I don't know, Notch has done a lot of work with both voxels and dynamic terrain, I'd say he does have some authority in the matter.
Unlimited graphics in-game
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He does, but he's still human and he probably got annoyed by the exaggeration of Euclideon, and exaggerated in return. His points are not invalid, especially about animation.
Anyway, they claim in the video that in "some months from now, our developing kit will be complete and it will be handed over to the games developers". So we'll find out soon enough how much they exaggerated and how big problems there still are.
Anyway, they claim in the video that in "some months from now, our developing kit will be complete and it will be handed over to the games developers". So we'll find out soon enough how much they exaggerated and how big problems there still are.
The problem is, that video is from more than "some months" ago. Actually, it's been re-posted in various place at intervals of "some months." It doesn't matter if an engine like this is viable or not, these Euclidean people are con-men. They remind me of the group that tried to scam schools by offering them a perpetual motion machine based on magnets. 
This particular video is only 3 days old.
Aye, it's a rehash of the old video. I remember some of the exact scenes. It's a scam.
I don't think that using old material in a new video immediately makes it a scam. You can't really know for sure.
Anyway, I did a little more reading on the topic of storage space, and it turns out that all the models are actually hollow. So they aren't filled with voxels, it's just empty there. Another huge thing that Notch neglected in their calculations.
Anyway, I did a little more reading on the topic of storage space, and it turns out that all the models are actually hollow. So they aren't filled with voxels, it's just empty there. Another huge thing that Notch neglected in their calculations.
Even if it wasn't a scam..
I wouldn't want this at all.
I wouldn't want this at all.
MarkusTheManslayer
Sergeant
Graphics don't make the game. 
Sound Chaser
Grandmaster Knight
Arcadius112 said:
Luckily there is and will be enough old games to spend your life with, if you don't want to use new technology
This isn't really new technology though. Besides, by the time voxels become viable again, polygon based tech will have improved just as much.
MurryFolt
Regular
I noticed the fact that everyone is knocking how many petabytes the demo would require, and citing that as the reason this wouldn't work. Well let me tell you someting. This is a technology department that made this with grants that had a lot of zero's at the end. They could probably afford huge harddrives for this test. Imagine this for a game like Warband. How often do we have a scene that is a kilometer square stock full of objects like that? I haven't seen anything close to that ONCE!
Then of course there is the fact of duplication and such that people have brought up before. If we wanted to use this for a game like Warband, we would simply need to make a maybe a few dozen trees (each with random differences), several dozen rocks, a couple different houses, ect. and use those different ways in different scenes. We could use the same 20 or so trees thousands of times in all the scenes put together, and it wouldn't take that much space. And of course if our video cards and processors are no longer such an important factor in gaming, we can simply put that money to bigger harddrives. What's so hard about that?
So think of the biggest seen on Warband you've ever scene. Is that anywhere near as big and filled up as the demo island they made? Chances are it wasn't.
Also, of course everyone thinks this is a scam! People are always wary of breakthroughs. People used to laugh at the idea of horseless carriages, yet we take that for granted. People used to think that at this point in history we would still use computers the size of rooms, but we can use them in screwdrivers now (which are NOT the size of a room). Not to say this is real (though I personally believe it is), but you gotta give them a chance. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" that's what's happening here. This technology, if it's real, is so advanced that we conclude it can't be real. Have some fait
Then of course there is the fact of duplication and such that people have brought up before. If we wanted to use this for a game like Warband, we would simply need to make a maybe a few dozen trees (each with random differences), several dozen rocks, a couple different houses, ect. and use those different ways in different scenes. We could use the same 20 or so trees thousands of times in all the scenes put together, and it wouldn't take that much space. And of course if our video cards and processors are no longer such an important factor in gaming, we can simply put that money to bigger harddrives. What's so hard about that?
So think of the biggest seen on Warband you've ever scene. Is that anywhere near as big and filled up as the demo island they made? Chances are it wasn't.
Also, of course everyone thinks this is a scam! People are always wary of breakthroughs. People used to laugh at the idea of horseless carriages, yet we take that for granted. People used to think that at this point in history we would still use computers the size of rooms, but we can use them in screwdrivers now (which are NOT the size of a room). Not to say this is real (though I personally believe it is), but you gotta give them a chance. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" that's what's happening here. This technology, if it's real, is so advanced that we conclude it can't be real. Have some fait
MurryFolt
Regular
MarkusTheManslayer said:Graphics don't make the game.
My hope is we can improve graphics well improving things like story line and features. Especially storylines and plots. I still play games like the first Halo on my computer. It's graphics are old, but so what? It has the best multiplayer of any Halo game, in my opinion.
Specialist
Master Knight
My only real concern with all this would be the fact of animation/dynamic stuff.
We now have the Havoc engine, which can implement realtime damage without 500,000 meshes, and with PointCloud, it's not that easy.... And second (about the animation) would be the fact that nobody has really tried to animate those "Atoms" like we can polygons. They *can* design specific animations, but it takes alot of memory to move all those little dots from one side of the screen to another.
It's great technology, but 4-6 months? I think it will be released within the next 1-2 years.... 4-6 months is just too impossible to imagine...
We now have the Havoc engine, which can implement realtime damage without 500,000 meshes, and with PointCloud, it's not that easy.... And second (about the animation) would be the fact that nobody has really tried to animate those "Atoms" like we can polygons. They *can* design specific animations, but it takes alot of memory to move all those little dots from one side of the screen to another.
It's great technology, but 4-6 months? I think it will be released within the next 1-2 years.... 4-6 months is just too impossible to imagine...
Merlkir
MurryFolt said:
no, in fact we don't.
You're naive.
Specialist
Master Knight
We should give them a chance. They've made progress over the last year, and they have enough funding to go further... Once completed.... Gaming will have a new, amazing face.
Merlkir
Specialist said:
Merlkir said:
Havoc still uses polygons.Specialist said:
Yes they have, and that's part of the reason we don't use it now.
MurryFolt said:
I don't think you understand quite how much space 32 petabytes it. They really don't have the 2.6 million dollars they'd require for that amount of storage. If they did, they wouldn't be looking for funding.
MurryFolt
Regular
Merlkir said:
Okay, let's look at it this way.
Worse case: it's all a hoax or a bluff and they make themselves look like complete idiots and get haters like their's no tomorrow.
Best case: they revolutionize the way live rendering graphics work.
And we can't really NOT give them a chance, since we have no control over what they do. Raging about it now only makes us look like idiots, same with having to positive of a response (which I'm trying not to do, but we pretty much all look like idiots right now
)Sushiman said:
They recently got a big grant, and who knows how much money they had before. And did you see how many of the same objects were in the demonstration? Who says every pebble was unique? It probably didn't take nearly that much, but still much more than a normal computer could handle. They didn't actually tell us how much space it took up, probably becaue it did take up a lot. But they also said that they were working on other things that they wanted to keep secret for now. Who says more effecient harddrives or better compression techniques aren't some of those?
But I can still hardly wrap my mind around a singe petabyte regardless.
I personally don't have any problem putting faith in these guys because I'm not risking money or anything. So give them some support, they probably went into hiding because all the flak. If we're played, it's not like we lost anything.
