troop tree Statistics

[Lord Doom]

As far as I can tell hero and troop hit points bear little resemblance to actual stats, I think it's purely a game-balancing mechanism.

 

[Charles du Lac]

Ah, then we can go ahead and figure out the hard stats. In that case, AGI and STR are the only important Attributes for our purposes, since they don't level. So that'd be AGI and STR column, as well as a "HP" column, which will have an asterik explaining how it was calculated.

For the kings, I'll go ahead and put them into a "Nobility" section, where all the other nobles can be added (assuming the nobles have seperate statistics from each other) whenever you get the free time or will to post them.

In the future, we might also want to go ahead and look at the renown for the Nobility, and along with their CHA and leadership, we can determine how large of an army each lord and king can field (assuming, again, it isn't static). But that would be a bit further down the line :p. We'll call that stage 2, assuming either of us don't randomly lose interest or real life issues pop up.

Stage 3 would probably be mapping out equipment (or equipment chances, or equipment spending allotment, as I'm not sure hoe equipment is generated for troops) for everyone on a seperate sheet, which would be a much more time consuming task than the former.

Fun times.

Edit: It also occured to me that I have no idea how Hit Points are calculated. I understand that it has to do with STR and Ironflesh, and (maybe?) level... but beyond that, I cannot be sure, as I was just comparing my character, Bunduk, and Marnid, and there seems to be a complete difference. Any idea how that works? Something I'm missing? or is there a "base" HP stat?

There are 120 lords so that will take some time.

I may just have to run each troop through and get the HP from in game as I too am not sure how it is calculated.  There is a starting amount, then each ST gives more, each level gives some, and ironflesh gives some, but I don't know that starting amount.

equipment is generated from a list of possible equipment, I don't know if it stays the same or is re-calculated for each battle.  A single archer may have one set one battle and something else the next. Can someone verify this? I can just give the list of all possible equipment for each troop and character.

Renown changes during the game, but number of troops and number of prisoners does not seem to follow the rules you have to follow. I have seen a King with 300 troops and 150 prisoners and he does not have that much renown, CHA or leadership, nor prisoner management.

As far as I can tell hero and troop hit points bear little resemblance to actual stats, I think it's purely a game-balancing mechanism.

I think so too.

When I first started this I did not realize what a big job it would be, but that's OK as I do charts, tables and all sorts of note taking like this anyway. Memory being what it is, I wanted something hardcopy, not just rely on what I have learned in game.

 

[Sinful01]

Nervous Man      26  180  180  180    180    180    180    Ironflesh 9; Powerstrike 6; Powerthrow 6

Well this totally explains why I have such a hard time when I start a new game, arresting what I assumed were basically just random criminals.  Geez, wish I could hire these guys instead of bashing their heads in.

 

[BainIthron]

Right,

Well, as I said, take your time. I'm well known for doing these sorts of things explosively on a whim, and then fading out in a week or two as the farm requires more attention or I lose interest.

Again, Charles, send me your google account name or e-mail or whatever (or sign up for one, as you can use a non-gmail e-mail to set one up), so that I can add you as an owner, should I dissapear or be indisposed.

For the time being, I'm not going to add HP then as we don't know what determines it precisely, or if there's a "base HP" stat.

I suppose I'll add STR and AGI though. If we ever finish stage 3, we could eventually get the statisticians in here to make us some nice depth charts graphing out damage ratios and survivability... and then we (as well as probably the developers) will have a very concrete idea of how powerful units are compared to others (theoretically, anyway, as the multiple field variables combined with how the AI handles it differently can affect such things drastically). In the end, such a work that you started could contribute to the greater overall balancing and fine tuning of this game, though for now we'll just settle for a nice readable chart that makes sense to folks who want to plan their armies more efficiently. :p

 

[BainIthron]

Updated.

- Added Special Notes section at the end, referencing the letters I put to the left of certain items. (Are the Ordinary/Unremarkable Townsman recruitable or not?).
- Added Nobility section, starting with the Kings and Claimants of each Kingdom
- Added Agility/Strength stats for everyone, as well as the Attributes section.
Edit: - Modified Outlaws to reflect new Warband bandit promotion path as confirmed here.

Enjoy.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvcijEXqblyodEhaVFRpQ0NrYVB2MUpNVzNCZmcwS2c&hl=en#gid=0

If I might suggest it, Charles... I think you should go ahead and do the 1.126 updates (as it hinted at stat changes) before proceeding with the other lengthy tasks set before us. Thanks again for all the info!

 

[Charles du Lac]

The troop tree generator will generate a tree with the upgrade paths and some stats, just not as detailed as what I have here.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,50779.0.html

 

[Dusk Voyager]

I may just have to run each troop through and get the HP from in game as I too am not sure how it is calculated.  There is a starting amount, then each ST gives more, each level gives some, and ironflesh gives some, but I don't know that starting amount.

Base HP = Troop HP - (STR + 2*Ironflesh). Level is irrelevant.

One more thing; the codes of the troops have a level value and skill values independently. Just compare slaver chiefs and Khergit tribesmen.

 

[BainIthron]

Ah, I see...

So essentially, there is no "Everyone gets X HP"... rather different soldiers have different starting HPs, as a balancing effect.

Well, that simplifies things. So then we'll need to look at all troops, and determine their base HP. Which will really help folks balancing their armies.

Thanks.

 

[Dusk Voyager]

One thing to do would be to rework Lancers, buff mid-tier units maybe by increasing Horse Archery. Lancers are the only main "shock troopers" and they loose duels against other top tier units and even low tier.. They have Power strike 2, Iron flesh 2 (48 HP only while Knights and segreants have ~60)). 

The sheet says they have 7 STR (like almost all troops, which is also rather ridiculous). Therefore it would be 48 - [(2*2)+7] = 37.

 

[BainIthron]

Ah, thanks Dusk... However, unfortunately, that'd be incorrect.

When one goes to report these things, they have to actually go in-game and take up the variables.

While Lancers have a base STR of 7, they also level up (Randomly, I hear, but I cannot be so sure). So when leveled up, they CAN have a higher strength.

Jumping in game (I'm still on version 1.125 myself), I found that they have 48HP, but with Ironflesh 2 and STR 9. Of course, naturally, the Troops.txt reports them as STR 7.

If you, or anyone, could go in game, ask each troop what their skills are, and report their values (HP, STR, Ironflesh), along with the version of your game, that would be most helpful.

An example would be:

Version of list: 1.125
Khergit Lancer: 48 HP, STR 9, Iron 2.
etc...

Thus, we would get, assuming your original theory is correct... 48 - [(2*2)+9] = 35

Thanks again!

 

[forte712]

It looks like at version 1.126 further changes has been made.
Nord Veteran archers for example, only has power draw of 3 now..
I assume there are other changes as well.

 

[Charles du Lac]

Then I will get to it as soon as I can. After all this time with no upgrades, now we get them one right after the other. The work never stops.

 

[BainIthron]

Well, at least they're patches with content... still haven't bothered upgrading to 1.126, but it looks pretty decent.

 

[forte712]

The main reason I upgraded to 1.126 is the new investment feature in towns.

By the way, is there any way I can help with the new troops statistics? Screenshots or whatnot? (No idea how you exactly do it, so..)

 

[BainIthron]

Well, screenshots, but we'll take your word for it.

Essentially, do what I described earlier, forte712:

Ah, thanks Dusk... However, unfortunately, that'd be incorrect.

When one goes to report these things, they have to actually go in-game and take up the variables.

While Lancers have a base STR of 7, they also level up (Randomly, I hear, but I cannot be so sure). So when leveled up, they CAN have a higher strength.

Jumping in game (I'm still on version 1.125 myself), I found that they have 48HP, but with Ironflesh 2 and STR 9. Of course, naturally, the Troops.txt reports them as STR 7.

If you, or anyone, could go in game, ask each troop what their skills are, and report their values (HP, STR, Ironflesh), along with the version of your game, that would be most helpful.

An example would be:

Version of list: 1.125
Khergit Lancer: 48 HP, STR 9, Iron 2.
etc...

Thus, we would get, assuming your original theory is correct... 48 - [(2*2)+9] = 35

Thanks again!

That way we can figure out the HP. Thanks!

 

[Charles du Lac]

Updated to 1.126 now, all changes are in red, no changes for the kings panel.

 

[Kenkage]

I think this should be Stickied. I had to fix my glitched khergits (they didn't update with the right stats) with this. Could really be helpful for both knowing your enemy as well as helping with certain glitches. I couldn't put full stats up because the lancers were getting really high lvled. (bout 28 or so)

Edit: Anyone know the link to the troop editor? I want the actual set-up for the khergits not a lvled up version.

 

[Charles du Lac]

Morgh's Troop and Item editor
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=105928.0

Troop tree generator
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic%2C50779.msg1310901.html#msg1310901

TweakMB
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=101731.0

 

[Kenkage]

Thanks And it works woohoo fixed my broken Lancers

 

[Charles du Lac]

I have upgraded to version 1.127. There have been many changes, which will be in Blue, including some changes to strength and agility, as well as filling in proficiencies that before did not have any, but not all of them, there are still some troops with zero in some proficiencies.