SotS : Intergalactic Space Lizards Ahoy!

[iamahorse]

You have perked my interest. So, how's the AI and diplomacy? Does it feature trade? Wiki didn't mention anything other than combat, ships and races. Oh, and are all ships coloured? I'd prefer not to have red ships flying around, hurts immersion for me. How tactical are the battles?

The tactical battles are exactly that: tactical. You need to understand your ships and their weapons (which you hopefully have miticulously created) and fleets vary from situation to situation, leading to you even creating specialised fleets to back up your 'back bone' ones (this is what I do, it also adds to the RP element for me as I like thinking that my flying-space-dolphins-of-doom-fleet-with-super-special-cannons-for-blasting-monkeys are unique in every way). In short, the battles are the fun and the main draw!

The AI is much better with the 1.66 patch, with it actually setting up negotiations of their own beyond "kill human player" and you will sometimes even have entire-game lasting alliances (mostly with the Morrigi and Liir, the former being a merchant race of bird-dragons and the latter care bear dolphin people; though I recall reading something on the boards for the game that an alliance can be aquired with the more martial/sane (read: Tarkas, the Zuul are bat**** crazy) if you strong arm them so much that they grow to respect you). So it is improving, and should do so more as more mini-expansions are released (though I think the upcoming one is the last before work on SotS 2 is started).

An economic aspect has been introduced as of A Murder of Crows, which also introduced my favourite race of Bird-Things, and it is fairly engaging. I have not played the game in a few weeks or so, so I am a bit hazy about its finer details.

In short: Buy it. It'll be cheap as hell on Friday to get all three games. Also swing by http://sots.rorschach.net/ the official wiki and http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/index.php the official forums for a ton of advice and lore surrounding the game. It is fairly developed and should you care to read it you will grasp better why certain races react certain ways and you can even understand how to play your own favourite better! Also there is quite a bit of in-game aspects which lead to immersion, always a plus!

*Swoon*


EDIT:

HOWEVER, the learning curve is surprisingly... not steep! It is fairly easy to grasp (which goes to show you that ****ting out features onto your game is not always better- I am looking at you Galactic Empires 2) and the video tutorials are seriously helpful. I mean seriously. Extremely, even, and they are fairly well put together! Full Voice-Overs and whatnot and the dude's voice isn't all that annoying and kind of... nice.

EDIT EDIT:

Oh, oh oh! I forgot to mention that each race travels space differently, lending to every race playing completely differently! Compare the Human's Node-Travel system, which allows them to utilise nodes caused by Stars distorting space, or something like that, to travel to various systems through pre-determined 'highways', to the Hivers, a terrestrial mother-loving insect race who travel at sub-light speeds no matter what (they never achieve Faster Than Light, ever) but once they reach their destination a ship with a Hiver Gate can set up a Gate allowing for instantaneous travel to that system (which makes for an awesome defensive tactic of 'keep everything at a few certain points and just send out fleets as they are needed', to the Moriigi who use this weird 'flock' system that allows them to travel faster the more ships present in their fleet!

Thrilling, truly.

 

[Mage246]

You forgot the Zuul: they use a node system, like the humans, the difference is that the network isn't pre-determined, they build the nodes themselves so they can optimize the network. The drawback is that they have to keep recreating the nodes as time goes on, or they degrade and stop working. But on the plus side, the node boring ship is quite powerful for an early vessel.

 

[iamahorse]

I tend to always forget the Zuul because to me they are just an angry abominable cross between a sasquatch and a lizard given the ability to speak and achieve space travels just so they can muck about in the galaxy to declare war on everything.

 

[Mage246]

I think the game relies on the combat system too much for my liking. You'll find that the 30:5 odds aren't that uncommon (sometime they're even worse), so it simply isn't practical to use the auto-calc. Combat turned into a distraction keeping me from spending more time on something I actually enjoy: empire-building.

 

[iamahorse]

Ehh, they have been fixing that- or at least in my play sessions and what I read on the forums. Though I will admit that the game is primarily about battles, at least it manages to make them interesting.

And it all depends on your play style and the race you choose, really. For instance the Zuul are not about Empire Building, but more so Empire Crushing- meaning that they have to constantly expand as a stagnant Zuul is a dead Zuul. Thinking on it the simplified diplomacy is fairly... sensible. While you can haggle every last detail of a treaty in Space Empires IV/V (which is fun, do not get me wrong) it not only hampers the AI with options it does not understand it also adds a rather useless and unrealistic veneer to the game. Just think about it:

Two completely alien races meet for the first time, in SotS the default option is war- as you are not sure what the hell the other race is up to (you have the ability to peacefully resolve, however, should conflict occur before languages can be understood). From there you can either go onto a non-aggression, where you find that the other race is not an immediate threat to your plans/security, and alliance, where you are damned near positive that they are not a threat and that you share similar threats.

No technology trading (I mean really, one it would break the game as techs are random to an extent and it would break immersion because I find it hard to believe my Moriigi are at all in a position to understand Hiver gates when we have our own more than adequate flock system) is a good thing in my opinion, and they kind of make up for it with the ability to assist in trade/research (if it worked better).

 

[Archonsod]

The next expansion due in June/July, not really sure, is to focus on ship building, I think. Oodles of creative space death will abound within a month or two!

June 17th.

* 19 new technologies, including advanced drones, over thrusters, two new satellite designs, defensive interceptor micro-missiles, and polarized plasmatics which will unlock a new weapon type
* Over 75 new ship sections to build
* 10 new weapons, including the new inertial cannons, kelvinic torpedoes, and the fearsome rail cannon
* 3 new scenarios

So, how's the AI and diplomacy?

AI is pretty competent over all. You get the occasional brain farts, like it inviting someone into an alliance and then threatening to leave if the invitation is accepted, but apart from little bouts of idiocy like that it's generally pretty good. Each race has it's own characteristics too.
Diplomacy is fairly basic, at least in single player. The AI will tell you how it feels about you (or another race) and is fairly sensible when it comes to forming a non-aggression treaty or joining/forming an alliance. AMoC expands it slightly to allow research and economic pacts, but I've never seen the AI use them (though it will respond to them).

Does it feature trade?

Yes. When the Liir stop kicking my arse I might get to it myself You need to unlock it with FTL Economy research, then you can build freighters to trade in any sector you've secured (i.e. no hostile colonies). Morrigi can additionally trade to any foreign race they have researched the language tech for. Additional techs let you upgrade the freighters, and you and the foe (except Hiver) can raid your enemies mercantile shipping. Really I should be using trade to compensate for my small Empire, but until I get the Liir under control I can't afford it (and they'd probably raid me into oblivion anyway).

Oh, and are all ships coloured?

Depends what you mean by coloured. All ships have identification markings in their owning player's colour, according to race aesthetics. Tarka paint their hulls to look like their own skin markings as a means of showing family/faction loyalty; Hivers like their ships to look like female members of their species (don't ask), Zuul cobble their ships together from the remains of defeated foes, Morrigi decorate their 'wing feathers' as you can see in the screenshot and so forth.

How tactical are the battles?

It's the focus of the entire game, so hugely? I could probably write a book on the intricacies of combat, and you have full control over all of your ships if you want it. I generally prefer to work with the AI unless there's a pressing need to micromanage; it's usually pretty smart once you've got the hang of the various stances and other means of controlling it.

though I recall reading something on the boards for the game that an alliance can be aquired with the more martial/sane (read: Tarkas, the Zuul are bat**** crazy) if you strong arm them so much that they grow to respect you).

You can even get in an alliance with the Zuul nowadays, but you need to have researched their language tree up to "Dominate Zuul" before it's practical (and even then, expect them to bite you in the arse as soon as they think it's practical). Tarka have similar alliance requirements as humans (i.e. you have to be either comparable in power to them, or else providing one hell of an advantage to them). Hiver and Liir are slightly more easy going, in fact this is the first time I've been stuck in a war with the Liir without striking the first blow. Morrigi will happily NAP anyone, but largely so they can sell you the shirt off your back. Hivers too are quite keen on Allying with everyone, but in their case it's to stick a gate above your planets so they can wipe you out in a single turn of treachery.

HOWEVER, the learning curve is surprisingly... not steep!

Most people get confused by the 3D map I think it's one of those games that take a little time to click, but once it does you're flying. At least until someone gets point defence systems

You forgot the Zuul: they use a node system, like the humans, the difference is that the network isn't pre-determined, they build the nodes themselves so they can optimize the network. The drawback is that they have to keep recreating the nodes as time goes on, or they degrade and stop working. But on the plus side, the node boring ship is quite powerful for an early vessel.

Personally, I'd say the main drawback is the fact that creating said nodes increases the chance of a phantom attack. That and the constant resource consumption on your planets.
The node ships themselves aren't much to write home about to begin with; it's the cruiser level and above when they get interesting with a near instant death beam attack. Prior to that they just have higher hull armour, which for the Zuul makes them about as tough as a normal ship.
Never really managed to master the Zuul. They require you go aggressive from turn 1 to get anywhere, and I tend to boom rather than attack.

 

[iamahorse]

Exactly my problem with the Zuul, Arch. Though one of my friends, and coincidently the only player I have ever played against, has managed to do it. She has the Zuul down so utterly my ass was handed to me by turn 100 on a maximum sized game.

 

[Sir Prince]

When i saw the sale I wondered if Arch would make a thread about it. I'll be buying it, sales are nice

 

[Mage246]

What's a "phantom attack", I don't remember ever getting one of those.

 

[Elenmmare]

Hey, Arch. I'm not a very mainstream gamer, and I loved GalCiv2. Would you recommend this game, despite the lower reviews it got? It seems to appeal to the niche market.

I know you probably hate questions like this.

You know what, scratch that. I'm off to buy it.

 

[Togakure]

  Nice read, Arch.  I bought all three of these (SotS through MoC) at once via GG late last year, at the suggestion of a Total War multiplayer m8 who also enjoys sophisticated space games that focus as much or more on real-time tactical aspects than turn-based grand strategy ( SotS has both).  I wasn't disappointed.  I played it exclusively for a couple of months (as Tarka, Liir, and Morrigi in MoC) and then got distracted away from it, so my memories aren't fresh.  I did thoroughly enjoy it, and will get back to it soon.  Destroying the Locust menace with a single dreadnought on the first try  (was quite lucky as I'd little experience at that point), and finding the Von Neumann home world for the first time was really cool.

 

[Archonsod]

What's a "phantom attack", I don't remember ever getting one of those.

Spectre's, also known as phantoms, node wraiths, spooks, ghosts and "those annoying ****ing clouds".  Immune to non-energy weapons, available in three sizes and rather adept at wiping out planets. Guaranteed to appear for combats within node space, and have a propensity for attacking planets outside of it, particularly those where there has been high levels of node space activity.

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

I might get the pack tomorrow - I never bought AMoC and I've lost my BoB+SoTS CD key.

 

[Agent Griff]

How do the Hiver ships look like?

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

Bugs sprouting guns.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Their capital ships have some sort of revolving ring, their bridges look like bug heads.

 

[Archonsod]

Cetacean Carnage

To recap; the Liir for some reason have decided to eliminate me from the galaxy, however the Morrigi have formed an alliance. Having begun expansion into my neighbouring cluster, the Liir managed to eliminate the larger of my new colonies, leaving me with a tiny foothold into the cluster. After switching priorities to ballistic weapons my new Bludgeon class cruisers managed to expel the Liir from my former colony, allowing me to recolonise.
With the reconquest successful, I decide to go on an all out offensive. One of the benefits of my alliance with the Morrigi is we now share map data, and they have located the Liir stronghold in one of the clusters bordering my new frontier. Bursters are soon researched, followed by yet another ballistic weapon - the mass shotgun. This baby is ideal against the Liir destroyer swarms, firing a cone of smaller shots which although largely harmless against larger vessels will shred a tightly packed destroyer group. The Mk 2 Bludgeon features a forward firing shotgun and a burster on the engine section, alongside the existing stormers. I also start researching C&C control. Command ships are highly useful; not only does it permit you to set the order and formation your ships will deploy, but you can control your reserves and similar. As of AMoC, reinforcements will also arrive to the battle at the position of your command ship. One of the problems in my battle against the Liir thus far is the lack of command; not only does it hamper my fleet building efforts, but it also means I'm only capable of fielding two cruisers to twenty or more Liir vessels. Unfortunately, my colony is not yet secure

Oh dear. Evidently the Liir saw off a VN probe while they were in control of the planet. If I had science labs I would have had some warning, but as I've yet to research space construction this attack comes out of the blue. Luckily, I'm already constructing a fleet to take the fight to the Liir here, so I have some decent defenders.
I mentioned how nasty the VN beserker was before, but to illustrate:

This thing consists of several ships. It has a group of escort saucers which can cloak, the bottom and top sections divide into smaller craft and the mid section is a cruiser level ship in it's own right. The worst part about this is that several will gun for your ships while the rest head directly to the planet. My reliance on mass drivers actually comes in handy here; the escorts immediately cloak, however since my Mk 3 Bludgeons essentially fill space with a cloud of shrapnel I'm not dependent on visibility to hit them. Deep Scan equipped ships could negate the cloak, however the only DS capable ships I have are the support ships - my refineries to be precise.
We manage to take out the central section and destroy several of the smaller ships. A few of my cruisers are destroyed in the attempt, however this causes my support craft to join the battle and their DS sections reveal the cloaked escorts. We fail to annihilate the VN completely, however with no mid section the battle counts as a victory for me. I'm down to a few support ships and two heavily damaged Bludgeons, but against a Beserker at this point we done well.
Over the next few turns I prepare fleets to repulse the Liir from this sector of the galaxy. They've managed to persuade the independent Hiver colony to join them, and also taken over the human colony. The cheeky dolphins even colonise one of the planets I can't inhabit in my home cluster! I destroy the colony and as I mentioned earlier, the Liir's terraforming efforts have now brought the planet into my habitability range. Unfortunately I've already mined this system to zero and dumped the resources on our homeworld.
The problem with ballistics is they're not too great at crushing colonies. They smash infrastructure, however until you get to higher tier weapons they do little damage to the population. I commission a new ship type, the Gecko Mk 1, loaded out with missiles which are excellent for killing colonies, albeit at the risk of damaging their climate hazard rating. These ships make use of several new technologies I've acquired in the meantime. Research into the Zuul culture revealed by our allies unlocks the War mission section; modelled on the Zuul this is lighter armoured than most combat sections but sacrifices some of the smaller mounts for more medium weapon mounts. I redesign the Bludgeon class to make use of this, packing in more shotguns and bursters onto their hull. I also grab fusion torpedo's, slow moving energy missiles with some tracking capabilities which cause more damage the longer they are in flight. This unlocks the Barrage section, although I don't make use of it, while the discovery of heavy combat lasers gives me access to battle bridges (the HC lasers are cutting beams, not particularly useful against small, fast ships but highly useful against larger vessels and planets). I also manage to upgrade our missile payloads to antimatter based warheads, and also discover corrosive missiles; these babies create a cloud of acid when they detonate, which lasts a short while before dissipating and will damage any ships moving through it.
My attack against the Liir consists of three fleets deployed in a V formation with the Bludgeons in the van and a Gecko on the extreme of the tips. We rapidly push them out of the cluster, and since I've attached five coloniser ships to each fleet I can immediately take over the worlds we conquer, taking advantage of the Liir's infrastructure once we've eliminated it's previous owners. Unfortunately I haven't advanced our Hiver research far enough to support a Hiver population, and they flee their former colony once we take it from the Liir.
Things aren't going completely to plan though. The Morrigi cancel our alliance almost as soon as we attack the Liir. The Liir meanwhile are starting to move to cruiser fleets, and it's starting to adapt to my technology:

The blue field is a deflector shield, a unique style of shield which is projected in front of the craft and stops all ballistic weapons, including missiles and mass drivers, from hitting the ship. We manage to destroy the cruiser by the simple expedient of attacking from all sides, however thus far I've been dependent purely on ballistic weapons, so the encounter acts as a large wake up call. I need to diversify into energy weapons sooner rather than later.
Having pushed the Liir out of my neighbouring cluster I switch to consolidation. I need to give my new colonies time to develop to a point where they can defend themselves, and since I now have exclusive control over two clusters it seems like a good time to break out the trade ships. I now have a border with the Liir on one side and the Morrigi on the other, and I'll need to boost my income to be able to maintain both a defensive and offensive fleet. I'm not too sure which way to go with weapon research either; I could pursue the laser tree in the hope of getting phasers (deadly laser weapons), however I know I already have fusion projectors available (imagine the fusion cannon, except around ten of them firing at once). The question of whether to continue my war against the Liir or switch to my former Morrigi allies is also open. Hitting one will leave me somewhat vulnerable to the other, and both are likely to be preparing an assault against me (unless of course they have other problems - there's still the Humans, Hivers and Zuul out there somewhere).

To finish, a close up of a Morrigi ship which shows the decorated wing and tail feathers I mentioned earlier. They're definitely one of the more beautiful looking factions; they have a sleek profile and those turrets actually pop up when needed, ordinarily they're retracted into the hull.

 

[arbites_augmented]

Your updates are brilliant; so detailed.

I need to buy the game again, lost it.

 

[Lyze]

Archonsod, your reports are brilliant. I've played SotS:BoB and the original at a friend's house, but your reports have truly convinced me to purchase the game. This is very entertaining to read.

 

[Archonsod]

It gets better

The war against the Liir rapidly grinds to a halt. Presumably, the Liir have been investing in their armour tech, because my Bludgeon class cruisers become horribly ineffective against their cruisers. I grab neutronium rounds and research the heavy version of the stormers and basic drivers which returns a more level playing field between us, but it's pretty clear I need to diversify. Quickly. In non-military news, my research into trade pays off as I get all three freighter techs, allowing me to build Q-Freighters which are not only larger than normal freighters, but pack a fearsome broadside of six medium weapon slots. Good job too, since no sooner have I begun building them I start facing pirate raids. Thankfully the stormer packing Q Freighters prove good enough to see off the raiders without escorts.
The Liir and I fight over several planets in my new cluster, swapping owners a couple of times before my newly upgraded Mk 6 Bludgeons can curtail his incursions. During this time I get a notice that the Zuul player has been eliminated. On the one hand it's kind of annoying, since I won't get to show the evil marsupials here. On the other it does set my mind at ease; the Zuul by this point in the game would have had a veritable legion if left undisturbed. I also notice the Hiver occupy the cluster beyond the Morrigi, however as yet the insects to not deign to speak with us. We do meet some new friends however :

The Humans occupy the cluster below the big fish. I haven't managed to scout much of their territory yet, but they seem happy to form a NAP with me while we concentrate on our mutual enemy the Liir. The pact is soon cancelled, however the tail less monkeys seem content to focus on the fish for now.
Anyway, the energy weapon tree is being incredibly generous. I finally get the fusion projector researched, along with my final hull armour upgrade. As the Liir seem to have switched to a laser/cannon mix I also grab the reflective and improved reflective coating upgrades too. The result is the ship you see at the start of this post, the Emperor class cruiser, packing a Fusion Projector alongside the HC lasers and some large armour piercing mass drivers. She lacks any anti-missile defence, having a single laser point defence turret protecting her underbelly, but she's the toughest and meanest ship I've yet fielded. Fleets combining a mix of Emperor and Bludgeon class cruisers are instrumental in pushing the Liir back to their home cluster, leaving me the undisputed tyrant of three star clusters. As a bonus, one of the engagements unlocks a special project, which indicates we've managed to steal some tech of the Liir.
The success against the Liir isn't without cost however. Perhaps realising my defences can stop any frontal assault, the Liir begin deploying bio-war cruisers against my planet. These nasty little ships pack a special missile which, should it hit my planet, deploys a horrible plague into the atmosphere. The Liir are naturally the best biologists, and I lose three colonies to their engineered retrovirus attacks before I can find a cure (which almost costs me a fourth planet when an accident at the lab unleashes our own version of the plague against the planet). While recovering from these losses I take a gamble on teching up to Antimatter propulsion systems and am duly rewarded when my scientists manage to discover it in seven turns rather than the 12 they were predicting. Further research into energy weapons likewise reveals I have the full phaser tech available to me. Before long, the anti-matter warp engine is powering the Emperor Mk 2 cruiser, which is packing numerous particle beams and phasers. Karma bites me in the arse however, as a strange signature is detected out in space heading towards one of my outlying colonies. Oops

Locusts! I hate these guys. It's one of the more dangerous menaces which can spawn in the galaxy. This thing is the size of a small planet and covered with tiny fighter like ships. They're hard enough to take out with Dreadnoughts, let alone the rag tag bunch of ships I have capable of coming to my colonies aid. They easily overwhelm the defences and destroy the colony.
Oh, and in case you're wondering the reason it's an encounter in deep space is because I set out to intercept them. Whenever you see incoming hostiles you need to decide whether to engage in system or attempt a space interception. Battles in orbit reduce the morale of your people, and stray shots or deliberate attacks can damage the colony. On the other hand, any defence satellites or space bases will be present in the battle, and your colonies' defence missiles will fire in your support. Engaging in deep space loses these benefits, but it also removes the risk of collateral damage to the colony. It's particularly important in my war against the Liir - due to their unique propulsion mechanism Liir ships are slower and more cumbersome inside a gravity well such as a planet, while being the fastest and most manoeuvrable ships in deep space. Now that they're chucking biological weapons around engaging at a planet may well see me lose the colony to plague regardless of whether I win or lose.
  My scientists have been working on a top secret project which I hope will reduce the length of this war. Time to make sushi ....