Forum Moderation Feedback

[Goker]

Everyone involved doesn't necessarily require warning or punishment. We do not simply look at the reported post. In the most recent case, only the person who escalated the issue to the extent which was deemed unwarranted got warned and at least two moderators saw the report before that action being taken.

So perhaps don't jump to conclusions without having any knowledge into what goes on.

 

[Austupaio]

That's bull****. Escalation my ass, ninja trolls on a regular basis and was clearly baiting with that 'le epic may may' post.

One minute I'm told to warn people for consistent moderation, now my warnings are resulting in inconsistent moderation.

So perhaps don't jump to conclusions without having any knowledge into what goes on.

Edit: Kinda have to because you people are basically completely opaque about what you do with your anonymous PMs, vague warning reasons and lack of a reason given until it's requested.

Besides, I highly doubt that regardless of which mods read it and what they read of that thread, that if I had reported ninja666 instead of Ringwraith, this would have gone the same way.

 

[Goker]

Were you reporting posts or people? I don't see anything warning worthy in ninja's posts in that incident. And it seems neither did the moderator who actually dealt with the report.

 

[Austupaio]

I reported people, which you should know if you actually read the report. I specifically mentioned that ninja666 and Ringwraith were slinging around memes in their little flame war, something that has resulted in warnings and mutes in the past for posters of the memes.

What was Ringwraith's warning for? Because according to him-

So I guess the moral of the story is "it's forbidden to insult other users if your image macro is more than 300px across".

-it was about the image.

If it's about the use of a meme image in a little flaming match, which would be consistent with past punishments, then both users should have warnings.

If it is about the pixel size of the image... well jesus ****, that's awfully arbitrary and not listed in the forums rules. You're seriously warning people because of an arbitrary, unlisted pixel limit while Cernunos still isn't banned and Danik took like a year or two to ban? Get your priorities straight.

 

[Vraelomon]

I beg to differ! Check your pixel privilege, or something.
(Just posting to follow the thread, carry on)

 

[Goker]

You didn't understand what I meant with the question, it seems. I'm talking about what the posts included. Now what your past experiences tell you about the people involved. You may get flamed because of your past experiences with Ninja but I can tell you that the posts in that thread alone does not justify Ringwraith's response.

The images used aren't the same. One was used to show disappointment with Ringwraith's failure to read the post properly and the other was used to tell Ninja to go **** himself, twice. If you fail to see how Ninja's post was in line with the thread and Ringwraith's wasn't, we can't help you there. Looking at the posts alone, I can tell you that Ringwraith's behaviour is the one we do not condone.

 

[Austupaio]

So you're essentially saying that the official forum stance is that ninja666 is a more highly valued poster than Ringwraith?

Before you reiterate yourself, I understand your post entirely, but I think the fact that ninja's behaviour goes unchecked while Ringwraith is the one getting a warning here, despite ninja's frequent repeats of this ****, is probably the only consistent part of moderation around here.

People like Danik, Cernunos, Ninja, Dante, Barky do whatever the **** they want, and the regulars get the warnings and mutes, because they used a naughty word.

So let's get an official stance on it, who would the administration rather have on the forum? Annoying trolling tweens who have the word filter on, or the regular anachronist crowd.

Edit; Sorry, I made a mistake, there is one other consistent tendency. The post and poster that the warning button is clicked on is almost always the only one punished, and if not, almost always the most severely punished.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Take a deep breath, calm down, and come back and read this again later. Not only are you not reading what Goker is actually saying, but you're factually wrong to boot.

 

[Austupaio]

Take a deep breath, calm down, and come back and read this again later.

I'm not excited, this is too common an occurrence to get excited over.

Not only are you not reading what Goker is actually saying,

I read and understood it, as I said. I don't really care about the reasoning for this particular warning, I care about the pattern that's been on-going for years now.

but you're factually wrong to boot.

On what point?

Edit; I checked, it took about 4 years for Danik to be banned.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

And he was frequently warned and muted over that time. He wasn't ignored. Meanwhile, people like Ringwraith and Orion get in fits all the time, get warned for it, and aren't banned.

All of the people you claim are being ignored have been warned frequently. Many on the list are banned. The regulars that have been warned for misconduct deserved their warnings. And why is this a problem? It's not like a warning has a lasting impact. It doesn't affect their ability to post. They aren't banned.

The years I've been on this forum don't reflect what you're portraying here.

And nothing in Goker's response entailed that ninja is a more highly valued poster than anyone else. Only that his behavior in that instance didn't deserve a warning. It doesn't matter what kind of history a poster has, if they don't break the rules they don't deserve a warning. Conversely, it doesn't matter how model of a forumite a person is, when they do break the rules they do deserve a warning.

And yes, you're worked up. Because if you were approaching this with a level head you wouldn't be replying to Goker the way you are. You're too smart for that kind of response.

 

[Austupaio]

All of the people you claim are being ignored have been warned frequently. Many on the list are banned.

Purely because of their persistence. Having participated and watched those types of threads, the regulars would often be warned or muted well in advance for some petty insult, while it took ages of baiting the ****poster into specifically saying something incriminating. This often takes a lot of work.

Many on the list are banned

Literally one of the people I listed are banned.

he regulars that have been warned for misconduct deserved their warnings.

Debatable in many, if not most, cases.

It's not like a warning has a lasting impact. It doesn't affect their ability to post. They aren't banned.

Because it's frustrating that the forum staff are completely unpredictable in how they do things, and these warnings often are mutes or temp bans. Some of them have been perma bans that never got over-turned.

if they don't break the rules they don't deserve a warning.

What rules? I thought not using meme images to insult someone was one of those rules, but apparently not. How the **** should I know? I know people have posts identical to Ninja's and not been warned for it, but as my last punishment showed, referring to the past just gets you muted.

And nothing in Goker's response entailed that ninja is a more highly valued poster than anyone else.

No, the pattern does, as I stated.

And yes, you're worked up.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm just tired of the moderator's bull****. None of them are any ****ing good at it. 4chan and Facepunch have more competent administration for crying out loud.

 

[Goker]

I'm not sure if I'm the one who is using English as a second language or you, cause you don't seem to understand the points I make. I suppose you're just venting.

And nothing in Goker's response entailed that ninja is a more highly valued poster than anyone else.

No, the pattern does, as I stated.

Ah, yes. So you are replying to things I haven't said.

So you're essentially saying that the official forum stance is that ninja666 is a more highly valued poster than Ringwraith?

I only recently got back to forum moderation so I suppose I can't talk for the official stance but if things haven't changed much: We don't judge who should be warned or not on past offences. We change the severity according to past offences. Ninja666 could have been worst troll ever seen on this forum but if the moderation thinks he wasn't in the wrong in this instance, his past means nothing at all.

Is this clear now? I have explained this several times, I think. Just want to make sure you understand this.

Before you reiterate yourself, I understand your post entirely, but I think the fact that ninja's behaviour goes unchecked while Ringwraith is the one getting a warning here, despite ninja's frequent repeats of this ****, is probably the only consistent part of moderation around here.

If you're still talking about this incident, Ringwraith is the only one deserving of a warning here. That is my official response as a moderator. That may vary depending on the person who deals with the report. As I have said many times now, I don't care about Ninja's past actions. I do not see any flaming on his part that could justify anyone, be it a regular or a newcomer, to tell him to go **** himself.

If Ninja's behaviour was reported before and he didn't get warnings for them, perhaps you should consider the possibility that the moderation finds no fault there. If they weren't reported and the moderation didn't see his posts, then I fear there is nothing to be done. Please don't go revenge-reporting, again. We're not going to weeks or even months back to give warnings. That is just absurd.

So let's get an official stance on it, who would the administration rather have on the forum? Annoying trolling tweens who have the word filter on, or the regular anachronist crowd.

Members who can stay within the bounds of the rules. If I had to choose, personally, I'd say that I prefer your-entitled-self to be gone. Just because you got annoyed by a member's posts doesn't mean we have to warn them on every instance they post or get involved in a problematic interaction. You can name as many people as you like that have been problematic but not banned. You may think that a good moderation would have banned them already but we tend to give more leeway to people who have spent some time on the forums. We want to see if a certain topic ticks them off, we want to see if they have redeeming qualities.

All of the people you claim are being ignored have been warned frequently. Many on the list are banned.

Purely because of their persistence. Having participated and watched those types of threads, the regulars would often be warned or muted well in advance for some petty insult, while it took ages of baiting the ****poster into specifically saying something incriminating. This often takes a lot of work.

"Saying something incriminating"? You really want them gone, don't you? Just because you think they ****post? Here's a bit of an advice given by Wellenbrecher on the same thread this incident took place.

Just put that ninja666 ****wit on ignore already, geez.
Look at the name, look at the constant annoying and badly done flame-baiting (or utter stupidity, who knows really...) and decide if it's worth the effort and ruining this thread for.

My, Wellenbrecher called "ninja666" a ****wit but didn't get warned. Perhaps it is the regulars who try to bait these would-be ****posters into pointless arguments get warned while others who take the rational way out of pointless arguments are not punished.

Don't act on your grudges. Don't escalate situations into pointless and petty arguments about people's behavior. Don't try to bait people you dislike that way. I have banned many problematic regulars in my time and I shall do so again if required.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

4chan and Facepunch have more competent administration for crying out loud.

And everybody is free to leave here and go there if they wish.

Alternatively, we do have a Community Manager. An actual TaleWorlds employee who is paid to discuss issues which arise within the community. You're free to take major grievances to him and he will look into them and I'm sure recommend changes to the moderation staff here if necessary.

And trust me; he does look into them.

 

[Austupaio]

Alternatively, we do have a Community Manager. An actual TaleWorlds employee who is paid to discuss issues which arise within the community.

That's funny, 'cause despite all the controversial moderation related events I've seen come up in the past few months, Captain Lust has not been involved at all.

Don't try to bait people you dislike that way. I have banned many problematic regulars in my time and I shall do so again if required.

It's the only way to get people like Danik and Lascivo banned, because it's okay to be a racist fascist around here, as long as you're subtle about it. Also, it's funny how you, Brutus, Llandy, etc. can't make a post without trying to fit in some cryptic threat, like it means something.

And everybody is free to leave here

I'd say that I prefer your-entitled-self to be gone.

You got it.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

That's funny, 'cause despite all the controversial moderation related events I've seen come up in the past few months, Captain Lust has not been involved at all.

His crystal ball doesn't work 24/7, but I can assure you, anything which is brought to his attention is given consideration by the entire administration staff.

 

[Goker]

Don't try to bait people you dislike that way. I have banned many problematic regulars in my time and I shall do so again if required.

It's the only way to get people like Danik and Lascivo banned, because it's okay to be a racist fascist around here, as long as you're subtle about it. Also, it's funny how you, Brutus, Llandy, etc. can't make a post without trying to fit in some cryptic threat, like it means something.

Wasn't cryptic. If you insist on creating problems where there is none simply because of your dislike towards other members, I will warn you, mute you and ban you. That is what I'm here to do. It is not a threat, it is a rule. A rule that you have to follow if you wish to remain here.

You can't expect the moderation to take action based on your whims.

 

[K-64]

He has raised some good points, in that there have been some members (and some currently are) being subtly-to-openly racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever other rule-breaking form of prejudice spouting their drivel for months on end yet nary a thing is done about them, maybe 15% warnings at best a few times, yet when a regular in the AG calls them out and uses naughty words against them, they get hit with a mute because they hurt Mr. McRacist's fwagile feewings.

Yes, flaming is against the rules, but so is racism, homophobic comments and hate propaganda. I imagine the outry Aust is raising wouldn't be quite as vocal if it didn't appear that the moderation was protecting these trolly/racist types over established regulars who have tried to be civil with the former types to no avail.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Yes, flaming is against the rules, but so is racism, homophobic comments and hate propaganda. I imagine the outry Aust is raising wouldn't be quite as vocal if it didn't appear that the moderation was protecting these trolly/racist types over established regulars who have tried to be civil with the former types to no avail.

If we banned every moron outright, how would Magorian have a chance to change their minds through debate? 

There is a difference between reporting somebody for being racist/homophobic/etc, and this:

Purely because of their persistence. Having participated and watched those types of threads, the regulars would often be warned or muted well in advance for some petty insult, while it took ages of baiting the ****poster into specifically saying something incriminating.

while it took ages of baiting the ****poster into specifically saying something incriminating.

baiting the ****poster

baiting

If you see somebody being racist/homophobic then report them and move on, don't bait them because it just reflects badly on you.

Would you prefer that we go back to the old-fashioned three-strikes rule, which used to be in effect before the new warning/muting system came out? I guarantee it would get rid of trolls, racists, homophobes... and it would also immediately cull the population of the AG by about 60% overnight.

The system of warns/mutes exists because we like to give people a chance to change their behaviour and the chance to exonerate themselves. And sometimes it works; under the old three-strikes system, Rebelknight wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes, but now that he's had a few (hundred) chances he's actually turning into a more sensible and level-headed poster. And he's not the only one.

The system of banning those who break the rules isn't perfect; some people get more chances than they deserve. But some people get the chances they do deserve. So feel free to keep reporting racism, homophobia, etc. Those people will be banned eventually. But if you have to bait them into it, then all it does it take you down with them.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

I'm starting to think you could shove a Tolkien quote somewhere in there, all of a sudden. 

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

I'm starting to think you could shove a Tolkien quote somewhere in there, all of a sudden. 

I actually wrote it whilst blowing smoke-rings through my pipe.