly say that some soldiers used two daggers, two swords, whatever. I cant prove you wrong, but neither can u with me.

I already said how it would be implemented. Both your left and right weapons will swing at the same time when you're wielding two weapons. I honestly dont know why everyone is saying its so hard to implement. Thats the coward's words through and through.

 

[Rephikul]

Nobody really knows what happened back then.

There are stuff left behind from the people, mainly drawing, painting, buncha skellies and weapons on which analysises could be done. It's quite similar to how they proved dinosaurs exist. It might be impossible for him to prove that he drank coffee on monday if he cleaned the mug. He could easily prove it if he didnt. We found stuff left from those eras, it's not like they hid them all !!

 

[Bobsama]

Nobody really knows what happened back then.

There are stuff left behind from the people, mainly drawing, painting, buncha skellies and weapons on which analysises could be done. It's quite similar to how they proved dinosaurs exist. It might be impossible for him to prove that he drank coffee on monday if he cleaned the mug. He could easily prove it if he didnt. We found stuff left from those eras, it's not like they hid them all !!

The real issue is how biased the accounts were. We learned more about what people ate hundreds of years ago by analyzing their trash pits, fire pits, and dung than we did from the literature of the day. Further, we knew what they ACTUALLY ate and not just the current name.

Anyways, dual-wielding only really works for small weapons. Tonfas and Sais, both prominent in Okinawan martial arts, are usually dual-wielded and provide a sufficient platform to block, catch, and possibly break or otherwise disarm a blade. Further, they are more effective when inside the reach of a sword. One interesting series that mixes fact and fiction would be Rurouni Kenshin. While the overall techniques are exaggerated and some simply impossible, many others are presented in a more accurate way than other series. Costumes were not always just for show--some of them were functional or presented an illusion that even a knowledgeable opponent would have a tough time dealing with.

 

[Schemer]

I'd be fine with implemented dual wielding of shortswords and daggers, but dual wielding longswords is much too unrealistic. I'd say that if it were implemented, it should be based on weapon weight, so you can't do things like using two longswords at once.

 

[samoht]

I'd be fine with implemented dual wielding of shortswords and daggers, but dual wielding longswords is much too unrealistic. I'd say that if it were implemented, it should be based on weapon weight, so you can't do things like using two longswords at once.

Speak for yourself, knave.  As I type this, I am currently wielding two long swords.

I'm typing with my feet.

 

[Lord Rust]

During the renessaince Rapier and Dagger fighting was very popular, though mainly for small urban skirmishes or duelling, it has never to my knowledge been used as an effective mode of military combat.

Also, Lancelot never lived, oh i'm sure the myth might VERY losely be based on someone, but he didn't dual wield longswords and rescue maidens, go research the song of Roland for an example.

To conclude, Lancelot does not count as a historic source and this *is* an americanized fantasy of the middle ages.

 

[Velax]

If the five-year-old, 5000+ post thread in the Suggestion Forum hasn't resulted in anything, I somehow doubt this thread in the wrong forum will.

 

[Lord Rust]

If the five-year-old, 5000+ post thread in the Suggestion Forum hasn't resulted in anything, I somehow doubt this thread in the wrong forum will.

But this thread has established that known medieval knight and ladies man, Lancelot used dual wielding, thus making it 100% historically accurate and so forcing Taleworlds to implement that and chain mail bikinis.

It's a triump for historic research gentlemen.

 

[Mr.X]

Well sorry I missed the first time you explained implemation.
In that case, it doesn't add to the gameplay at all. Its not like you have to keep track of both hands, it would just be adding a new weapon and new animations. Seems pointless really, and it would result in some loss of respect for TW in my eyes(and most likely many others).

 

[Swadius 2.0]

During the renessaince Rapier and Dagger fighting was very popular, though mainly for small urban skirmishes or duelling, it has never to my knowledge been used as an effective mode of military combat.

Yep.
One very big difference to note is the presence of armor. You'd be surprised how effective even a thick over coat is. So much so that during the first world war, special orders had to be given to hand to hand weapon manufacturers that their bayonets and trench knives need to be able to punch through the average trench coat without breaking. I think you can imagine what this says for actual armor made for protection against hand to hand weapons.
You had the same problem during the renaissance, the thick coats they chose to take off was usually used as a makeshift shield in the other hand. It's just not practical to do if you had other more lethal weapons at hand. The average short sword or spear is leagues ahead of a rapiers and daggers when it comes to lethality.

 

[pampl]

You could try the Star Wars Conquest mod, it has dual wielding sort of like your implementation.

 

[Dayve]

Before I opened this thread I knew what to expect. One person asking for dual-wield ability after playing as a rogue or a DPS warrior in WoW or LotRo or AoC, the next person telling them it isn't historical, then following posts full of people citing mostly opinions, but one or two instances in a 6,000 year history where dual wielding was used, and arguing that therefore it was historical and entirely valid.

Well, it's not, and since I spent all my teenage years from the age of about 12 reading history of every era, even forsaking going out with friends to sit at home and read, I'm fairly sure I would know, as I've become fully educated on every major war, every major empire, every major battle, every famous skirmish, and every tactic used in or by all of the previous, and after 10+ years of dedicating as much of my spare time as is humanly possible reading about these things, and having read at least 1 book every week for that 10 years, plus countless, countless hours trawling the internet for such things for the same amount of years, I think that I should by now know more, if not then just as much, than just about anybody else in the world, about the historical use of dual wielding, and I can tell you that I have never heard of it being done in actual battle, not once. Therefore, this idea is mod material at best, and ought not to be implemented into a medieval battle sim. Which is really what this is, despite the historically inaccurate armours for the date which are in native, which I removed with modding. 

 

[CriticallyAshamed]

Now I'm just saiyan guiz... I think we should implement dragons because they are historically accurate because Saint George (who was totally real and shiz) killed one. Oh and we need Dual Claw/glove things like Wolverine. And Samurai Ninja Pirates who use pistols!

Dual wielding is a giant pain in the arse. Do you know how damn heavy those weapons are? Well yes you do because they tell you the stats. But do you realise how quickly running around like a dervish swinging with both hands at once would tire you out? Besides, archers would troll you so hard and then you'd whinge about how they need to be nerfed or you need to be able to deflect the damn arrows with the secondary weapon.

 

[Night Ninja]

Oh lordy. Those weapons aren't very heavy at all. A single handed sword weighs 3 pounds, TOPS, and the mass is distributed in such a way that it's very easy and pleasant to handle.

Dual-wielding in the classic sense is a fundamentally bull**** idea that only works in a very few circumstances in the context of the medieval and Renaissance periods. For example, rapier and companion weapon is an accepted combination because it's appeared in multiple treatises that deal with the use of weapons, but you need to bear in mind that it's pretty much a 'civilian' style that requires a very specific weapon. It's a weapon where the main focus is the thrust (though the cut was used if an opportunity presented itself), and it's comparatively easy to deflect a thrust.

To argue about dual-wielding, it needs to be defined properly, and part of the problem is where you draw the lines (no Loki's wager yet ). We're attempting to impose very rigid definitions on an art that is fundamentally organic and eludes strict classification. If you consider a buckler or a shield to be dual-wielding, it probably does work, but don't be surprised when people argue with you about that. Personally, I define it as the use of two offensive weapons, and it's worked moderately well so far.

Also, here's a pre-emptive '**** you' to any weeaboo git that wants to bring up Musashi. Go read his goddamn book again.

 

[Velax]

General answer to topic and not to anyone in particular:

For me, personally, it would ruin the immersion to see some idiot running at me with two weapons. The AI can barely use one properly, how could we possibly expect it to use two, and in MP it would just result in more constant crying about unbalanced crap. Not to mention running around without a shield is usually suicide anyway.

In almost every medieval-type clone out there you can dual wield. If it's that important to you, play one of those.