[Development] - Suggestions, Brainstorming Thread for V5

[Sildae]

Renaming / titling lords is a wonderful idea.  Sadly, it did not occur to TaleWorlds, so the M&B system just doesn't handle it.  The workaround is insane - literally over a thousand edits to try to circumvent their missing this basic and useful feature.  So won't happen.

If you say so, all I can say is "sad, but true"  It would have been great for those who like to play as vassals for an existing faction too.

As I said before, I find the idea of a building that you can add to a town that improves health beyond what your Churches and Monasteries do to be absurd.  Ergo, I won't be adding one to the game.  Maybe Mistont or Twan will, I dunno.  But for myself, I'd put machine guns in first.

Just as I stated, if not health, let it improve the way people like you and a little bit faith ! But I think Capitol and maybe Cathedrals/Basilique (or whatever unique buildings it will open a path to) are far more important ! That for the sake of feeling you own a kingdom, and loving your Capitol because of its unique buildings

As to making your companions into lords or patrol leaders / generals, I expect we'll do something along those lines... eventually...  probably...

That feature would resolve the Titling problem in some extent as you can rename your companions

Even though I'm a ignorant fool in term of coding, I found the Magelord tweaks and change some things (with logic and luck I found out the right numbers to tweak) and I'm playing with 3 tweaks in my different campaigns :
- I turned of the companions interactions, though it's a bit "too much" as they are as silent as death itself now... And i keep on just getting 6 of them, I found out that with top tier gear (mostly with big plates), they are killing machines... I understand better why vonmistont is reticent to give us more heroes or unable us to garnison them/making them
- I tweaked the attribution of conquered castles by kings (so I'm sure that the effort will worth it and gain the castles/towns) for native, as for SoD, It makes no little sense, just serve a lord that suits you then when he refuses you the deed... take the chance to rebel against him !
- I tweaked the calculation of your max troops (I was maybe a little too generous cutting the renown from 25pts per man to 5pts/man) without the morale tweak so I must be in a conquest motion (mostly siege, put garnison, begin a first construction and fly crawl to the next objective), crushing the kingdom I intended to grasp... But well going full out with 500 units (with almost 2500 renown I can go with 670 men) is slow but effective, everyone is running away pretty pretty fast :p And the 2 kingdom conquest is done in pretty no time (few days, manly the time to go from a castle to another) compared to the hard times when you get started.

Hum... I got a little too enthusiastic and wrote a good deal without noticing it... time to stop

 

[Sildae]

Renaming / titling lords is a wonderful idea.  Sadly, it did not occur to TaleWorlds, so the M&B system just doesn't handle it.  The workaround is insane - literally over a thousand edits to try to circumvent their missing this basic and useful feature.  So won't happen.

Nothing can be done like the scipting for the troop trees ? with a check on the fiefs owned by a lord peridically executed and an option via a council member ? As there is always 2 possibilities to upgrade the troops 1 can be upgrade and the second a downgrade ?
Sorry I don't want to challenge your word, I'm just pointing out a possibility... as I don't know in what way you have thought of it Feel free to flame me about this Mordachai

 

[Mordachai]

Nothing can be done like the scipting for the troop trees ? with a check on the fiefs owned by a lord peridically executed and an option via a council member ? As there is always 2 possibilities to upgrade the troops 1 can be upgrade and the second a downgrade ?
Sorry I don't want to challenge your word, I'm just pointing out a possibility... as I don't know in what way you have thought of it Feel free to flame me about this Mordachai

Not a problem.  Sometimes it leads to lateral thinking, and a new solution emerges.

The game automatically upgrades Lords and other "heroes" just like your own character - they have linear levels.  But for non-heroes, standard troops, it uses the upgrade paths.  Its a bit mysterious exactly how the XP is handled for these non-hero types - but my guess is that each time they gain one level beyond their starting level, they get the + symbol, and can be upgraded.  If its not your troop, then the game automatically randomly chooses an upgrade path, and swaps that troop for a newly minted one of the upgrade type (which I believe starts with the necessary XP for that troop type - so if its a 14th level troop, it starts with exactly enough XP to be 14th level).  Then when it gains enough XP to 15th, it again is eligible to be replaced by anything it can be upgraded to (regardless of the level jump).

So, my expectation is that upgrades don't apply to heroes (totally different mechanism).  And that even if it did, unless they're one of your companions, you wouldn't have the option to choose which way they go.  And you'd have to create every permutation of lord title & level, and we're getting into the ridiculous volumes of troops to handle this (Earl @ level 10, Early @ level 11, ...)

Seems like a dead end.  But keep the ideas coming - maybe something will lead to a break through.

 

[Cyclohexane]

I apologize if this is already in one of the 25 pages of text but here goes:

A report available for what fiefs belong to what lords. 

Currently we can get this information from the Marshal but have to filter through all the fiefs to get to it. 

1.)  It would be nice to have a list similar to the hero equipment list that shows what fief belongs to what lord (with relations included so you can reward the faithful).  That way it is easily determined who you need to give to who. 

2.)  It would also be nice to be able to demote lords all together.  Just have the capability to get rid of a problem child and promote another.  Of course, this should come with a penalty of all the other lords losing a slight relation value but hey, your the king right.  If you want to get rid of someone, why can't you?

I love all the reports that are available but wonder what effects them.  For example, what effects the lords income?  If I build a mill on a fief and give it to a lord, will it perform better than the village by itself?  Same with the manor.  If I just give a castle to a lord and not a village, will he steadily decline in income?  Is it even worth it to give out villages or should I just horde them all myself? 

 

[Mordachai]

A report available for what fiefs belong to what lords. 

Lol - already in the next version.

Currently we can get this information from the Marshal but have to filter through all the fiefs to get to it. 

1.)  It would be nice to have a list similar to the hero equipment list that shows what fief belongs to what lord (with relations included so you can reward the faithful).  That way it is easily determined who you need to give to who. 

Well... you can see Lords fiefs, and Lords relationships.  I think its adequate (its impossible for me to make every possible permutation of reports that one might wish to have (I find myself wishing for new permutations every time I want the answer to something... but life's too short, eh - use two reports and combine them in your head).

2.)  It would also be nice to be able to demote lords all together.  Just have the capability to get rid of a problem child and promote another.  Of course, this should come with a penalty of all the other lords losing a slight relation value but hey, your the king right.  If you want to get rid of someone, why can't you?

Kings had to deal with politics too.  If you piss off the clergy too much, you suffer retribution (they're a powerful lobby).  Similarly with your Nobles (lords), and with the Merchant class, and even to a lesser extent the peasants.  Obviously you could be arbitrary with your power to some degree... but your position was hardly assured (c.f. Shakespeare)

I love all the reports that are available but wonder what effects them.  For example, what effects the lords income?  If I build a mill on a fief and give it to a lord, will it perform better than the village by itself?  Same with the manor.  If I just give a castle to a lord and not a village, will he steadily decline in income?  Is it even worth it to give out villages or should I just horde them all myself?

Lords benefit in 4.1 SoD in the same ways you do (mostly).  They don't have relationships with their fiefs, e.g., so things that give relationship bonuses always affect you, not them.  But financial influences especially (and renown), affect them.

Lords cannot buy upgrades for their troops without cash.  Nor can they buy new (replacement) troops after battles.  Their only income source is the fiefs.  Things tend to cost them less - they don't pay wages, for example, but they definitely lose their effectiveness over time without a cash source... in 4.1  That was not true in 4.0.

As time goes forward, and I Have more opportunity to tweak the way that your Lords work, they will definitely have a strong relationship to their fiefs.  Lousy fief = lousy army, rich fief = strong army, etc. 

 

[Cyclohexane]

^
Good point about politics (to bad no assasinations), love the mod.  Can't wait for the next version. 

I have a few more ideas I think of while playing and I'll try to write them down all in one place (made a few map suggestions and comments in other thread) before posting. 

One thing I'd love to see is looters that will actually try to loot a village (of course it would have to be a large loot party).  This would have to be balanced so one civilization with a looter spawn point is not always having to protect thier fief but it would be fun. 

As it is now, I ignore looters after a couple weeks game play. 

 

[Exin]

Well I saw some ideas I like. But there are two that would change the gameplay style by a longshot.

The first one is: More ladders! Right now with MnB it's just me running the hell fast up the ladder in front of my men, and chopping as many enemies as I can so that my men can get on the wall. If I don't do that, than it's just 20 defending enemies killing my 200 men army. Quite useless to do anything else than run up the ladder to be honest. But with 3 or maibe 4? ladders than the chances of success on getting on the walls would be bigged. I wouldn't have to run all the way up to clear the are for my soldiers. That would make sieges more realistic also.

Second idea: Politics! That's just an interesting thought. It would be nice to be able to have some more conversation options with the kings. As I read the After Action Reports of many players, most of them like to refer about "alliances" with this or that kingdom or another. That thing is impossible in the game. In some ways you can attack a kingdom that is already under attacked by another, and think it's an alliance . But it would be interesting to have the option of asking let's say for example the Nords, to make an alliance with you against the Swadians. What do I mean by alliance? Their forces will join yours in battles, that's one thing that I've seen happening anyway in the game. 3 factions are at war, 2 of the are at peace between them, and they group up in battles against the 3rd one. But the point of having an alliance in game, besides the more in-game feeling it would give, would be maibe a a more positive relation with that kindgom? Maibe if the Vaegirs declare on you, the Nord, your allies, will declare war on the Vaegirs because of the alliance? This would be the big bonus of the alliance in my opinion. But anyway, there are ideas and ideas.

But actually I have more ideas.

I make this request as a infantry addict. Formations! This would give a much more feeling also to melee battles. It would be wonderfull i could split my infantry in two groups, one hold, the other go somewhere else... but that's dreaming. But imposing a square formation for the soldiers, or maibe make them stay in 4 lines, for better archer defense. Lots of formation ideas . It would be nice to have some though.

Another idea that is actually a comment on the Scroll thingy. The Scroll idea is just brilliant. To get to your homeland you must gather a certain amounts of scrolls from fallen centurians. So in the end you must defeat the first wave to gain access to your homeland. This will greatly increas the length of the game, in a good way. Plus it will offer and objective, something to reach out for. A goal. And yes the scrolls could offer a story of what is happening in the motherland. Or something like it.

Regarding the Legion now... I am not sure but is the Legion native of the Motherland? I mean story wise, or has the Legion came and invaded as it invades Caladria? The Legion originates from the Motherland or it comes from another continent? I ask because that gives me some writing ideas to be honest.

To the question "Should the Motherland continent have only chosen motherland kingdom (ie. only Antarians) or should it be constructed like Caladria?" I think we should have the Motherland like Caladria. Since it is said that the Legion has conquered the Motherland we could offer each of the 5 Motherland factions a castle or two, a chance for them to resist, and maibe counter-attack when we move back to the Motherland after defeating the Invasion. That's just an idea.

Also the Kingdom Name Change option would be a nice welcome. I really want to name my kingdom "The Great I PWN NOOBS LAME <3" kingdom.... Kingdom of Asugan doesn't sound very nice, neither is Suno...bah, I want a kewl kingdom name . Plus it's embaressing if you are in the situation of loosing the name city. I mean You are the Kingdom of Jeirbe or Praven... and you loose Praven to the Invasion or to the Rhodoks... How can you be the Kingdom of Praven without the town of Praven???

 

[Sibilance]

Nice post Exin. A few quick points:

For more ladders, you want the Lords & Realms Siege Pack. I think you can just throw it right over the relevant files in SoD.

Also, it wouldn't make sieges much more "realistic" beyond taking the player-Rambo thing down a bit; real siege warfare was usually a years-long campout contest to see whose army rotted away from starvation and disease and misery first. Gameplay balance and fun are the paramount concerns, and Von wants sieges to be grinding abattoirs of pain and anguish.

With ya on the interkingdom politics. That might have to wait for the Warband expansion though.

Formations are in! They're not quite perfect, but for a big mob of infantry goodness you can have all kinds of fun. Go admire the majestic Nord shieldwall as you slaughter their worthless archers who're running in circles forty paces away

To change your kingdom's name, follow the instructions in the last post of this thread. Only partly save-game compatible. And do try to think of something clever, you'd get sick of the leetspeak real fast. (But hey, I went with opera references from The Barber of Seville. Make way for the factotum!)

 

[Twan]

Except in case of unexpected difficulties, a new diplomatic code including alliances, ally calls, lords influencing their realm decisions etc... will be ready far before the expansion and tested before v5.

 

[Sibilance]

Except in case of unexpected difficulties, a new diplomatic code including alliances, ally calls, lords influencing their realm decisions etc... will be ready far before the expansion and tested before v5.

Well, hot tamale! This mod just keeps dishin' out the good stuff. I'm looking forward to what you're coming out with Twan.

 

[UrUkUs]

i wonder whats the progress in V5 is? Here were like billion suggestions, good or bad, but when work on V5 begins?

 

[jasonxfri13th]

i wonder whats the progress in V5 is? Here were like billion suggestions, good or bad, but when work on V5 begins?

V5 work has already began. 
But most of the work right now is for V4.5, (will have new features and Auxillery mod V1.5 in it) which should be the last update of V4.
Also twan is working hard on the Auxillery mod to add his whole diplomatic system.
Eventually both will be completed and major work will begin on V5.
As you can see there is already a map. 

V4.5 should help a lot in testing things out, the same with the Auxillery mod, so that V5 can have the same features perfected and some new ones.

 

[Exin]

Nice post Exin. A few quick points:

For more ladders, you want the Lords & Realms Siege Pack. I think you can just throw it right over the relevant files in SoD.

Also, it wouldn't make sieges much more "realistic" beyond taking the player-Rambo thing down a bit; real siege warfare was usually a years-long campout contest to see whose army rotted away from starvation and disease and misery first. Gameplay balance and fun are the paramount concerns, and Von wants sieges to be grinding abattoirs of pain and anguish.

With ya on the interkingdom politics. That might have to wait for the Warband expansion though.

Formations are in! They're not quite perfect, but for a big mob of infantry goodness you can have all kinds of fun. Go admire the majestic Nord shieldwall as you slaughter their worthless archers who're running in circles forty paces away

To change your kingdom's name, follow the instructions in the last post of this thread. Only partly save-game compatible. And do try to think of something clever, you'd get sick of the leetspeak real fast. (But hey, I went with opera references from The Barber of Seville. Make way for the factotum!)

Thanks for the ladder mod, I have been very annoyed by the one ladder thing for a long time. As for the kingdom name thing I was hoping for more of a in-game option... like from the camp menu or from one of the concilours.

 

[Cyclohexane]

The first one is: More ladders! Right now with MnB it's just me running the hell fast up the ladder in front of my men, and chopping as many enemies as I can so that my men can get on the wall. If I don't do that, than it's just 20 defending enemies killing my 200 men army. Quite useless to do anything else than run up the ladder to be honest. But with 3 or maibe 4? ladders than the chances of success on getting on the walls would be bigged. I wouldn't have to run all the way up to clear the are for my soldiers. That would make sieges more realistic also.

There is another option to bring a ton of archers and tell your men to stand ground in a good position to fire.  Once you are out of arrows, retreat and repeat.  After dwindling down thier numbers, its possible to let your men to the major amount of fighting.  However, I'm not disagreeing with you on the ladder idea. 

 

[Sibilance]

The first one is: More ladders! Right now with MnB it's just me running the hell fast up the ladder in front of my men, and chopping as many enemies as I can so that my men can get on the wall. If I don't do that, than it's just 20 defending enemies killing my 200 men army. Quite useless to do anything else than run up the ladder to be honest. But with 3 or maibe 4? ladders than the chances of success on getting on the walls would be bigged. I wouldn't have to run all the way up to clear the are for my soldiers. That would make sieges more realistic also.

There is another option to bring a ton of archers and tell your men to stand ground in a good position to fire.  Once you are out of arrows, retreat and repeat.  After dwindling down thier numbers, its possible to let your men to the major amount of fighting.  However, I'm not disagreeing with you on the ladder idea.

Hey, the guy's an infantry junkie, don't go takin' the fun out of it all with your twangy bowstrings and retreating

Also, forgot to mention Exin, you should read the FAQ and learn the hotkeys for the formations system.

 

[Sibilance]

Moved this from the FAQ thread:

Sorry, there's so many good things to get to - if I find time I'll try to disable some of the obvious glitches with the rebellion quests - or even to simply disable that quest tree entirely from SoD...

Maybe wait a few days, and start a new game when 4.5 is ready.  Should be tons of new goodies.

Man, you guys are insane! This has to be the most industrious modding team M&B's ever seen, you guys are freakin' machines with all the updates

Anyway, as to pretenders, it would be more fun to keep them in and add some Machiavellian manipulations and court drama to involve them. In particular, I've always wanted a way to get the factions to declare war on one another, equivalent to the raiding caravans quest. Perhaps claimants would be willing to help you set off the powder keg somehow; after all, if they're willing to plunge their realm into a bloody civil war they're probably willing to get their hands dirty behind the scenes.

Another thing which would be cool is to give them some of the old .950-era Traveler functions, where they'd be willing to sell out key intel on their faction. (Medieval pretenders got a lot of mileage out of their extensive spy networks.) It would add a whole new level to planning your campaigns if a relevant claimant happened to be holed up in a nearby town and you could go to him to procure information on garrisons, food stocks, lord personalities, wealth, and locations, new special honorable/dishonorable quests, and perhaps even that newly instigated war to get your enemies distracted with one another. Of course, they might just be helping you place all of Calradia under your thrall, but they wouldn't realize that until it was too late, mo ho ho.

It even gives me another idea -- since you Magna Carta lovers are already putting in a Parliament, how about giving claimants new roles as optional stewards of territories you've conquered? Crusader Kings players know that it's hard for one man to exercise dominion over a big swathe of territory like Calradia. Furthermore, the might-makes-right legitimacy of your own Lords should only go so far in Calradia's multicultural morass. Even in the high middle ages, lawless warlords conducting I-took-it-so-it's-mine-forever-no-givebacks land annexation and territorial sovereignty was a risky diplomatic move, and led to domestic chaos, rebellious uprisings, and civil wars.

Perhaps the Claimants could be like a special regional-only castle adviser, and you'd do a big quest in order to gain their trust and get them to serve you. They could do things like give bonus prosperity, handle caravans, decrease investment risk, assist with health maintenance, send out patrols to keep order in their cultural area, trigger cool random events, and lend some legitimate royal family credentials to your cause so you'd avoid civil wars and rebellions and the whole foreign-infidel-despotic-warlord gig. This would also go really well with the Calradian Auxiliaries idea Sobric had earlier, as the Claimants could give you access to them.

Anyway, bottom line, don't take 'em out; do something nifty and RPGish and storyliney with 'em in 5.0 instead!

 

[vonmistont]

It even gives me another idea -- since you Magna Carta lovers are already putting in a Parliament, how about giving claimants new roles as optional stewards of territories you've conquered? Crusader Kings players know that it's hard for one man to exercise dominion over a big swathe of territory like Calradia. Furthermore, the might-makes-right legitimacy of your own Lords should only go so far in Calradia's multicultural morass. Even in the high middle ages, lawless warlords conducting I-took-it-so-it's-mine-forever-no-givebacks land annexation and territorial sovereignty was a risky diplomatic move, and led to domestic chaos, rebellious uprisings, and civil wars.

Perhaps the Claimants could be like a special regional-only castle adviser, and you'd do a big quest in order to gain their trust and get them to serve you. They could do things like give bonus prosperity, handle caravans, decrease investment risk, assist with health maintenance, send out patrols to keep order in their cultural area, trigger cool random events, and lend some legitimate royal family credentials to your cause so you'd avoid civil wars and rebellions and the whole foreign-infidel-despotic-warlord gig. This would also go really well with the Calradian Auxiliaries idea Sobric had earlier, as the Claimants could give you access to them.

Anyway, bottom line, don't take 'em out; do something nifty and RPGish and storyliney with 'em in 5.0 instead!

I like that very much. Legitimization of player's regin is something that is missing. Pretenders will surely have a vital part in new storyline but before V5 we probably won't do anything with them.

The one thing that will be added from Crusader Kings for sure will be tax efficiency decreasing with domain size.

 

[bgfan]

Definatly need to be able to recruit as many lords as desired and maby more in depth alliances w/ other kingdoms such as coordinating attacks or even if a kingdom is defeated and you are allies you could take them in as refugees and they'd fight alongside you untill they're homeland is won back and when it is they leave you but a bunch of peasants and some of the factions lords come to you and offer to join you (say like 1000 peasants want to join you and whatever you can;t take join up with your lords)

 

[alcibiades]

I think getting rid of the pretender/rebellion mechanism is a good idea, though perhaps it could be incorporated into SoD in the long run in a vastly simplified form.

For instance, instead of "rebellion" just make the quest contingent upon capturing the faction ruler and offering him the option of giving up his throne or being blinded with a hot iron.    And as a side result, there could be an instant alliance between the player's faction and the new ruler.

 

[Cyclohexane]

A report available for what fiefs belong to what lords. 

Lol - already in the next version.

1.)  As I was playing last night, I thought of another report that would be very useful.  An under construction report for the fiefs you have given to your lords. 

It is very difficult to remember what village belongs to whom as the game progresses and even harder to remember what you have built where.  In addition to the fief-under construction report, is it possible to add a "Lord fief under construction" report? 

What you build in castles and villages directly effects lords to so it would make since to have each of their villages maximized to its full potential as well. 


2.)  How about an entry fee for a special tournament that grants a unique item to the winner.  It can be useful or just some type of trophy item (masterwork wooden sword, gold cloak, or something useful but not to useful messing up the balance like thick hereditary mail).


3.)  How about a random quest that occurs after winning a tournament and betting on yourself where you are accused of cheating (you companions do enter) or that you owe money (or even they owe money and its time to collect).  This could be similar to the random quest where you get challenged to a duel because of a lady.  They can catch you coming out of the bathroom with only your fists (or dagger, etc) to protect yourself... 

4.)  How about the ability to bet on someone else during a tournament? 

Thanks for this thread!