TLD (The Last Days, LOTR mod) for M&B 1.011 Info

[ragamer]

Another minor bug:

- Formation AI ignores party stack classification. It works on the default hardcoded flags of the troop. For fun you can check this by labelling an archer stack as cavalry or infantry (Not really usefull at effective gameplay). It has an impact on certain special cases, although:

* Companions: You can't have mounted archers (they go with cavalry wedges) or foot archers (they go with infantry instead).

* Mounted Archers: See above.

* Trolls: They go with infantry (I usually assing a "monster" stack for them alone) which triggers unnavoidable massive FF when the infantry ranks meet their opposition (Fun to watch... But expensive to pay ). Speaking of which, it may be a "double bug" because when out of "Formation AI" they largely ignore commands they just charge forward, which lore-wise, may make sense (So they should be ignored by Formation AI also if this behaviour is intended).

If you are in any of the above scenarions you have to forfeit "formation AI" completely.

 

[Swyter]

Another minor bug:

- Formation AI ignores party stack classification. It works on the default hardcoded flags of the troop. For fun you can check this by labelling an archer stack as cavalry or infantry (Not really usefull at effective gameplay). It has an impact on certain special cases, although:

* Companions: You can't have mounted archers (they go with cavalry wedges) or foot archers (they go with infantry instead).

* Mounted Archers: See above.

* Trolls: They go with infantry (I usually assing a "monster" stack for them alone) which triggers unnavoidable massive FF when the infantry ranks meet their opposition (Fun to watch... But expensive to pay ). Speaking of which, it may be a "double bug" because when out of "Formation AI" they largely ignore commands they just charge forward, which lore-wise, may make sense (So they should be ignored by Formation AI also if this behaviour is intended).

If you are in any of the above scenarions you have to forfeit "formation AI" completely.

I'm trying to remove the hardcoded Warband orders panel all together, disabling its formation AI. It's conflicting with TLD's (made by motomataru!).
Basically there are two systems messing with the NPCs in the battlefield. It's all in Trello, take it a look.

 

[ragamer]

Basically there are two systems messing with the NPCs in the battlefield. It's all in Trello, take it a look.

Yeap... It's not the first mod that suffers from this. I'm monitorizing your progress on Trello (That's why I managed to fix the warg issue... Or playing as Isengard would be next to impossible), good job btw...

...But I don't want to "contaminate" your TO-DO lists with "bugs" that may be intended features instead. In the case of this "bug pack", I'm not sure if troll behaviour is a bug or feature. That's why I prefer to submit the "weirdness" first for you to decide which ones are worth investigating or which ones have to be ignored.

 

[Svanhufvud]

Question about a special item. You might wan't to find out for yourself...

Spoiler

I have the Special items whip which can recruits tribal orcs. How do I use it?

 

[Swyter]

Question about a special item. You might wan't to find out for yourself...

Spoiler

I have the Special items whip which can recruits tribal orcs. How do I use it?

When you encounter with a group of them in the map a new menu option plus dialog will appear.
It's pretty cool, hadn't seen it. Also, gives +1 to training for obvious reasons.

Spoiler

And enhances in-battle troop rallying.

 

[Andöril]

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful advice. I'm still a little confused about why no one will attack Gundabad though, all of the armies I've seen in the north are larger and higher level than ever, I'm personally wiping out any armies that step outside of Gundabad with my own 60 maximum rank archers, and in general Gundabad's resource rating is far below the minimum for siege, while the northern good factions are all at the maximum or near maximum of 8000. It's been going like this for 200 turns, sometimes Thranduil summons me to a campaign but that campaign is always just patrolling around his capital, which is completely safe. I even tried toggling TLD options to remove all "siege requirements" but no one will attack Gundabad. Is it one of these special cases that need something special to happen before it can be sieged? Also, why is the destroyed Gundabad Northern Outpost still listed on their faction page? All of the destroyed outposts for say, Rohan, have been removed.

I'm sorry if this is obvious or I'm missing something crucial, but at this point I just want this attack to happen. I've been reinforcing lords, killing orcs, and generally fighting the war myself.

Also, is there a way to make the formation AI retain its formation but stop following the player? I like the double-rank setup for archers, but the formation seems to follow me wherever I go on the battlefield, which completely negates my strategy of drawing the enemy out in front of my archer ranks for easy killing. Of course, the formations seem to ignore any normal Warband commands I give them so "Hold this position" doesn't work unless I break up the formation with U first, which then draws my troops out in a line that covers the horizon.

 

[Swyter]

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful advice. I'm still a little confused about why no one will attack Gundabad though, all of the armies I've seen in the north are larger and higher level than ever, I'm personally wiping out any armies with my own 60 maximum rank archers that step outside of Gundabad, and in general Gundabad's resource rating is far below the minimum for siege, while the northern good factions are all at the maximum or near maximum of 8000. It's been going like this for 200 turns, sometimes Thranduil summons me to a campaign but that campaign is always just patrolling around his capital, which is completely safe. I even tried toggling TLD options to remove all "siege requirements" but no one will attack Gundabad. Is it one of these special cases that need something special to happen before it can be sieged? Also, why is the destroyed Gundabad Northern Outpost still listed on their faction page? All of the destroyed outposts for say, Rohan, have been removed.
...

I can't help you with that. I haven't coded it and I don't really know the intrinsics of how that works.
I'm also busy with lone wargs and the orders panel, and that problem doesn't look Warband-specific.

The Last Days is huge and this is a new mod for me, I'm still getting acquainted with it.

 

[Andöril]

I can't help you with that. I haven't coded it and I don't really know the intrinsics of how that works.
I'm also busy with lone wargs and the orders panel, and that problem doesn't look Warband-specific.

I'm just asking for advice from anyone who has any, not asking that you fix it! 

I'd definitely like to see the wargs working properly, that's a major part of why Gundabad is so easy to steamroll. They'd be a lot more dangerous if the wargs didn't disappear when I shot the riders off, it's obviously a major part of the balancing (what little TLD had!)

 

[Swyter]

I'm just asking for advice from anyone who has any, not asking that you fix it! 

I'd definitely like to see the wargs working properly, that's a major part of why Gundabad is so easy to steamroll. They'd be a lot more dangerous if the wargs didn't disappear when I shot the riders off, it's obviously a major part of the balancing (what little TLD had!)

It's clearly a bug. Even if TLD is keeps standing proudly against artificial balancing. Never forget.

 

[Andöril]

It's clearly a bug. Even if TLD is keeps standing proudly against artificial balancing. Never forget.

I know it's a bug. I think you misinterpreted my post!

 

[Swyter]

It's clearly a bug. Even if TLD is keeps standing proudly against artificial balancing. Never forget.

I know it's a bug. I think you misinterpreted my post!

I didn't. And there's very little you can do to mitigate it apart from giving council at a great cost.

 

[Andöril]

Alright, I turned off siege requirements again. This time Thranduil is open to sieging Gundabad, so I think the bug (if there was one) is gone. I guess I'll just keep killing orcs until he launches one of his own initiative. Thanks for the advice guys, I think the problem is with Dol Guldur constantly attacking the Beornlings, which might be what drew all of the other northern armies to patrols instead of offensive efforts.

 

[SmurfInHell]

I'm having instant crashes when in a battle of Uruk-Hai and Rohan. The crash happens soon after the battle starts: I get a notice that new enemy reinforcements have arrived, right after it crashes to desktop with only a warning the M&B warband has stopped working.

The toops look something like:
Mog the Seven-Fingered's Host (159/173)
Gronk the Man-Eater's Host (111/116)
Isengard
vs.
Grimbold's Host (82/92)
Rohan-

I join in with Isengard troops (only myself atm). Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? The game was working fine when I was playing Rohan (hadn't reached all of the tree units yet). Any certain units that can cause this problem? I've tried reinstalling twice and still nothing.

EDIT: I waited until about 70 of the Rohan units were left then joined. I got two waves of enemy reinfrocements in when I noticed Wargs and Armored Wargs were randomly falling unconscious. When one passed by my screen the game crashed. It seems warg related.

 

[Inanch-Bilge]

Yes its related to wargs

take that

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108770784/wargs.brf

 

[Andöril]

EDIT: I waited until about 70 of the Rohan units were left then joined. I got two waves of enemy reinfrocements in when I noticed Wargs and Armored Wargs were randomly falling unconscious. When one passed by my screen the game crashed. It seems warg related.

It is warg related, grab the quick warg fix by Swyter.

Also try searching a little harder next time, this is probably the most commonly searched issue about the game right now, searching for crashes related to the port almost always points straight towards it.

Not directed at you, but I'm not even going to bother pointing this out to people any more. I've helped people on four other forums with it too, and it's all easily solved by one or two simple google searches!

Blegh beat me to it.

 

[ragamer]

Also, is there a way to make the formation AI retain its formation but stop following the player? I like the double-rank setup for archers, but the formation seems to follow me wherever I go on the battlefield, which completely negates my strategy of drawing the enemy out in front of my archer ranks for easy killing. Of course, the formations seem to ignore any normal Warband commands I give them so "Hold this position" doesn't work unless I break up the formation with U first, which then draws my troops out in a line that covers the horizon.

This is a temporal "tips" because there is a current effort into making "formation AI" to work properly, so I think we can expect changes here, so the following tips may become obsolete soon(tm) :

- To control your formations at the start of a battle perform F2+F5 (It will disable all formations and prevent your stuck horsemen from dismounting... Specially important if you have warg riders because the wargs dissapear immediatly).

- Move to were you want your infantry ranks/SW to be... Use "J", "K", "L" or ";" and the infantry will move to the possition you were at the moment of pressing the key and stay there. Notice that the Infantry logic will move back and forth slightly "taunting" enemy and avoiding cavalry. If you want to relocate you have to disable the formation (F2 or U) and repeat the process. Archers behave the same... But, tbh, using vanilla F2+F4 twice will compact them enough and they will not move back autonomously, which is usually a pain when you are formed in the highest hill available.

- Cavalry is the most stubborn because if you command a wedge ("L") it will initially form were you commanded it but a few moments later will follow you if you are mounted. The whole point of Wedge in other modules with this feature is to be able to command the cavalry to perform "manual charges" (By holding F1) were they rush over the enemy without spreading around... So ATM I simply disable their formation (As an Uruk I can't really spearhead a wedge cavalry formation... It usually ends early with a meter long elven wooden shaft conveniently allocated were my brain usually is ).

- As you point, formations ignore commands unless disbanded... Particularly problematic with the F1+F3 (Charge)... Which is critical.

Seems that some of the weirdness a given user is experiencing are born from the "Formation AI" considering the player a valid unit based on if he is mounted or not... At least from my observations as Uruk (I spent the 1st 300 days exclusively as as a Commander-on-foot and cavalry worked normally, and after been able to ride, situation changed again and now infantry works properly. Maybe in your case the system considers you an Archer and thus, archers will follow you around doesn't matter what).

So, in short, until we get "greenlight" from TLD dev, IMHO, "Formation AI" is only usefull for infantry squads... Specially if you have to face ranged attackers, to command a SW to be sure your 2h wielders are protected by shield users.

 

[SRACon17]

I just disabled Formations in the TLD options

 

[Swyter]

I just disabled Formations in the TLD options

And what one do you like the most, Native Warband's or TLD's by motomataru?
I'd do a poll, but only Triglav has the power over here. It's also more "intimate".


Seriously. To people who has played TLD in M&B 1.011, do you think that removing the custom formation code and leaving Native's will suffice?


--

Also, I'd also like to know your opinion about patching from now on, at first I was aiming for standalone releases, as some people are having trouble overwriting files once. On the other hand, many others don't have the bandwidth to download another half a gig and patches from now on will be extremely small.

Now, what I ask is, do you prefer patches for either version, or just for M&B 1.011 with a complementary Warband compatibility patch over them?

[color=navy](*) TLD 3.3 Standalone for M&B 1.011 -> TLD 3.3a Patch for M&B 1.011
    \ Warband Compatibility Patch       \ Warband Compatibility Patch[/color]

OR

[color=navy](*) TLD 3.3 Standalone for M&B 1.011 -> TLD 3.3a Patch for M&B 1.011
    \ Warband Compatibility Patch    -> TLD 3.3a Patch for M&B WB[/color]

 

[Khamukkamu]

I love motomataru's Formations AI. I used it all the time, and is especially vital for the Evil side when fighting against Elven archers. For me, warband's formations are insufficient.

As for patches, as most players now play on Warband, whichever method is easiest and most user-friendly to warband players would be the best way of patching. You have more experience with making things user friendly as you had to deal with SWC, so it's your discretion

 

[Kwal]

I much prefer motomataru's version. The only thing I like better in Warband strategy-wise is that you can assign multiple squads. I'm with ^ on the patching.