Economics and diplomacy Insane issues.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)

BudenniyS

Recruit
Steam
Just to be clear i love this game and think it's one of the best games out there, but i just can't understand how is money and diplomacy works in this game.

Here some crazy examples:

1. Caravans are absolutely useless. They provide tiny passive income for a Massive initial cost and require companion to oversee. Once you are at war it's really only a matter of time before they are taken over and your money is just gone. Please let us know what in game use are they except loosing money and getting companions captured.

(also on the side not why can't I ransom my companions from a ransom broker? The option exists but doesn't seem work at all) This a known bug? I think i saw a thread about this in 2020...

2. Prisoners are worth almost nothing. Nobles, are willing to pay a couple of thousand but I just had a ransom request for a King of Vlandia that offered me 0$ ! don't know who should be more insulted me or the king! I mean historically "a King's Ransom" was always crazy money, And in some previous Mount and blade games it was actually a sizeable chunk of cash. Kingdom should go to debt or something but pay a reasonable ransom for a king or they should offer fiefs (on a side note the fact that I had a ton of their nobles and their king! in my dungeon in no way seems to reduce the daily tribute I have to pay for a peace).

3. (the "good" stuff) Now.. I have a tiny clan with a war on me. They are not significant, have 5000 gold to their name no settlements and they are all in my dungeon. I come down to talk to them offering peace.... They demand 130 000 gold!!! In WHAT UNIVERSE IS THIS OK!!? How? Why ? (I tried it with several clans and they ALL demand over 100 000 for peace while being poor as church rats and sitting in my dungeon. (OK I can understand some die hard with a grudge might refuse. But 5-6 clans?? They are even at war with me only because I destroyed the last settlement of the faction they were vassals/mercenaries of) This is beyond unreasonable.

4. (Almost better) I convince another tiny clan (no fiefs or anything of value) to "switch sides" he wants compensation even though his "Lord" has one settlement left. Reasonable... But. he wants 500 000!!! This is more money the empire probably has in their coffers combined! Again i tried with 3-4 clans same price. Where did he even came up with such number i bet they can't even count that much! This is not OK, this is not reasonable.

5. The only "good" income there is is blacksmithing. Its' a bit of a cheese but at least it gives you a possibility of not being ultra poor. This is not for devs to nerf blacksmiths to the ground. But please provide alternatives.

Conclusion: Please make diplomacy at least a little bit more reasonable. 500 K gold for tiny clan is NOT OK, 100K for peace with tiny clan is not OK, 0$ !!! for a "king's ransom" is not OK.

Historically ransom payments were pretty much the only way a "no name" mercenaries could make significant money. (that or looting cities) Make the payout for ransoms especially for nobles reasonable, and Kings should be ALOT... Richard the Lionhart was ransomed for 150 000 silver (that basically two to three times the annual income for the English Crown.)
 
BudenniyS said:
1. Caravans are absolutely useless. They provide tiny passive income for a Massive initial cost and require companion to oversee. Once you are at war it's really only a matter of time before they are taken over and your money is just gone. Please let us know what in game use are they except loosing money and getting companions captured.
Click to expand...
Whether they make good money or not depends on how long you run them before entering politics. They seem like very bad ideas if you're a member of a faction/mercenary/etc. given the obvious risks but they're very safe if your early game strategy is to lie low for a few years and only become a noble/mercenary/etc. once you have a nest egg saved up.

Doing a second run, I've found they make an average revenue of about 200 per day, so it'd take a year or more to pay off 22,500 for the safer version of them (and I highly recommend the more expensive option because, unless I'm just lucky, I never have my caravans attacked when not at war with people and this seems like the most obvious reason why coupled with battle-oriented caravan leaders). The revenue went up to 500 per day on average during my first go with it so my working theory is that they become more profitable as the economy develops over the years.

In short, they're a bad financial investment if you plan on joining a faction (or otherwise being at war) within 2 years of starting a game, barely pay for themselves if you go to war within 3 years, and become profitable if you lie low for at least 4 years (all assuming you set up Caravans as soon as you can afford them).

BudenniyS said:
2. Prisoners are worth almost nothing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this needs to be looked at. Prisoners only make money once you're capturing high tier units and, chances are, you'll probably want to poach these guys rather than sell them and/or won't need the money anyways so it's hardly worthwhile to keep prisoners for the cash.

I basically agree with you on points 3 and 4. It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to convince a homeless man that he might find a new home if you joins you. Same for "peace," given they're basically just petty outlaws lucky to be alive that ought to be paying YOU if anything.

BudenniyS said:
5. The only "good" income there is is blacksmithing. Its' a bit of a cheese but at least it gives you a possibility of not being ultra poor. This is not for devs to nerf blacksmiths to the ground. But please provide alternatives.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Blacksmithing is OP and kills the incentive to make money any other way if you take full advantage of it (which is hard not to do if you want to use the skill at all) and should be nerfed to be about as well-paying as being a successful mercenary. *Unless it's no longer super easy to make 15K selling javelins and/or two-handed swords, since I know it's been adjusted numerous times.

On the flip side, Workshops and Caravans (to a lesser extent) ought to be more profitable since they're effectively mutually exclusive with being a mercenary and making money through fighting noble warbands but require much more work to get similar results. I get that this line of money making is "safe" or "low risk" compared to fighting battles but it's ridiculous for it to be so obtuse on how to make actual money doing these things and for it to be so insanely grindy to get the Everything Has A Price perk on top of it.

I'd say the best balanced economic aspect of Bannerlord, in terms of making money and pacing, is fighting battles and mercenary work and the further you from there the more OP (Blacksmithing) and UP (Workshops) it gets.
 
I waited until I found a high-skill trade wanderer then I formed my first caravan, been making $300 - $500 per day .. sweet. I noticed my caravan has default 30 ! soldiers protecting it, up from previous I think ? ($15,000 initial cost)

I am independent clan, making friends with everyone, no wars hassling me. Bandits are few and far between, not threatening a 30 strong caravan.

Sandbox mode - Bannerlord difficulty (realistic) (massively nerfed)
 
BudenniyS said:
Just to be clear i love this game and think it's one of the best games out there, but i just can't understand how is money and diplomacy works in this game.

Here some crazy examples:

2. Prisoners are worth almost nothing. Nobles, are willing to pay a couple of thousand but I just had a ransom request for a King of Vlandia that offered me 0$ ! don't know who should be more insulted me or the king! I mean historically "a King's Ransom" was always crazy money, And in some previous Mount and blade games it was actually a sizeable chunk of cash. Kingdom should go to debt or something but pay a reasonable ransom for a king or they should offer fiefs (on a side note the fact that I had a ton of their nobles and their king! in my dungeon in no way seems to reduce the daily tribute I have to pay for a peace).

3. (the "good" stuff) Now.. I have a tiny clan with a war on me. They are not significant, have 5000 gold to their name no settlements and they are all in my dungeon. I come down to talk to them offering peace.... They demand 130 000 gold!!! In WHAT UNIVERSE IS THIS OK!!? How? Why ? (I tried it with several clans and they ALL demand over 100 000 for peace while being poor as church rats and sitting in my dungeon. (OK I can understand some die hard with a grudge might refuse. But 5-6 clans?? They are even at war with me only because I destroyed the last settlement of the faction they were vassals/mercenaries of) This is beyond unreasonable.
Click to expand...

You dont state which version you are playing on, but regards to the nr 2.
I've not seen that in any of my plays since many patches ago.
So all the clans, even the dirt poor will offer 2-3000 denars for a regular lord of their clan.

Tiny clan and the issues with them, yeah thats annoying, but again with new versions of the game since what 1.27? after some time, those "pest clans" will disappear on their own if they dont have land or money, so typically 30 days or so after they have lost their lands(note haveing them in the dungeon will afaik prolong that 30 day, so releaseing them will quicken their demise, if you can ransom them do that aswell)

Pestlords as I call it, the clans with no lands, should not be allowed to declare war at all imo.
They should be if they started as rebels, be allowed to still be at war with the one they rebelled against sure, but not declare against others(this is when they survive the 30 days of the rebellion, but then after get kicked out of the town by the faction they rebelled against.)

Ideally all those rebelling clans or clans of destroyed kingdomes should join other factions on their own.
Just removeing that many clans from all kinds of kingdomes cause they never join a faction, kind of sucks for the game aswell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Any updates on the bugs implemented in latest release?
Replies
19
Views
396
k86
Selphie Nutter
Slower game mode needed
Replies
3
Views
224
oświecony
oświecony
Siege battles are weirdly bad for the defender
Replies
18
Views
552
Vaan2020
Back
Top Bottom