What are you playing right now?

[Mad Vader]

it's definitely a weird level of hostility, but then again it is madvader.

I was definitely not hostile to anyone here, unlike some people who should know better. If you have nothing to add, kindly **** off.

Wait a second....what makes you think they weren't interested in player needs? You're assuming ill-intent and there's absolutely no need or evidence to do so. Tarn mentioned wanting to do an interface overall back in 2010 and even before that, but stated it was his "weakness" in code/design, and so he wanted to focus on adding new content instead. I would hardly call the lack of time and money, or skill, being the same as being uninterested.

That must be the weakest excuse ever. Modders were offering doing it for them. But no. UI is no fun, so you'll get nothing.
You don't refuse to do something the majority of players justifiably need, just because you don't feel like it.
That's no ill intent that you are trying to construe, but, to repeat myself, blatant disregard of player needs which I called sociopathic.

But once you NEED the players to buy the game, of course you work mostly on the UI. Because now you need the money! It's pathetic.

Sentimental? Honestly, this is just about Dwarf Fortress not being your cup of tea, rather than it actually being "unfun". And Rimworld has one thing going for it, which now DF has--interface/graphics. The gameplay honestly isn't as impressive as you're making it out to be and most of what people hype about the game directly comes from mods rather than vanilla....

I assume Rimworld is not the cup of tea of zealous DF fans, because it makes obvious the many faults of DF and that's mostly design mistakes, and not just a lack of graphic interface as you are trying to claim. If you can't see the genius of Rimworld's design, I'm not going to try to convince you. Let's just say that its Steam rating is 98% and that means you are underestimating the game for some reason.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Biggest case of "failed to git gud" I've seen in centuries.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I was definitely not hostile to anyone here

making weird remarks about people's neurodivergence and calling them sociopaths over a video game you don't like certainly qualifies. i'd advise not doing that. you know, generally.

Let's just say that its Steam rating is 98% and that means you are underestimating the game for some reason

and dwarf fortress is currently at 97%. perhaps you are underestimating the game for some reason?

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

it's definitely a weird level of hostility, but then again it is madvader.

Something something, conversational equivalent of ramming?

Anyhow, Rimworld good, Dwarf Fortress also probably very good in its own specific way,* that rant was downright self-indulgent, you can do both.
*Will check sometime later, if/when it, or another element of my wishlist gets discounted.

That said I got gifted Valheim a while ago, and turns out this **** is pretty fun on a server.

 

[Ser Jon]

That must be the weakest excuse ever. Modders were offering doing it for them. But no. UI is no fun, so you'll get nothing.
You don't refuse to do something the majority of players justifiably need, just because you don't feel like it.
That's no ill intent that you are trying to construe, but, to repeat myself, blatant disregard of player needs which I called sociopathic.

But once you NEED the players to buy the game, of course you work mostly on the UI. Because now you need the money! It's pathetic.


I assume Rimworld is not the cup of tea of zealous DF fans, because it makes obvious the many faults of DF and that's mostly design mistakes, and not just a lack of graphic interface as you are trying to claim. If you can't see the genius of Rimworld's design, I'm not going to try to convince you. Let's just say that its Steam rating is 98% and that means you are underestimating the game for some reason.

It's not an excuse, it's the truth. Tarn's not very good at coding and actual design. He says it himself all of the time, and some of the messy coding or mods by modders prove that. So whatever modders can do is actually pretty irrelevant, because of that context and the fact that this game was released as a passion project for free. And again...it has nothing to do with not "feeling" like it. It took teaming up with Kitfox Games to get this UI and mouse support content to come through, and Mayday to make the tile set pack. Because he knows his limitations.

There's nothing pathetic about it. He worked on a passion project for free for two decades and now has intense medical bills to pay and is sick, so he thought to get the support needed (Kitfox) to provide those features to release it, hitting many birds with one stone. What sort of axe do you have to grind with Tarn and his brother? Or is this because you're a fan of Rimworld? lol

Your assumption is comically off. Rimworld is populated by thousands of Dwarf Fortress fans, myself included. I think Rimworld is a ton of fun, too, I just don't see how any sane person can think they are the same thing. I like RW for what it is, and it isn't because it's like Dwarf Fortress, it's actually because it's the opposite. It's a far simpler colony sim, and that's perfectly fine. They share one thing only and it is the genre.

And if there was something more than interface in its lacking, 20k people wouldn't be playing it, nor would it have been famously played for two decades if it was unfun or missing something vital. You're just mistaken in the fact that YOU need a graphical interface etc as it being a strict necessity that makes a game fun/great.

That said I got gifted Valheim a while ago, and turns out this **** is pretty fun on a server.

Glad you're enjoying it, Valheim is great!

 

[Mad Vader]

Incompetence is an interesting and hilarious defense, but you would expect more from a maths PhD that writes programs since his childhood. If he wanted to, he would have learned what he must, to put together a functional UI. He simply didn't want to. There are no excuses.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I don't even care about his personal life struggles. If I had a tortured childhood and drew a ****ty stick figure, I wouldn't expect the latter to rate alongside a J. M. W. Turner due to the former. An extreme example but I judge based on the product in front of me in almost all situations.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

happily, the dorf fort steam release beat its two months sales projection (based on wishlists and other factors) in less than 24 hours.

An extreme example but I judge based on the product in front of me in almost all situations.

reviews remain overwhelmingly positive, both by users and by media. clearly they judged the product in front of them and said "yea, it's good".

Anyhow, Rimworld good, Dwarf Fortress also probably very good in its own specific way,* that rant was downright self-indulgent, you can do both.

oh, absolutely. rimworld is fine. i prefer df but that's just taste, they're both good.

 

[Ser Jon]

happily, the dorf fort steam release beat its two months sales projection (based on wishlists and other factors) in less than 24 hours.


reviews remain overwhelmingly positive, both by users and by media. clearly they judged the product in front of them and said "yea, it's good".


oh, absolutely. rimworld is fine. i prefer df but that's just taste, they're both good.

It's great news for them, not just so they can pay the medical bills, but it'll also mean it might make it easier for them to concentrate more on Dwarf Fortress.

And agreed. Both are good, they just offer different things.

Incompetence is an interesting and hilarious defense, but you would expect more from a maths PhD that writes programs since his childhood. If he wanted to, he would have learned what he must, to put together a functional UI. He simply didn't want to. There are no excuses.

You leave no room except for ill-intent and you seem hell bent on it, so okay I guess?

 

[Mad Vader]

Let's see what happens with the DF sales and ratings when the uncritical superfans all buy it and regular players test it. Rimworld's ratings are all the more impressive because they are spread over time and given by all kinds of people. It had and stood its test of time.

You leave no room except for ill-intent and you seem hell bent on it, so okay I guess?

I explained it to you twice already, this is just dishonesty.

 

[Ser Jon]

I explained it to you twice already, this is just dishonesty.

What did you explain, exactly? Unprovable accusations based on nothing? Severe irritation with a game you probably never even played? With the brothers? You kept coming up with really bizarre reasons to bash on Tarn/Zach and DF without actually saying anything of merit at all. You're just being unreasonable and thinking these changes weren't done before due to the brothers just not caring or wanting to, but not a thing points to that sentiment at all. Then you insinuated that Tarn/Zach was playing the "incompetency excuse" as a defense because I pointed out they neither had the time or knowledge beforehand that dealt with UI design (or funds, for that matter!) to undergo writing the new changes, which was just another remark by you based entirely on assumed ill-intent with nothing to prove it.

And dishonesty, really? You can't even be honest with yourself about this. You have been assuming ill-intent this entire time and you want it to be that they just didn't care and whatever else you claimed, so nothing is ever going to convince you of otherwise. So, guess we just have to agree to disagree, don't we?

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

Rimworld had and stood its test of time.

Fortress literally set the blueprint for damn near half the entire subgenre!
That with half an interface, and graphics that would make Notepad weep with pity!

I think it's safe to say that, either way, its test of time had been stood.

 

[Mad Vader]

Fortress literally set the blueprint for damn near half the entire subgenre!
That with half an interface, and graphics that would make Notepad weep with pity!

I think it's safe to say that, either way, its test of time had been stood.

Its historic significance and influence still doesn't mean it's a good game. It was a flawed if inventive game from the start, and today it belongs more in a museum than a Steam library.
Let the regular player be the judge of whether it stood the test of time, since it HAS JUST BEEN RELEASED in its non-obscurantist incarnation. We can wait and see.

@Ser Jon You like strawmanning and are not interested in a debate. We are done.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

It had and stood its test of time.

and dwarf fortress hasn't?
you're the one who appealed to the authority of review scores, you can't have it both ways lol. "rimworld fans have enjoyed it for years and rated it highly, therefore it is good", but "dwarf fortress' high ratings is just fans who have enjoyed it for years, wait and see". absurd.

 

[Mad Vader]

and dwarf fortress hasn't?
you're the one who appealed to the authority of review scores, you can't have it both ways lol. "rimworld fans have enjoyed it for years and rated it highly, therefore it is good", but "dwarf fortress' high ratings is just fans who have enjoyed it for years, wait and see". absurd.

Rimworld had 125K reviews over 4 years. DF+UI had 6K while being out for 2 days. I'm picking Steam reviews as an authority as that's an objective, if imperfect measure.
So "wait and see" is exactly what a gentleman and a scholar would do at this point to be able to compare them. Unless he is heavily biased and is not really a scholar.

 

[Phantom425]

And dishonesty, really? You can't even be honest with yourself about this. You have been assuming ill-intent this entire time and you want it to be that they just didn't care and whatever else you claimed, so nothing is ever going to convince you of otherwise. So, guess we just have to agree to disagree, don't we?

When Mad Vader doesn't have any arguments that can change the course of a conversation he tends to try and attack your character.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

reviews remain overwhelmingly positive, both by users and by media. clearly they judged the product in front of them and said "yea, it's good".

I'm not wading into the particular Rimworld vs. Dwarf Fortress debate as it pertains to the current versions, I'm sure I'd very much enjoy Dwarf Fortress in its current form. My issue is with the previous, all-too-common excuse of "the game is bad because the developer has life struggles", and little else.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

My issue is with the previous, all-too-common excuse of "the game is bad because the developer has life struggles", and little else.

but that was not the argument presented.

ser jon did not say "the game is bad because life struggles" or use it as an excuse, but that the absence of features vader was complaining about was due to missing skillsets and it not being a focus, and that the "life struggles" as you put it are what led to the developers joining forces with kitfox games and working on those features in order to pursue a commercial release.

that is in fact very nearly the opposite of what you are suggesting was said.

Rimworld had 125K reviews over 4 years. DF+UI had 6K while being out for 2 days. I'm picking Steam reviews as an authority as that's an objective, if imperfect measure.
So "wait and see" is exactly what a gentleman and a scholar would do at this point to be able to compare them.

clearly rimworld's measly 86 positive reviews per day do not stack up to df's glorious 3000 positive reviews per day, i agree. you're right, we should wait for rimworld to catch up.

 

[Mad Vader]

When Mad Vader doesn't have any arguments that can change the course of a conversation he tends to try and attack your character.

Please read the exchange before indulging in a random attack. She claims I said "ill intent" 3 times when I explained "they didn't care" two times. Putting words into someone else's mouth is dishonest (i.e. strawman), especially when you are warned about it. And that's just the most annoying of the strawman barrage.

clearly rimworld's measly 86 positive reviews per day do not stack up to df's glorious 3000 positive reviews per day, i agree. you're right, we should wait for rimworld to catch up.

I submit to this superior reasoning and leave in shame.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

but that was not the argument presented.

ser jon did not say "the game is bad because life struggles" or use it as an excuse, but that the absence of features vader was complaining about was due to missing skillsets and it not being a focus, and that the "life struggles" as you put it are what led to the developers joining forces with kitfox games and working on those features in order to pursue a commercial release.

that is in fact very nearly the opposite of what you are suggesting was said.

No, Ser Jon did not say the game was bad, those are my own words. That said, the whole "it's just (sort of) one guy!" and "he has such a hard life" are all very interrelated excuses for the pre-commercial release state of the game, and ones that have been trotted out frequently. I've had this discussion on this forum before but suffice it to say I don't find them sufficient excuses for why the game was the way it was for so long, and I likewise feel that these are things you're more likely to accept as true and valid coming from a place of already enjoying the game as opposed to the alternative.