Yeah, they look good.
Especially the last one^^
Especially the last one^^
pictures of historical accurate replicas needed (weapons, armors, etc.)
- Thread starter BrustwarzenLenny
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Users who are viewing this thread
olla podrida
Regular
Honestly, bad craftmanship in the anglosaxon age would look way better then modern bad craftmanship. 
Also keep in mind that iron in this age is as valueable as silver today. They didn't give it to people who could't work it well. As patterns, they although i realy like the beak axe, are to my mind not usefull for this mod. Non of it fits in the period or does resemble anything near the mods period, sorry.
I think this mod has a great potential. But we can only add to it if we try to keek it as accurately as possible in it's historical correctness.
All the diskussions going on here about a more realistic fighting system or how we can enhance the immersion of the mod will not bring us far if we give the modelmakers pictures of items which actually have nothing to do with the period of the mod. It is a waste of their worktime. Later on in the mods developement they will realize that some things they made are not usefull at all and will have to remove them in order to create a more accurate portrait of their period.
So we can try to save them time and dig out something usefull. This is a lot of work sometimes, especially if you want to find something which is backed up by archeological evidence. Most of the recreations you will find in the internet are tagged with adjectives like "historically correct", or "viking age" or "authentic", "anglo saxon" or even "vendel period" but most of this stuff you will find is crap made to be selled to people who don't know what they are looking for. These tags are comercial lies.
It takes a lot of effort and study to know the difference between accurate reproductions of actual archeological finds and foresaid crap. So it would be easier for us if we would only upload pictures of original items. This wouldn't help the modders though, interpreting archeological evidence is difficult, too.
That's why this topic exists.
So all we can do is look carefully and try to find archeological evidence for the stuff we pick up in the net and only post something of which we we are halfway sure it existed in the timeframe of the mod (636 +- 50 years).
At least that is how I see it. I don't know how the people who actually make this mod think about this and how strict they want to be about historical correctness. I'm just a biased archeologist
A good webpage for reference about this timeframe is the regia anglorum webpage: http://www.regia.org/listings.htm
But keep in mind that reenactors have different goals, options and possibilities then us. E.g. they want to "mock"fight with their weapons and often their fighting gear does not correspond totally with the arms of the actual anglosaxons (they wanted kill with theirs weapons). When they recreate something they have to know how it was made and also pay for it, e.g. patternwelded blades and gold covered helmets and belts or rich stiched silk tunics...
But nontheless a very good source.
Btw, some pictures I wanted to add here:
A comparatively good sourcce for replicas of helmets from the 7th century is the polish manufacturer Thorkil.
http://www.thorkil.pl/dark_ages_helmets.htm
but even his very intricate helmets are simplified often and don't have the almandin and gold funishings of the originals.
Some threads from myarmoury about vendel time swords with many nice black/white pictures of the hilts:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10822&highlight=valsgarde
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16235&highlight=valsgarde
Also some more spangenhelms of type Baldenheim
And a nice swedish lancehead further down in this discussion:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20457&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Also keep in mind that iron in this age is as valueable as silver today. They didn't give it to people who could't work it well. As patterns, they although i realy like the beak axe, are to my mind not usefull for this mod. Non of it fits in the period or does resemble anything near the mods period, sorry.
I think this mod has a great potential. But we can only add to it if we try to keek it as accurately as possible in it's historical correctness.
All the diskussions going on here about a more realistic fighting system or how we can enhance the immersion of the mod will not bring us far if we give the modelmakers pictures of items which actually have nothing to do with the period of the mod. It is a waste of their worktime. Later on in the mods developement they will realize that some things they made are not usefull at all and will have to remove them in order to create a more accurate portrait of their period.
So we can try to save them time and dig out something usefull. This is a lot of work sometimes, especially if you want to find something which is backed up by archeological evidence. Most of the recreations you will find in the internet are tagged with adjectives like "historically correct", or "viking age" or "authentic", "anglo saxon" or even "vendel period" but most of this stuff you will find is crap made to be selled to people who don't know what they are looking for. These tags are comercial lies.
It takes a lot of effort and study to know the difference between accurate reproductions of actual archeological finds and foresaid crap. So it would be easier for us if we would only upload pictures of original items. This wouldn't help the modders though, interpreting archeological evidence is difficult, too.
That's why this topic exists.
So all we can do is look carefully and try to find archeological evidence for the stuff we pick up in the net and only post something of which we we are halfway sure it existed in the timeframe of the mod (636 +- 50 years).
At least that is how I see it. I don't know how the people who actually make this mod think about this and how strict they want to be about historical correctness. I'm just a biased archeologist
A good webpage for reference about this timeframe is the regia anglorum webpage: http://www.regia.org/listings.htm
But keep in mind that reenactors have different goals, options and possibilities then us. E.g. they want to "mock"fight with their weapons and often their fighting gear does not correspond totally with the arms of the actual anglosaxons (they wanted kill with theirs weapons). When they recreate something they have to know how it was made and also pay for it, e.g. patternwelded blades and gold covered helmets and belts or rich stiched silk tunics...
But nontheless a very good source.
Btw, some pictures I wanted to add here:
A comparatively good sourcce for replicas of helmets from the 7th century is the polish manufacturer Thorkil.
http://www.thorkil.pl/dark_ages_helmets.htm
but even his very intricate helmets are simplified often and don't have the almandin and gold funishings of the originals.
Some threads from myarmoury about vendel time swords with many nice black/white pictures of the hilts:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10822&highlight=valsgarde
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16235&highlight=valsgarde
Also some more spangenhelms of type Baldenheim
And a nice swedish lancehead further down in this discussion:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20457&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Spongly
Knight
While it's nice to have elaborate funeral gear from the dark ages, I would say it's more important to have good basic looking gear. While a king might well wield something like the Sutton Hoo sword and wear a Vendel style helm, I think your average well equipped teulu or gesitha would be more likely to wield something like these
and wear a helm more like this
As for most soldiers, what's really needed is a better variety of plain tunics similar to the native shirts but in various colours with different cloaks, belts, tablet woven braids and so on. Most warriors in this period would fight entirely without armour, with only a shield for defence. There's already a lot of models of metal armour, there should be more tunics for lightly armoured folks.
and wear a helm more like this
As for most soldiers, what's really needed is a better variety of plain tunics similar to the native shirts but in various colours with different cloaks, belts, tablet woven braids and so on. Most warriors in this period would fight entirely without armour, with only a shield for defence. There's already a lot of models of metal armour, there should be more tunics for lightly armoured folks.
olla podrida
Regular
Yeah, you're right. I've also put some more simple swordhilts into the thread. (Although the blades would be pattern welded, too )
Also the spatha called spatha in the mod is good enough (albeit it is the only fitting sword in the mod yet).
Nontheless the more elaborate stuff is what the player will use and deal with. The lords he will speak and cooperate with will wear the stuff, too.
So I find it sensible to give a good variety of this posh stuff.
I would like to see some more tunics as well.
Here is a german webpage about early 7th century tunics
http://www.die-bajuwaren.de/Wir_ueber_uns_frame.htm
Pictures of typical frankish style decorated tunics:
From the same side, some pictures of a nice pattern welded ring spatha:
http://www.die-bajuwaren.de/Wir_ueber_uns_frame.htm
Nontheless the more elaborate stuff is what the player will use and deal with.
PS: Spongly, do you know from when the pioneer helmet is which you posted?
PPS: Here is a russian source side about different helmets:
http://asgard.tgorod.ru/libri.php?cont=_vendel4
It includes the pioneer helmet, but no exact dating.
PPPS: Yet another russian webpage about the helmet, thistyme with interesting english textscans:
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=31209
)Also the spatha called spatha in the mod is good enough (albeit it is the only fitting sword in the mod yet).
Nontheless the more elaborate stuff is what the player will use and deal with. The lords he will speak and cooperate with will wear the stuff, too.
So I find it sensible to give a good variety of this posh stuff.
I would like to see some more tunics as well.
Here is a german webpage about early 7th century tunics
http://www.die-bajuwaren.de/Wir_ueber_uns_frame.htm
Pictures of typical frankish style decorated tunics:
From the same side, some pictures of a nice pattern welded ring spatha:
http://www.die-bajuwaren.de/Wir_ueber_uns_frame.htm
Nontheless the more elaborate stuff is what the player will use and deal with.
PS: Spongly, do you know from when the pioneer helmet is which you posted?
PPS: Here is a russian source side about different helmets:
http://asgard.tgorod.ru/libri.php?cont=_vendel4
It includes the pioneer helmet, but no exact dating.
PPPS: Yet another russian webpage about the helmet, thistyme with interesting english textscans:
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=31209
Tchan
Veteran
What other kind of weapons did they use? Im thinking of the cheap materials, was bronze ever used? I read somewhere that the bronze 'dried up' because of a lack of tin, or at any rate the breakdown of international trade that supplied the materials to make bronze?
Hmm i guess im looking for alternatives, to flesh out the item repertoire.
Hmm i guess im looking for alternatives, to flesh out the item repertoire.
olla podrida
Regular
Jepp, towards the beginning of the iron age, the tinmines in Spain were exausted and they started to mix lead into the alloy, which made it brittle... one of the reasons for the increased use of iron in the beginning of the 9th century BC.
But thats along time away from our period.
The weapons used by poorer warriors would be basicly the same as the weapons of kings and lords. Spears, lances and seaxes. Swords were expensive but not that uncommon. Franciscas would have been used mainly by the Jutes of Kent, which had a strong bond to the frankish empire on the continent.
Utility axes would have been used as weapons, too.
I have some jutelandish axes from Nydam on my pc, but I need to upload them somewhere first.
The only weapon of defense for the simple man would have been the shield. And those have been served well enough i think.
What I would love to see are some longer seaxes with maybe 60 or 70 reach, they were popular with the franks and the jutes, too.
But thats along time away from our period.
The weapons used by poorer warriors would be basicly the same as the weapons of kings and lords. Spears, lances and seaxes. Swords were expensive but not that uncommon. Franciscas would have been used mainly by the Jutes of Kent, which had a strong bond to the frankish empire on the continent.
Utility axes would have been used as weapons, too.
I have some jutelandish axes from Nydam on my pc, but I need to upload them somewhere first.
The only weapon of defense for the simple man would have been the shield. And those have been served well enough i think.
What I would love to see are some longer seaxes with maybe 60 or 70 reach, they were popular with the franks and the jutes, too.
Spongly
Knight
Bronze wasn't cheaper than iron in the iron age - part of the reason people switched to iron is that it doesn't require as many imported materials (especially tin) which makes it much more plentiful than bronze.
Tin was still plentiful in Britain (Cornwall) but iron ore was much easier to get hold of than good bronze.
Tin was still plentiful in Britain (Cornwall) but iron ore was much easier to get hold of than good bronze.
olla podrida
Regular
As I said, tin was scarce towards the end of the bronzeage and the early iron age, thats why they started to make weapons out of iron, see the Gündlingen and Mindelheim swords, or the earlier Möringen wich have often only ceremonial use ( the blades are mostly lead bronze and would break with the first few hits)
The tin mines in Cornwell were far away from the mediterranean and could not meet the demand of whole western europe and the mediterranean without the spanish ores.
So the coincidence of the development of a new technology and a decreasing effectivity of an old technology produces a new era. Something our society could also hope for today.
But a bit OT here...
The tin mines in Cornwell were far away from the mediterranean and could not meet the demand of whole western europe and the mediterranean without the spanish ores.
So the coincidence of the development of a new technology and a decreasing effectivity of an old technology produces a new era. Something our society could also hope for today.
But a bit OT here...
i dont have any pics of weapons but i read too many books on medieval and dark ages.
reading these authors gives a nice background on the livelihood of the era that influence certain equipments.
should read Bernard Cornwell's series on Uther, a englishman kid turned danish and back. al; around 800 ad. but in dark ages those 100 years dont really make too much difference in equipment.
one key thing is that armor is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. even a very good soldier is rare to have a chainmail. like out of maybe an army of 1000, 250 would be like....professional fulltime solders, where even then MAYBE 50 have chain mails.
most warriors dont have helmets or leather caps. even warlords have simple helmets, or atleast something like that Briton Helmet. and maybe a rare intricate helmet.
armor at this time wasnt too...special, no real special smith or definite style other than improvisation of broken equips. they concentrated on mass on shield wall.
shield walls, were impossible to crush most of the time, people held shield high and waits for the opponent to strike and then they counter.
but a big thing is the feet, the only vulnerable part, thats were they attack. cheap but its war. so some people...hide...metal strips inside their leather...pants or w.e. to provoke an attack but does no damage but leaves the enemy vulnerable after.
i cant really suggest much armor-wise but just read books and see the style of fighting at the time that make some weapons more wanted than others.
most danes/vikings i guess, fight with non sleeves on sometimes, to show armbands or just for flexibility.
AND people dont fight in capes. in the way, tangle, tripping, and enemy can grasp it to fight.
reading these authors gives a nice background on the livelihood of the era that influence certain equipments.
should read Bernard Cornwell's series on Uther, a englishman kid turned danish and back. al; around 800 ad. but in dark ages those 100 years dont really make too much difference in equipment.
one key thing is that armor is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. even a very good soldier is rare to have a chainmail. like out of maybe an army of 1000, 250 would be like....professional fulltime solders, where even then MAYBE 50 have chain mails.
most warriors dont have helmets or leather caps. even warlords have simple helmets, or atleast something like that Briton Helmet. and maybe a rare intricate helmet.
armor at this time wasnt too...special, no real special smith or definite style other than improvisation of broken equips. they concentrated on mass on shield wall.
shield walls, were impossible to crush most of the time, people held shield high and waits for the opponent to strike and then they counter.
but a big thing is the feet, the only vulnerable part, thats were they attack. cheap but its war. so some people...hide...metal strips inside their leather...pants or w.e. to provoke an attack but does no damage but leaves the enemy vulnerable after.
i cant really suggest much armor-wise but just read books and see the style of fighting at the time that make some weapons more wanted than others.
most danes/vikings i guess, fight with non sleeves on sometimes, to show armbands or just for flexibility.
AND people dont fight in capes. in the way, tangle, tripping, and enemy can grasp it to fight.
Morcant
Sergeant at Arms
I second Spongly, some variations of the Wollaston helmets would be very good to have in.
Your swords and the viking helmet are of 9-10th century date
To Gwanjun: armor was rare, but not that rare, there were likely enough around for noblemen and their retainers. We of course have few archaeological finds, but that scarcity is no proof of anything. A few centuries later, the Carolingian empire had a very evolved military, yet we do not of a single find of carolingian helmet.
Weapon smith were very valuated in both germanic and brittonic societies. Take the mythological character of Wayland for exemple.
Shieldwalls are overrated. I like Cornwell's books, but they are not history books, and he tends to insist much on shieldwall. The warriors were not formed in a dense formation all the time, but only on occasion when needed. Most of the time they would keep enough space between men to use their weapons efficiently. A dense shieldwall with overlapping shields is something you will do to repel a charge for exemple.
Your swords and the viking helmet are of 9-10th century date
To Gwanjun: armor was rare, but not that rare, there were likely enough around for noblemen and their retainers. We of course have few archaeological finds, but that scarcity is no proof of anything. A few centuries later, the Carolingian empire had a very evolved military, yet we do not of a single find of carolingian helmet.
Weapon smith were very valuated in both germanic and brittonic societies. Take the mythological character of Wayland for exemple.
Shieldwalls are overrated. I like Cornwell's books, but they are not history books, and he tends to insist much on shieldwall. The warriors were not formed in a dense formation all the time, but only on occasion when needed. Most of the time they would keep enough space between men to use their weapons efficiently. A dense shieldwall with overlapping shields is something you will do to repel a charge for exemple.
Rathmor
Regular
Olla Podrida, i'm making the cologne helm do you have any other sources for images of this helm?
Everything is fine except for the cheekplate. It is rounded at the top but i'm not sure how far the curve continues down.
If i dont hear anything ill keep the cheekplate curved.
Oh, i made the wollaston helm by the way.
Everything is fine except for the cheekplate. It is rounded at the top but i'm not sure how far the curve continues down.
If i dont hear anything ill keep the cheekplate curved.
Oh, i made the wollaston helm by the way.
Morcant
Sergeant at Arms
Here some:
I think the mail neckguard is part of the renovation, shame they used butted mail instead of good old alterned plain and riveted rings.
And something you may like, a leather covered helmet by one of my thuringian friends at Old Sarum last summer:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012494.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012491.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012486.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012426.jpg
I think the mail neckguard is part of the renovation, shame they used butted mail instead of good old alterned plain and riveted rings.
And something you may like, a leather covered helmet by one of my thuringian friends at Old Sarum last summer:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012494.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012491.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012486.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Morcant_Gawr/Old%20Sarum%202010%202d%20part/P1012426.jpg
Morcant
Sergeant at Arms
Beware, huge reference thread next. Stuff from SoT research.
Sorry is some of that stuff have already been done!
GERMANIC WEAPONS, CLOTHING & ARMOR
FIGURINES OF GERMANIC WARRIORS
GAELIC WEAPONS & ARMOR
GAELIC FIGURINES (very good inspiration for clothing and shields).
PICTISH STUFF (mostly figurines and units from good TW mods)
BRITTONIC REFERENCE PICTURES
Scale armor or lorica squamata. Scales have to be small, made from bronze or iron (perhaps tinned). The lower parts could be replaced by pteruges, than can cover the shoulder aswell, bands of leather or cloth.
http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/other/ScaleArmor/Arthur640x480.jpg
Another nice look, especially with the cloack and penannular brooch. Forget about the breeches and shoes however.
Exemple of thoracomachus:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925405
The wide belt is not needed. You can have a variation with leather bands (pteryges) on the shoulders aswell. The model could be a good basis for doing variation with mail or scale armor over the thora.
Another one (on myself):
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925839
This one is not leather covered. Just make if there was no odd white tunic but only the closer fitting one underneath (I use that dirty tunic just to keep the other one clean from the mail).
Some wonderful germanic shields:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925579
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925598
CIVIL GARNMENTS AND CLOTHING
Sorry is some of that stuff have already been done!
GERMANIC WEAPONS, CLOTHING & ARMOR
Germanic swords
Spangenhelm
Different model.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3710/casque0500.jpg
Very rich one:
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/44b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/spangenhelm_Chalon_eng.htm
Saxon boar helmet
A must-have, the Wollaston helmet. Could have a variant with mail neckguard, and eventually lessblack.
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89154534.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=62659607.jpg
http://www.georgetowncollege.edu/Departmen...ages/HELMET.JPG
Saxon battle axe
Axe in (d), it would be a single hand axe.
Frankish axehammer
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/555/arzondivers.jpg
Several axe heads. First one is good, it could be a 1h/2h weapon.
Cavalry axe
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9941/asaxes.th.jpg
See in D. Note that it is not that massive. The shaft could be iron or wood.
Germanic shields
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/506206859_67988c88fc.jpg
The Angle shield would be quite small, with a specific shaped shieldboss.
Several shieldboss variants (they lack the rivets which are quite big):
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...-alleman-sw.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...achsen_ohne.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil..._merowinger.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...hildb-spitz.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...anisch-hoch.jpg
Geatish and Scylding helmet
http://www.viking-shield.com/A1040.jpg
http://www.viking-shield.com/A1040b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/43b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/43d.jpg
More: http://www.thorkil.pl/Vendel_14_helmet.htm
http://www.globaleffects.com/B_pages/03_Ar...del_B_01_hi.jpg
http://www.globaleffects.com/B_pages/03_Ar...del_A_01_hi.jpg
Kaftan
A garnment of oriental origin. It could also be a civil garnment.
Here a padded version that could be armor:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ShX6RJ2iabY/SGy7-EPY...les08%20024.jpg
Some Gesithas from Weorod group:
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images0...d2d4413fa42.jpg
Spangenhelm
Different model.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3710/casque0500.jpg
Very rich one:
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/44b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/spangenhelm_Chalon_eng.htm
Saxon boar helmet
A must-have, the Wollaston helmet. Could have a variant with mail neckguard, and eventually lessblack.
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89154534.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=62659607.jpg
http://www.georgetowncollege.edu/Departmen...ages/HELMET.JPG
Saxon battle axe
Axe in (d), it would be a single hand axe.
Frankish axehammer
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/555/arzondivers.jpg
Several axe heads. First one is good, it could be a 1h/2h weapon.
Cavalry axe
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9941/asaxes.th.jpg
See in D. Note that it is not that massive. The shaft could be iron or wood.
Germanic shields
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/506206859_67988c88fc.jpg
The Angle shield would be quite small, with a specific shaped shieldboss.
Several shieldboss variants (they lack the rivets which are quite big):
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...-alleman-sw.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...achsen_ohne.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil..._merowinger.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...hildb-spitz.jpg
http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/Bil...anisch-hoch.jpg
Geatish and Scylding helmet
http://www.viking-shield.com/A1040.jpg
http://www.viking-shield.com/A1040b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/43b.jpg
http://www.thorkil.pl/platnerstwo/helmy/wczesne/43d.jpg
More: http://www.thorkil.pl/Vendel_14_helmet.htm
http://www.globaleffects.com/B_pages/03_Ar...del_B_01_hi.jpg
http://www.globaleffects.com/B_pages/03_Ar...del_A_01_hi.jpg
Kaftan
A garnment of oriental origin. It could also be a civil garnment.
Here a padded version that could be armor:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ShX6RJ2iabY/SGy7-EPY...les08%20024.jpg
Some Gesithas from Weorod group:
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images0...d2d4413fa42.jpg
FIGURINES OF GERMANIC WARRIORS
GAELIC WEAPONS & ARMOR
I thought it would be better for the next items to be worked on in the mod, if separate threads for each culture were done. So this is the Gaelic one.
Gaelic chest armor
This would be a round or square bronze plate, with baldrics, worn over a padded or leather armor.
A good concept from a EB unit:
Gaelic helmet
Simply a bronze or iron bowl helmet (you can do both version), a bit pointy.
Concepts from EB:
Variant from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
Gaelic large sword
A quite short but large sword. This is the archeological piece, a bit worn.
Now imagine the sides of the blades straight, not worn out. For the hilt you can go for something like this, made from bone or wood:
Drawing by Dan Shadrake from Barbarian warriors: Saxons, Vikings and Normans
Total lenght of the blade would be 40 to 50cm (a bit the same like a gladius blade).
Scabbard would be made of wood and leather covered, quite simple. No metal fittings.
Gaelic sword
This would be a short sword, around 40cm of blade lenght.
A good concept would be the first sword from the left here:
Drawing by Dan Shadrake from Barbarian warriors: Saxons, Vikings and Normans
Bone would be made from bone or wood.
Note that the other swords displayed here can be good too for longer swords, with same kind of hilt.
Darts
Some good darts with this unit from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'. Darts would be light javelins easily carried by light infantry.
Boiled leather helmets
Good one from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
Gaelic round shields
Good ones from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
Gaelic chest armor
This would be a round or square bronze plate, with baldrics, worn over a padded or leather armor.
A good concept from a EB unit:
Gaelic helmet
Simply a bronze or iron bowl helmet (you can do both version), a bit pointy.
Concepts from EB:
Variant from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
Gaelic large sword
A quite short but large sword. This is the archeological piece, a bit worn.
Drawing by Dan Shadrake from Barbarian warriors: Saxons, Vikings and Normans
Total lenght of the blade would be 40 to 50cm (a bit the same like a gladius blade).
Scabbard would be made of wood and leather covered, quite simple. No metal fittings.
Gaelic sword
This would be a short sword, around 40cm of blade lenght.
A good concept would be the first sword from the left here:
Drawing by Dan Shadrake from Barbarian warriors: Saxons, Vikings and Normans
Note that the other swords displayed here can be good too for longer swords, with same kind of hilt.
Darts
Some good darts with this unit from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'. Darts would be light javelins easily carried by light infantry.
Boiled leather helmets
Good one from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
Gaelic round shields
Good ones from M2TW mod 'The Last Kingdom'.
GAELIC FIGURINES (very good inspiration for clothing and shields).
Small pictures but excellent garnments and good shields.
1- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR01.jpg
2- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR02.jpg
3- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR03.jpg
4- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR04.jpg
5- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR05.jpg
6- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR06.jpg
7- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR07.jpg
8- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR07.jpg
9- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR08.jpg
1- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR01.jpg
2- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR02.jpg
3- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR03.jpg
4- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR04.jpg
5- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR05.jpg
6- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR06.jpg
7- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR07.jpg
8- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR07.jpg
9- http://www.grippingbeast.com/sizeimage.php...tos/newIR08.jpg
PICTISH STUFF (mostly figurines and units from good TW mods)
To begin, a few concepts that could be quite useful to work with (originally posted on TWC IBFD 2 forum).
1st character: interesting helmet, clothing and scale armor.
2nd character: interesting clothing.
Clothing, helms and shields interesting. Also the axes.
Interesting clothing.
Interesting clothing and shields. The cloack worn over torso (on tunic or armor) would be nice to have depicted in the mod.
Some stuff from Viking Total War (RTW mod), models by Empio ( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149477 ):
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....16&d=1207920623
Excellent shield.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....13&d=1207910897
Good shield and bowl helmet.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....49&d=1208266253
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....74&d=1208338182
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....77&d=1208349099
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....76&d=1208340844
Good helmets, shields and garnments.
1st character: interesting helmet, clothing and scale armor.
2nd character: interesting clothing.
Some stuff from Viking Total War (RTW mod), models by Empio ( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149477 ):
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....16&d=1207920623
Excellent shield.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....13&d=1207910897
Good shield and bowl helmet.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....49&d=1208266253
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....74&d=1208338182
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....77&d=1208349099
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment....76&d=1208340844
Good helmets, shields and garnments.
BRITTONIC REFERENCE PICTURES
A lot of new reference pictures.
Good except the banners.
Good except the banners.
Scale armor or lorica squamata. Scales have to be small, made from bronze or iron (perhaps tinned). The lower parts could be replaced by pteruges, than can cover the shoulder aswell, bands of leather or cloth.
http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/other/ScaleArmor/Arthur640x480.jpg
Another nice look, especially with the cloack and penannular brooch. Forget about the breeches and shoes however.
Exemple of thoracomachus:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925405
The wide belt is not needed. You can have a variation with leather bands (pteryges) on the shoulders aswell. The model could be a good basis for doing variation with mail or scale armor over the thora.
Another one (on myself):
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925839
This one is not leather covered. Just make if there was no odd white tunic but only the closer fitting one underneath (I use that dirty tunic just to keep the other one clean from the mail).
Some wonderful germanic shields:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925579
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278925598
CIVIL GARNMENTS AND CLOTHING
Germanic and Bernician 'peplos' female garnments:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278363125
A wide variety of anglo-saxon dress. You can have a lot of variation of colors and patterns (different for 'peplos' and undertunic)
Those various brooch would be worn as pairs on the shoulders:
Roman male dress:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278363267
Pictish women:
Character in 1: leine (ankle-lenght tunic) with or without this elaborated cloak. Several color variations can be made. For Gaels and Picts aristocrats.
A woman version can be made aswell.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278363125
A wide variety of anglo-saxon dress. You can have a lot of variation of colors and patterns (different for 'peplos' and undertunic)
Those various brooch would be worn as pairs on the shoulders:
Roman male dress:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/Mo...pg?t=1278363267
Pictish women:
Character in 1: leine (ankle-lenght tunic) with or without this elaborated cloak. Several color variations can be made. For Gaels and Picts aristocrats.
A woman version can be made aswell.
