Impressions 0.8

[mouthnhoof]

4. Do mercs only spawn in American towns? I don't recall seeing any in Mexican towns (0.7 also).

All mercs spawn outdoors. In American towns they are in the saloons, in Mexican towns they are near the churches (except for one, where they spawn by the water tower), in the Apache village they are near the entrance, and in the Comanche village they are at the rise in the center of town.

These are the companions not the mercenaries (CSA troops, gunslingers, indian scouts etc.)

 

[Shatari]

These are the companions not the mercenaries (CSA troops, gunslingers, indian scouts etc.)

Oh, right. Sorry, I misread that.

 

[azrael23]

I think the mod is massively improved over 0.7 however i think the troop wages are a bit excessive, I currently have a bill of $80+ and it can be hard to keep up with, my troops often go unpaid. Then I go get my weekly wage of $2.50 

 

[LeMoN]

I think the mod is massively improved over 0.7 however i think the troop wages are a bit excessive, I currently have a bill of $80+ and it can be hard to keep up with, my troops often go unpaid. Then I go get my weekly wage of $2.50 

I'm actually able to keep up with the wages, but I hardly have any money to buy anything for me (say a Spencer repeater). Also, were the prices on selling some loot and weapons tweaked down? It seems like I'm making less after the 0.8 update.

 

[Kitteh]

I think the mod is massively improved over 0.7 however i think the troop wages are a bit excessive, I currently have a bill of $80+ and it can be hard to keep up with, my troops often go unpaid. Then I go get my weekly wage of $2.50 

I'm actually able to keep up with the wages, but I hardly have any money to buy anything for me (say a Spencer repeater). Also, were the prices on selling some loot and weapons tweaked down? It seems like I'm making less after the 0.8 update.

you must be doing something wrong. I ended up with 300 dollars after just a few days killing looters, deserters, and imperialists and selling their loot. Try increasing your trade and loot skills.

 

[DivisionTwo]

I want to congratulate you guys on an excellent job - the latest patch has made the 1866 world feel a lot more alive. The new music in particular is fantastic! A huge, huge improvement on 0.7.
There is some constructive criticism I would like to put forward though. There are issues which, if improved upon, could (atleast in my opinion) make things even better.

-Firstly, weapon pricing. I feel buying the best weapons is too... easy. Less than an hour into a fresh game youll be able to afford one of the high end rifles. Affording the prized weapons like repeating Henry, Spencer and Winchester rifles should be an achievement. From the way I see it, the game would benefit a lot more by increasing the period of time where you simply cannot afford the high end stuff and are limited to pistols and cheap carbines.
There are currently a lot of weapons in the game which just end up unused because a superior alternative just isnt a lot harder to get a hold of. The Smith & Wesson Model 1/2, Colt Pocket Police, Colt M1851, Colt M1849 and Kirschbaum are just a few of the names which immediately come to mind. And thats just from the pistols.
An interesting experiment may be to make the prices of weapons in stores super-inflated, making you have to rely early on on whatever weapons you can scavenge from fights.

-Clothing is something id love to see expanded on. More varieties of boots, more hats, more suits, more little additions like chewing straw/cigarettes, some hyper-expensive varities of some clothes, etc. Small things like this make the game /that/ much better.

-I personally wouldnt mind seeing a lot more of Tull. Perhaps turn it into a zombie survival arena or something could be pretty cool.

-Something more to do in saloons could be pretty cool too. Making them more populated, challenging drunks to duels, and bailing out miserable gamblers out of debts are just some ideas.

-Oh, and just so you guys remember, the quest 'Cleaning up Cottonwood' needs completion Infact, more unique quests like this in different towns would be awesome.

Once again, awesome work dudes. Havent had this much fun with a mod (or game, for that matter) for quite a long time.

 

[LCJr]

I haven't noticed any lag yet in 0.8 but I don't think I've had all the maps yet.  With 0.7 I don't think the lag was a graphics issue. If the M&B framer counter is accurate I was dropping at 2-8 fps below vsync and still it on some maps it acted like a single digit fps slideshow.  The two maps  in 0.7 that gave me trouble were the heavily wooded hunting scene and the stagecoach attack on the canyon bridge.  With the bridge I'm pretty sure it was pathfinding and the initial spawn time was much longer than normal.

Wages haven't been a problem in 0.8 thanks to the abundance of enemies.

Like the tweaks to the weapon stats and the new ammo system.  The bleeding works well and having a bad guy double up has saved my butt in a few tight spots.

The Ball Carbine seems underpriced to me.  Should be closer to the Spencer's price.

The AI and companions are doing better in battle thanks to more rifles and higher starting companion skills.  In 0.7 I was doing the majority of the killing. With 0.8 I'm actually having to put a little effort into getting my share of xp.

If I really wanted to nitpick I'd point out metallic cartridges at this time used copper cases.  Brass is more pleasing to the eye though.

There are currently a lot of weapons in the game which just end up unused because a superior alternative just isnt a lot harder to get a hold of.

Everyone has different tastes and priorities when choosing weapons so variety is good.  Besides you need to have some 'inferior' weapons for the lower grade troops.

 

[insomniac]

I didn't played much but i agree about the guns issue.

I fought small parties and i got ball carbine and remington army as loot.

Also the loot from some parties are too much. I have no problem with economy and i think economy is no more challenging in this version becuase of abundance of loots. I suspect this is due to the new added parties.

But it is not a bad thing for a beta release, all the people will test all the weapons without having to cheat. But i think not suitable for final release. Buying some guns should be harder and it must be an achievement.

 

[mouthnhoof]

...
-Firstly, weapon pricing. I feel buying the best weapons is too... easy. Less than an hour into a fresh game youll be able to afford one of the high end rifles. Affording the prized weapons like repeating Henry, Spencer and Winchester rifles should be an achievement. From the way I see it, the game would benefit a lot more by increasing the period of time where you simply cannot afford the high end stuff and are limited to pistols and cheap carbines.
There are currently a lot of weapons in the game which just end up unused because a superior alternative just isnt a lot harder to get a hold of. The Smith & Wesson Model 1/2, Colt Pocket Police, Colt M1851, Colt M1849 and Kirschbaum are just a few of the names which immediately come to mind. And thats just from the pistols.
An interesting experiment may be to make the prices of weapons in stores super-inflated, making you have to rely early on on whatever weapons you can scavenge from fights.
...

You have to remember that loot is more or less realistic - that is you get what the troops you defeated were using. Inflating prices means that you also get more money from selling loot, unless these are a few rare items you will not normally find on enemies. Unlike most other mods, the economic challenge 1866 is to maintain high end troops in your company, not buying the most expensive gear. I must say I rather like it this way.

The gear itself is not cheap either. Yes, to get that specific piece I want is not hard (if you find it in the store), but to fully equip all your companions (could be quite a bunch in 0. in the way that you really want takes a lot of time and money.

 

[Peralta]

How about making gun appearance dependant on the calendar?

For example: the ratio Winchester 66/other guns= 0.01 at day 1.
The Winchester became more popular over the next years, so the ratio should go up.
So the Winchester/other ratio goes up with 0.01 every week during the first year, and with 0.02 from the second year on.

The same could be done for other weapons that were deemed new in those days, and the opposite should go for older guns.

 

[yellowmosquito]

How about making gun appearance dependant on the calendar?

For example: the ratio Winchester 66/other guns= 0.01 at day 1.
The Winchester became more popular over the next years, so the ratio should go up.
So the Winchester/other ratio goes up with 0.01 every week during the first year, and with 0.02 from the second year on.

The same could be done for other weapons that were deemed new in those days, and the opposite should go for older guns.

We talked about this for a while, but it became too complicated and we found that there were enough things to tackle as it was without that feature.

 

[Peralta]

How about making gun appearance dependant on the calendar?

For example: the ratio Winchester 66/other guns= 0.01 at day 1.
The Winchester became more popular over the next years, so the ratio should go up.
So the Winchester/other ratio goes up with 0.01 every week during the first year, and with 0.02 from the second year on.

The same could be done for other weapons that were deemed new in those days, and the opposite should go for older guns.

We talked about this for a while, but it became too complicated and we found that there were enough things to tackle as it was without that feature.

Does it mean this feature is in the "maybe in the future" section or in the "never gonna make it" section?

 

[yellowmosquito]

I'd prefer it to be in the "never gonna make it" category.  This feature would likely be very buggy and I think we could have a bigger impact on a different feature.  We'll see though.

 

[DrZaius]

Impressions for 0.8:

1. love the music. I especially like that it changes when you're in different territories. Really fits the feel and tone of the mod.
2. The Walker seems overpowered. Compared to the rest of the guns in the mod, which seem to have been toned down, the walker still packs a wallop with 51p. As much as I like a personal hand cannon (the sawn off shotgun is great, by the way), it runs into the issue of "why would I ever use a different gun". With the Spencer vs. the Winchester for example, you have to decide between speed (the Winchester) or stopping power (the Spencer). Despite the fact that the Walker's reload time is very slow compared to other pistols, it's still fast enough to get the job done, and makes it difficult to consider other pistols.
3. I like the concept of the stockpiling skill a lot- it solves a lot of the issues with ammo, except for not being able to equip a rifle, pistol, and melee weapon. Personally, when I feel I need all 3, such as when I'm playing a Cavalry Officer, I tend to leave the pistol with just it's 6 shots, as sort of a 'desperation' weapon.
4. The map is definitely fuller, and that's a great thing. One of the biggest gameplay problems was riding around looking for somebody to fight, and spending days just roaming around. While fine in some sense, going 20 minutes without a battle isn't what this type of game is about That said, it did force the player to invest heavily in spotting and trailblazing, to first see the target, and then ride him down. Now that the map is so full, I wonder if those skills will be worth slightly less.
5. I actually like that my companions aren't highly specialized into a specific skill set. While of course it would be handy to have a "doctor" and a "tracker", etc. I don't really mind putting those points in my character, and having my companions just be extra firepower.
6. As far as companions go, it would be nice if there was more than 1 spawn point in each city for the companions; if for example I wanted Doc Valentine, it'd be nice if I didn't have to hire a bunch of guys I didn't want just so a spawn point would open up for him in a few days.
7. Shotguns seem to work fine so far; the sawn off is only really effective "up close and personal", which I imagine is the intention. I haven't had a chance yet to try any of the others, but the drop off from damage at range looks good so far.

That's all I've got for now, keep up the great work!

-DrZaius

EDIT:  Forgot about the hats with hair! Absolutely love it; really helps keep the immersion of the mod (A cowboy has to have a hat!)

 

[Bro127]

I love the new version. I love the new weapon holding animation. I LOVE that you can now have hair with most hats. I like the new music and duel sounds. The new Alamo battle is better than the last, but it seems that the infantry men don't fire on mine. But besides that, GREAT Job guys.

Spoiler

Two replies were made as I was typing this!

Love the shotgun!

 

[mouthnhoof]

2. The Walker seems overpowered. Compared to the rest of the guns in the mod, which seem to have been toned down, the walker still packs a wallop with 51p. As much as I like a personal hand cannon (the sawn off shotgun is great, by the way), it runs into the issue of "why would I ever use a different gun". With the Spencer vs. the Winchester for example, you have to decide between speed (the Winchester) or stopping power (the Spencer). Despite the fact that the Walker's reload time is very slow compared to other pistols, it's still fast enough to get the job done, and makes it difficult to consider other pistols.

After playing the mod some more, I find that the pistols have been weakened too much. Pistoleers are much weaker than riflemen even at close ranges because they need too many hits to take anything down. On the 38 caliber guns this mean, more often than not, to reload in the middle. The high end of 40+ damage is fine, but the low damage tail of the distribution is too long: "Navy" guns should be in the 30-40 range and the smaller handguns 25-30. Just my "feel" of it. Also, shouldn't the 38s be a little more accurate than the 44s for the same model? Less recoil with similar muzzle velocity, but less stopping power. At least it will give some choice. It made the option of packing a 6 shot with no extra ammo near useless unless you take the Walker or Dragoon.

I forgot to comment previously on the new animations: EXCELLENT!

 

[corsairf4u]

I haven't noticed any lag yet in 0.8 but I don't think I've had all the maps yet.  With 0.7 I don't think the lag was a graphics issue. If the M&B framer counter is accurate I was dropping at 2-8 fps below vsync and still it on some maps it acted like a single digit fps slideshow.  The two maps  in 0.7 that gave me trouble were the heavily wooded hunting scene and the stagecoach attack on the canyon bridge.  With the bridge I'm pretty sure it was pathfinding and the initial spawn time was much longer than normal.

Wages haven't been a problem in 0.8 thanks to the abundance of enemies.

Like the tweaks to the weapon stats and the new ammo system.  The bleeding works well and having a bad guy double up has saved my butt in a few tight spots.

The Ball Carbine seems underpriced to me.  Should be closer to the Spencer's price.

The AI and companions are doing better in battle thanks to more rifles and higher starting companion skills.  In 0.7 I was doing the majority of the killing. With 0.8 I'm actually having to put a little effort into getting my share of xp.

If I really wanted to nitpick I'd point out metallic cartridges at this time used copper cases.  Brass is more pleasing to the eye though.

There are currently a lot of weapons in the game which just end up unused because a superior alternative just isnt a lot harder to get a hold of.

Everyone has different tastes and priorities when choosing weapons so variety is good.  Besides you need to have some 'inferior' weapons for the lower grade troops.

I get the lag in this scene in the 0.8 version , it's impossible to play , I had to leave the battle , is there a solution to this ?

 

[yellowmosquito]

2. The Walker seems overpowered. Compared to the rest of the guns in the mod, which seem to have been toned down, the walker still packs a wallop with 51p. As much as I like a personal hand cannon (the sawn off shotgun is great, by the way), it runs into the issue of "why would I ever use a different gun". With the Spencer vs. the Winchester for example, you have to decide between speed (the Winchester) or stopping power (the Spencer). Despite the fact that the Walker's reload time is very slow compared to other pistols, it's still fast enough to get the job done, and makes it difficult to consider other pistols.

After playing the mod some more, I find that the pistols have been weakened too much. Pistoleers are much weaker than riflemen even at close ranges because they need too many hits to take anything down. On the 38 caliber guns this mean, more often than not, to reload in the middle. The high end of 40+ damage is fine, but the low damage tail of the distribution is too long: "Navy" guns should be in the 30-40 range and the smaller handguns 25-30. Just my "feel" of it. Also, shouldn't the 38s be a little more accurate than the 44s for the same model? Less recoil with similar muzzle velocity, but less stopping power. At least it will give some choice. It made the option of packing a 6 shot with no extra ammo near useless unless you take the Walker or Dragoon.

I forgot to comment previously on the new animations: EXCELLENT!

We were trying to combat the fact that M&B gives firearms a 150% damage bonus.  Our pistols are classified as firearms, and our rifles are classed as crossbows.  So apparently the pistol damage is lower on paper, but not in practice.

Also, the alamo is really a work in progress at this point.

 

[LCJr]

Looks like ~120% on the test dummies, I'd never noticed that.  IIRC you always do max damage on a dummy.  One thing I noticed using a companion for target practice is that the pistols do much more consistent damage.  I dropped Ma-Wis-Ah about a dozen times with a .36 and body shots were doing 20-24 damage through her coat.  Using a Winchester rifle on her damage was very inconsistent in the 20-40 range.

@mouthnhoof Recoil on the .44 cap-n-balls is hardly noticeable.  I was very disappointed the first time I shot my 1860.  You can find plenty of videos on Youtube like this one. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7nf52k3jIA
Pretty informative video but somebody needs to say something to that guy about his weapon handling.  He's not very careful about where he points the muzzle, like into his belly when he's capping it.  Standing there talking with the gun on full cock and his finger on the trigger is a major no-no.

Forgot to add I was wondering the Walker damage myself.  Realistically it should be about the same as .44 Henry.

 

[Kitteh]

Impressions for 0.8:

1. love the music. I especially like that it changes when you're in different territories. Really fits the feel and tone of the mod.
2. The Walker seems overpowered. Compared to the rest of the guns in the mod, which seem to have been toned down, the walker still packs a wallop with 51p. As much as I like a personal hand cannon (the sawn off shotgun is great, by the way), it runs into the issue of "why would I ever use a different gun". With the Spencer vs. the Winchester for example, you have to decide between speed (the Winchester) or stopping power (the Spencer). Despite the fact that the Walker's reload time is very slow compared to other pistols, it's still fast enough to get the job done, and makes it difficult to consider other pistols.

I don't like using the Walker because of its poor accuracy and speed; I prefer faster, more accurate guns that do less damage and reload more quickly. I guess it's a matter of personal taste.