Couch your lance!

[Skeletor9000]

One suggestion with regard to lances (since they're my favorite weapon in-game): It would be nice to be able to aim the lance in some capacity to enable you to strike at enemies on your shield side (as I believe was the preferred side to strike, at least when jousting). It would also enable you to strike for the head or shoulder to dismount the opponent. Ultimately, I'd love to be able to see "Head shot!" and "Couched lance damage!" on the same strike. I realize that with the simplified 'shield blocks everything' blocking system that you would't be able to get AROUND the shield, but it would make it more easier to strike at enemies if you could at least make finer adjustments to the lance point while galloping full tilt. <-- First post, be gentle if it's been brought up before.

 

[GreenKnight]

I definitely think it'd be nice to have some sort of aiming crosshair. People have said there used to be one, but my memory fails me, and I can't remember if I ever saw it. I wouldn't even care if it was accurate enough to target specific hit zones, as long as it let you know the strike was on target to hit the guy you were aiming for. Right now, a couched lance charge is dangerous and frustrating, because you have to just get the lance in the right area, and hope it hits the target. Many a time, the lance has apparently been slightly off, and I get a spear in the face for my trouble.

 

[screwtype]

I don't think you need an aiming crosshair for a lance because you can already see where the lance is pointing. But I do think perhaps you should be able to swivel your lance a bit by moving the mouse from side to side. That might be an extra skill to work on as you'd be aiming your horse with one hand and trying to swivel your lance with the other. But you could still choose not to swivel and just have the lance follow the horse the way it does now.

 

[Skeletor9000]

That's just the system I was suggesting. You could control your galloping steed while you carefully manipulate the tip of your lance witht the mouse. It would look really spectacular to Nail someone cleanly in the helm and watch as they tumble off their steed.

 

[screwtype]

Yeah I like that idea too and I kind of wonder why it's not there. Maybe Armanag found it made the lance too easy or too lethal or something.

But in theory I do like the idea of being able to AIM the lance a bit. Quite frankly I get a bit tired of my horse ploughing into the guy instead of my lance when he suddenly ducks toward me. If you could aim the lance you could go a bit wider around the guy and just swivel the lance to hit him instead.

 

[Cleitan]

You can aim the lance up and down or slightly to either side, by aiming with the mouse.... I have jouseted many guys off their horses without being hit, Ive taken out horses, infantry and can hit anything with my lance. Its easy to aim it. Try it.

 

[Skeletor9000]

I'll have to try this again when I'm home from work, but as I recall you're not able to shift the aim by very much. What I'd like to see is the ability to actually hit targets on the shield-side of your mount, as would be done at a jousting tournament.

 

[screwtype]

You can aim the lance up and down or slightly to either side, by aiming with the mouse.... I have jouseted many guys off their horses without being hit, Ive taken out horses, infantry and can hit anything with my lance. Its easy to aim it. Try it.

Bit suprised to hear that Cleitan because I've been trying to move the lance with the mouse when in the couched position but it doesn't seem to move.

It does move if you hold the mouse down to aim a blow, but this is not the same as being able to aim it when in the couched position.

 

[Skeletor9000]

Indeed, it seems that in the couched position, the lance is stationary and controlled only by the horse's movement. I'd even settle for setting the lance before the charge, like maybe choosing with a keypress whether it's going to be on the shield or lance side of my horse. I imagine Armagan chose not to do that because it'd be more difficult to aim the lance when it's at an angle. It'd be nice to move it in some subtle manner. Perhaps once the lance is couched, you could hold the mouse button to fine tune the aiming. If you still wanted to swivel in your saddle and strike with the lance, you could just slow your horse and un-couch the lance. Considering that the lances are primarily used in the couched position, I don't think anyone would mourn the loss of being able to use the "strike" if they gained the ability to correct their aim in this manner. Otherwise, you may as well be using a boar spear.

 

[Thraundil]

I like the idea of aiming couched lances - it's really annoying when speeding down a hill, burthing through 10 bandits on foot and not hitting because you can't aim.

But using the "shileds block" as an excuse, is not good - couched lances kill everything, even with a shield in place.
But its too easy to jump away from a couched lance charge!

 

[JohnathanStrange]

I'll have to try this again when I'm home from work, but as I recall you're not able to shift the aim by very much. What I'd like to see is the ability to actually hit targets on the shield-side of your mount, as would be done at a jousting tournament.

That's the way it appears to me also.

 

[Skeletor9000]

Thraundil: I don't know if I'm far enough along in the game to encounter awesome shields that block a couched lance, but it seems to me that even against shield users my couched lance (when I'm lucky enough to connect) always does massive damage.

I just had another thought for armagan to consider: Maybe we could have a system that works as follows: when you're riding slowly, you can swivel and aim at sides and behind with the "thrust" as it is. When you're moving fast enough to couch the lance, however, you don't have a "thrust". Instead, holding the mouse button would move the lance tip in a pre-defined (small, forward facing) area, with the rationale that hitting anything at too great an angle would unseat you from your mount, so you wouldn't want to do that. I'm thinking maybe 5 or 7 degrees of movement to either side would do the trick, and maybe the same range of vertical movement.

The interesting thing is that trying to guide the lance at a gallop would certainly be very difficult (hence the old "brass ring" challenges) so maybe it could be the kind of thing you'd need significant polearm skill to achieve. Without good polearm skill, your lance would wobble about if you try to aim, and the aim could get better as skill increases. To keep this from being a frustrating crapshoot, though, you could refrain from "aiming" and just use the current method (which I'll call "aiming the horse") until you achieved a higher skill rating. Just a thought.

I guess I get way too excited about the lance-based combat. I'd like a full-on joust with hitbox detection for shields, etc. But all that will come later. Aiming would really help right now.

 

[Laurence of Arabia]

i think its fair that they are fairly difficult to aim, considering the immense amount of punishment it deals out when it strikes its target. I can do 150+ damage with it easily.

 

[Skeletor9000]

I agree. That's why I suggest the wobble/aim system. That way if you're willing to dedicate the time/points to mastery of the weapon, you're eventually rewarded with the consistency necessary to be even more fearsome on the battlefield. The speed requirement is already a tactical disadvantage, and one that won't go away at high level. I think, though, that once you've put the time into it, you really ought to be able to hit with consistency. Honestly, in an open field, who but the most resolute of pikemen could hope to stand even a small chance against a charging wall of lances? At high level that devastating effect should be aimable, I think.

 

[CrushU]

Honestly, in an open field, who but the most resolute of pikemen could hope to stand even a small chance against a charging wall of lances?

You are aware it's possible, irl, to set a pike/spear/lance against a charging horse, on the theory/reality that the same awesome power a couched lance has, due to the gallop of the horse, the set polearm has the same awesome power, due to the horse galloping onto it. I think that if this and the 'couch aim' were implemented at the same time, it MAY balance it out. Setting a weapon against a charge DOES take time though, so you wouldn't worry about that pikeman you're running down suddenly turning and you're flying through the air with your horse impaled.

In any case, i think that aiming the couched lance would reduce its damage. Even more for more deviation left/right from 'Forward', relatively less if you're just pointing it down to hit that aforementioned pikeman you're running down. (Oh yeah, and don't forget you can still jump your horse OVER the set weapon mentioned above... Which could introduce pikeman formations two or three deep... heh. Have a real battle goin on, provided you had time to set everyone up... Prolly turn it into an RTS though, lol)

 

[GreenKnight]

I wouldn't be opposed to some way of adjusting the lance aim independent of the way your horse is going, but the more I play, the more I'm convinced that some sort of aiming crosshair is a must. Yes, you can see the tip of your lance, but that's just not reliable enough. Manh a time, it's looked like I was right on target, but the lance still never found its target. It could be disabled if you like, just like the regular crosshair, or the damage report. But I definitely think it should be in there as an option, especially given how screwed up you get if all you get out of a lance charge is a stopped horse in the middle of a group of enemy knights.

 

[screwtype]

I don't want a crosshair, I think that would rather spoil the fun. It could be an option, but then I'd want it as a separate option from the reticule for crossbows and bows because I use those reticules.

And BTW I don't agree with the notion of aiming your couched lance by holding down the mouse button. You should aim it by just moving the mouse from side to side. This is how you aim the lance on horseback when you are not using the couched position, so I see no need to introduce a new method for the couched position which would only confuse the issue.

 

[Lamaros]

No way never, ever! Couched lances are awesomly powerful as it is, with these suggestions it'd be a joke!

You can aim already, it just requires skill! You have to aim with the horseand with your up down looking direction. There's nothing more satisfying than doing three times more damage than you had to! (I think my most fun was the time I killed about 5 or 6 guys in a row in the one pass)

You can already aim across the horse by thrusting the lance, so leave the couching be.

 

[Worbah]

No way never, ever! Couched lances are awesomly powerful as it is, with these suggestions it'd be a joke!

You can aim already, it just requires skill! You have to aim with the horseand with your up down looking direction. There's nothing more satisfying than doing three times more damage than you had to! (I think my most fun was the time I killed about 5 or 6 guys in a row in the one pass)

You can already aim across the horse by thrusting the lance, so leave the couching be.

If you slow down the slightest bit, your lance becomes useless. Your enemy turns, your lance becomes useless. You get stopped, you'll end up wearing the lance as a buttplug.

And how do you aim? All I've seen is the lance bobbing up and down, I've never seen any sense in the movement. Could you make a training video or something? 'how to use your lance for morons'

 

[Lamaros]

You have to pick and change your targets quickly and make sure you dont get in a situation where you'll have to pull up short and risk being hacked to pieces. Sometimes you have to let a sweep go without taking anyone. Just keep looking as you charge in and find the target that's open.

You can pull up quickly by pressing back. If you have a fast horse then use this to pull up and change line quickly, you'll get to couched speed quick enough.

Practice in the arena a lot, there's fewer distractions and it's a level ground, so you can focus on timing your movement and aiming without the distractions of big battles. Look low and look high and you'll see the lance move. Getting headshots on infantry is about holding the right height and watching the target carefuly so you can adjust on to the proper line (usualy at the very last second).

I like to use a spirited courser (horse archer + lancer), I find that speed and manuverability is better suited as I'm scurrying around picking off those avaliable. Using a heavy charger can be good for just running down a bunch, but that style is less concerned with precision.

But yeah, just run over the tournament a few hundred times, you'll become a great lancer and archer (hitting lancers with a 2h sword is fun too).