Religion Thread

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I'm actually kind of disappointed at the large amounts of misinformation people are believing here.

Confession isn't something that the Church uses to subordinate people or uses for personal gain. They simply provide an easily-accessible avenue for it if people feel they need to articulate their feelings on what they feel they've done wrong to someone. For the most part, Confession is something which people are, canonically, very capable of doing themselves. The Church doesn't stand to gain much, or anything, from providing their services.

Original sin is, once again, more of a Lutheran, Protestant and Calvinist teaching. Catholicism doesn't purport original sin to being some guilt or fault which you need to join the Church to cleanse immediately. Rather, "original sin" represents the duality of human nature - whereas on one hand humans have a tendency to do good, they may also have the tendency to do evil. That's it.

And yes, most poisonous courtesan, I will explain indulgences, by saying that the Catholic Church is a very human institution. It's certainly far from perfect. The problem is when people mistake the Catholic Church for totally and fully representing Catholicism. The Church itself is not immune to making mistakes.

Das Knecht, I find your views both disappointingly ill-informed and revolting.

 

[Bromden]

I'm actually kind of disappointed at the large amounts of misinformation people are believing here.

Confession isn't something that the Church uses to subordinate people or uses for personal gain. They simply provide an easily-accessible avenue for it if people feel they need to articulate their feelings on what they feel they've done wrong to someone. For the most part, Confession is something which people are, canonically, very capable of doing themselves. The Church doesn't stand to gain much, or anything, from providing their services.

Yeah, the profit comes from the church tax, donations and from real estates.

Original sin is, once again, more of a Lutheran, Protestant and Calvinist teaching. Catholicism doesn't purport original sin to being some guilt or fault which you need to join the Church to cleanse immediately. Rather, "original sin" represents the duality of human nature - whereas on one hand humans have a tendency to do good, they may also have the tendency to do evil. That's it.

Original sin was always about Adam's and Eve's failure in the face of God, and it's hereditary. No shady duality crap can change that.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Yeah, the profit comes from the church tax, donations and from real estates.

None of which have anything to do with Confession supposedly being a sinister mind-control technique.

Original sin was always about Adam's and Eve's failure in the face of God, and it's hereditary. No shady duality crap can change that.

You're right, I should just phone up the Vatican and tell them to call it off, some random internet douche just uncovered the secret we've been keeping that original sin really is a hereditary disease that nobody else has ever figured out yet.

 

[Mad Vader]

I think the misunderstanding here is between what you believe the Catholic Church should be and what it sometimes is in real life.
As any such organization, it could use its beliefs both to improve human lives and to make them miserable.

For atheists, it's beside the point what it could do well, as we don't need to literally believe in archaic fairy tales to tell right from wrong and we can rely on intimate friends (and shrinks far more qualified than priests) to share our inner-most feelings and act on them in ways far more constructive than prayers, fasts and other ancient rituals.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I think the misunderstanding here is between what you believe the Catholic Church should be and what it sometimes is in real life.
As any such organization, it could use its beliefs both to improve human lives and to make them miserable.

For atheists, it's beside the point what it could do well, as we don't need to literally believe in archaic fairy tales to tell right from wrong and we can rely on intimate friends (and shrinks far more qualified than priests) to share our inner-most feelings and act on them in ways far more constructive than prayers, fasts and other ancient rituals.

And once more, I think your misunderstanding is thinking that the Church and Catholicism itself are irrevocably intertwined. And yes, the Catholic Church certainly could do better, but as I said, it's a human institution, and thus it's prone to have flaws, and being such a big organization, these flaws can be very, very apparent.

And no, you don't necessarily need to believe in "archaic fairy tales" to know right from wrong. The Church itself is very clear on that. And besides, only fools literally believe in them.

 

[romandude]

Well I suppose I'll post here because I'm bored.

I was a catholic as a young child, and then I became atheist for a while, now I'm sort of christian/agnostic. I say christian/agnostic because I don't go to church and I believe many things that are contrary to Catholic beliefs. A good example is that I don't see god as a creator or destroyer, but more so watcher.

I generally try to avoid religious discussions though. I hate atheist that hate religion and I hate religious people that hate atheists, and threads like this tend to attract those kinds of people. So before I get caught up in a flame war...

Spoiler

 

[Sir Saladin]

Right, just keep changing the beliefs of your church and say it was always like that. Lutherans didn't invent the idea that everyone is born into sin, Hawk dude.

The Catholics have always believed that you will go to Hell unless you accept Jesus as your savior no matter what else you do, it's kind of like the most important part of Christian belief.
Buddhist, Hindus, atheists, Muslims, and anyone else who doesn't listen to the Pope will go to Catholic Hell when they die even if they act really nice. This is why it was so important to burn all of the writings of the people on Easter Island and reform the devil worshipping Indians in the Americas and stamp out their history.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Right, just keep changing the beliefs of your church and say it was always like that. Lutherans didn't invent the idea that everyone is born into sin, Hawk dude.

The Catholics have always believed that you will go to Hell unless you accept Jesus as your savior no matter what else you do, it's kind of like the most important part of Christian belief.
Buddhist, Hindus, atheists, Muslims, and anyone else who doesn't listen to the Pope will go to Catholic Hell when they die even if they act really nice. This is why it was so important to burn all of the writings of the people on Easter Island and reform the devil worshipping Indians in the Americas and stamp out their history.

I'm not going to say it was always like that, because it wasn't, and in the past there were long periods of time where certain things were accepted as true that are, thankfully, no longer accepted as such due to some theological reforms.

But yeah, I guess I better get Francis I on the line again, people just keep figuring our schemes out!

 

[Chechen!]

I hate atheist that hate religion and I hate religious people that hate atheists, and threads like this tend to attract those kinds of people.

Why do I always have to point out hipocricy?

 

[Sir Saladin]

Did you see Pope Francis cast the demons out of that guy in the wheelchair? He needs to work on his act, I'll bet Jesus would have had him leap out of the chair and do the Charleston.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Did you see Pope Francis cast the demons out of that guy in the wheelchair? He needs to work on his act, I'll bet Jesus would have had him leap out of the chair and do the Charleston.

The Church doesn't have the SFX budget for that anymore.

 

[Captured Joe]

And besides, only fools literally believe in them.

I am one of those fools.

The Catholics have always believed that you will go to Hell unless you accept Jesus as your savior no matter what else you do, it's kind of like the most important part of Christian belief.
Buddhist, Hindus, atheists, Muslims, and anyone else who doesn't listen to the Pope will go to Catholic Hell when they die even if they act really nice. This is why it was so important to burn all of the writings of the people on Easter Island and reform the devil worshipping Indians in the Americas and stamp out their history.

The Catholic Church has officially established that NOBODY can tell if a certain person goes to hell or is in hell.
I personally believe, with the room my religion gives me to, that most people go through pergatory into heaven after they die, if only they are good persons.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

And besides, only fools literally believe in them.

I am one of those fools.

I was talking about the Old Testament, which I'm assuming were the ancient fairy tales which Vader was referring to.

 

[Captured Joe]

I am still a fool then.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

You literally believe every word in the Old Testament?

 

[Kobrag]

I am still a fool then.

So you don't eat shellfish?

 

[Captured Joe]

I guess so

 

[Kobrag]

You would shackle your wife,  beat her with sticks and force her to cover her hair?

 

[Captured Joe]

Of course not. I may be a silly religious idealist, but I'm not a retard.

 

[Kobrag]

Then the old testament is retarded. #caseclosed.