The Battle for Tihr RP Discussion Thread
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Consider the following:
Beorn is raising an army of a bit over double the size which any one kingdom normally would field.
Now, obviously, quality is being substituted with quantity here.
The only thing you could say is a strong-point in the new Nord forces is that they are well-trained.
They're mostly equipped only as well as say, Nord Footmen or Trained Footmen. But they are all about a tier higher in training than their equipment would show. They'll be fighting almost exclusively in formations, unless the situation calls for something else.
I am taking away the individuality of the Nord soldier, and making him part of a single unit.
Lord armies remain, and retain their huscarls and retainers, but they now serve only as an elite minority.
To defeat such an army is to defeat Beorn's ideals for what a proper army would look like. Do that, and manage to re-unite the Rhodok and Swadian kingdoms, and he will accept defeat, I promise.
At each point in time during a clash of arms in the large scale battles which shall happen, should not victory be given to the side which is more favoured by the majority of RPers?
This would almost ensure some sort of balance between hoped for conclusion, and well thought-out use of troops in battle.
Yes, I am saying that I think quality of tactics should be considered in your opinion of who wins.
Let the final phase begin.
Beorn is raising an army of a bit over double the size which any one kingdom normally would field.
Now, obviously, quality is being substituted with quantity here.
The only thing you could say is a strong-point in the new Nord forces is that they are well-trained.
They're mostly equipped only as well as say, Nord Footmen or Trained Footmen. But they are all about a tier higher in training than their equipment would show. They'll be fighting almost exclusively in formations, unless the situation calls for something else.
I am taking away the individuality of the Nord soldier, and making him part of a single unit.
Lord armies remain, and retain their huscarls and retainers, but they now serve only as an elite minority.
To defeat such an army is to defeat Beorn's ideals for what a proper army would look like. Do that, and manage to re-unite the Rhodok and Swadian kingdoms, and he will accept defeat, I promise.
At each point in time during a clash of arms in the large scale battles which shall happen, should not victory be given to the side which is more favoured by the majority of RPers?
This would almost ensure some sort of balance between hoped for conclusion, and well thought-out use of troops in battle.
Yes, I am saying that I think quality of tactics should be considered in your opinion of who wins.
Let the final phase begin.
Well... think of this, where did Beorn get the men?
Most brave heroes have died, there are no more Berserkrs.
The only large fief you have left is Sargoth, and I'm not sure if the Nord main land accepts Lethwin's reign.
And I'm quite sure the Rhodok and Swadian armies combined would quite go over that quantity with a land about ten times larger than current Nord lands and denser populated area's.
You'd be a threat to the northern regions, I won't deny that, but I doubt you'd win a war after all. Not unless you can think of a good reason where you'd get the men. (You'd probably need over ten thousand to conquer ALL the land, say you would want that.)
So here's the deal, I say we take our time to build that army (like seriously about one or more years of game time + try to get reinforcements from over the sea
).
Of course there will be multiple skippings, as Winter is coming.
In the meanwhile we develop our characters, add lore to story and get a sense of how the worl looks like these days...
Waddayasay eh?
Also:
Most brave heroes have died, there are no more Berserkrs.
The only large fief you have left is Sargoth, and I'm not sure if the Nord main land accepts Lethwin's reign.
And I'm quite sure the Rhodok and Swadian armies combined would quite go over that quantity with a land about ten times larger than current Nord lands and denser populated area's.
You'd be a threat to the northern regions, I won't deny that, but I doubt you'd win a war after all. Not unless you can think of a good reason where you'd get the men. (You'd probably need over ten thousand to conquer ALL the land, say you would want that.)
So here's the deal, I say we take our time to build that army (like seriously about one or more years of game time + try to get reinforcements from over the sea
). Of course there will be multiple skippings, as Winter is coming.
In the meanwhile we develop our characters, add lore to story and get a sense of how the worl looks like these days...
Waddayasay eh?
Also:
Maekir
But the Nords already lost two-thirds of their initial territory...Rallix said:
Or are they getting reinforcements from overseas?
I think the Rhodok-Swadian alliance has a good chance. Losses should be rather heavy, but both armies now have a good deal of veterans from the battles of Yalen and Tihr, and of course there are mercenary companies like Ludial's, and individual mercenaries (as my char nbow has become), who can bolster the armies to a good size.
I think to re-unite both kingdoms would be quite inacteptable to both monarchs (except if they marry of course, which I highly doubt), not at least by their peoples. Swadians see the Rhodoks as rebels, who should be brought under the Swadian rule again (or at least I think the Swadians see them like that). Harlaus would never release his claims on the Rhodok lands, because that would mean a big loss of prestige, but maybe with Isolla on the Throne things will change...
Rhodoks value their freedom, and will never just accept Swadian supremacy, although a union with Swadia isn't unthinkable for them.
(All above is of course based on how I see it; I may be completely wrong too.)
Anyway. I think a union between the Rhodok and Swadian kingdoms os most unlikely. A temporal alliance seems much more logical to me, especially when faced with the Nord 'New Model Army' that is currently being made by Beorn. If the Nords are eventually defeated, and their remains driven into the seas to never pose a threat to the other factions again, I think the alliance may fall apart and the eternal wars between the factions will start all over again. Or the alliance wipes out the Vaegirs as well...
If the alliance will be defeated... well, the battle for Tihr only means the death of the Nord Usurpator (Ragnar), and has bought about the rise of Lethwin in some sense. Otherwise, it has totally been meaningless for the other factions.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Tim.
Yeah, while you built a new army virtually from scratch, Swadia and the Rhodoks lick their woulds, refit their companies,
I don't think a Pax-Caldaria is ever really a possibility. Much like our own history there are just too many things that can go wrong or happen along the way.
I have to agree with Joe as well, the Rhodoks and Swadians seem like good temporary allies but in the long run I see them returning to less friendly terms.
Realistically, I would imagine the defeated faction would simply face poor terms on an eventual peace treaty. Not that such a thing does not have massive consequences but I can't see any faction being utterly and completely defeated. Considering how continental Europe was during the Medieval Ages, especially in regards to France, England, the HRE and Spain. You basically have a whole lot of flip-flopping, where for X period of time one nation or alliance seems to dominate, only for circumstances to change and another suddenly taking control.
I have to agree with Joe as well, the Rhodoks and Swadians seem like good temporary allies but in the long run I see them returning to less friendly terms.
Realistically, I would imagine the defeated faction would simply face poor terms on an eventual peace treaty. Not that such a thing does not have massive consequences but I can't see any faction being utterly and completely defeated. Considering how continental Europe was during the Medieval Ages, especially in regards to France, England, the HRE and Spain. You basically have a whole lot of flip-flopping, where for X period of time one nation or alliance seems to dominate, only for circumstances to change and another suddenly taking control.
Alright, I'll slow down a bit.
I wanted a timeskip to a point where the Swadians and Rhodoks were both prepared.
Also, a new-model army is really a rather simple thing to get troops for.
Tell me, how high is the population of the Nordlands?
If it is around even 20,000 people, my numbers are justified.
4-5 thousand men, the half of the male population(the ones capable of bearing arms).
20,000 people, keep in mind, really is quite small. How large is Calradia in its scale?
They are conscripts, you see. That, and if we take into account the possibility of overseas reinforcements, mercenaries/irregulars, and recruitment of sea-raiders...
If only I were a Khergit. I could have a ready supply of trained troops, all mounted and capable.
From what I remember you guys telling me, the Nords are missing two of their cities, and possibly a castle.
The villages accompanying those can easily be retaken. Tihr is in ruins.
I admit, they are major population centers, and the army could fulfill its current size completely with regulars from such areas.
Well, if they have Tihr and Wercheg it would be, unlike the game, likely that they have the surrounding castles as well (It's not realistic to just ignore castles and go straight on to the eventual goal.)
Perhaps a few minor strongholds though.
As for Nordic population: If you're going to train half of the men, they're not able to work the land
But my guess is the population will grow very quickly, since Nordic Refugees (among them many widows and orphans) will head down to Sargoth.
That, however, is not a blessing, but a problem you will have to deal with first.
Such as preventing a famine by having more men work the lands, and thus reducing the army. That is why I say it's unlikely to have a large Nord army in yhe first year(s).
Perhaps a few minor strongholds though.
As for Nordic population: If you're going to train half of the men, they're not able to work the land
But my guess is the population will grow very quickly, since Nordic Refugees (among them many widows and orphans) will head down to Sargoth.
That, however, is not a blessing, but a problem you will have to deal with first.
Such as preventing a famine by having more men work the lands, and thus reducing the army. That is why I say it's unlikely to have a large Nord army in yhe first year(s).
So, it's basically a Nord version of the levée en masse?
Consider that the 'professional soldier' of that era isn't the conscript, no matter how well trained or motivated. The 'professional soldier' of the Middle Ages is the Mercenary, the soldier who makes a living out of wars and pays for his own equipment, and the armored and mounted noble, the Knight. Swadia will be able to provide both.
The Rhodoks have plenty of citizen (and rural) militia already, I believe. They lack the training and axes of your new Nords, but they seem to have experience, as well as loads of crossbows.
Maybe a load of berserkers could win a war for the Nords though.
But this argument will be fought over on the battlefield, I guess. I look forward to it.
EDIT: Ninja'd again.
Consider that the 'professional soldier' of that era isn't the conscript, no matter how well trained or motivated. The 'professional soldier' of the Middle Ages is the Mercenary, the soldier who makes a living out of wars and pays for his own equipment, and the armored and mounted noble, the Knight. Swadia will be able to provide both.
The Rhodoks have plenty of citizen (and rural) militia already, I believe. They lack the training and axes of your new Nords, but they seem to have experience, as well as loads of crossbows.
Maybe a load of berserkers could win a war for the Nords though.
But this argument will be fought over on the battlefield, I guess. I look forward to it.
EDIT: Ninja'd again.
And you are completely right Tim.
My army cannot sustain itself on cold water and discipline alone.
There's a nice game called 0 AD; it's a lot like Ages of Empires, but with a higher troops limit, loads more lag, and a startlingly useful feature.
Any soldier unit is also a worker/builder. Where before they were serfs, they are now both soldiers and farmers.
When spring rolls in, they shall begin their toil, but for the winter(when they cannot do farming), which is coming now, they shall train.
My army cannot sustain itself on cold water and discipline alone.
There's a nice game called 0 AD; it's a lot like Ages of Empires, but with a higher troops limit, loads more lag, and a startlingly useful feature.
Any soldier unit is also a worker/builder. Where before they were serfs, they are now both soldiers and farmers.
When spring rolls in, they shall begin their toil, but for the winter(when they cannot do farming), which is coming now, they shall train.
Well, campaigns were often started during Spring and Summer time and I assume the thread started in April 1257, just like the game. So next winter is 1257-1258.
But that is my interpretation.
I have something near ready, but I'll wait on other people's reply before skipping the Winter, some may have plans during it. Joe and/or Ludial will probably like to make a post before it begins as well.
But that is my interpretation.
I have something near ready, but I'll wait on other people's reply before skipping the Winter, some may have plans during it. Joe and/or Ludial will probably like to make a post before it begins as well.
