Bush - Farewell.
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Actually, for socialism to work, there needs to be a strong work ethic among the people. Sure, Americans CAN have a strong work ethic, but only when it is fed with possibility of pay raises and more toys. Russians from my understanding believe that working hard and doing your best was an honourable thing to do and they did it out of a sense of patriotism. Which is why socialism could take hold there. I'm sure people with more experience with such can expound on this better. Different cultures need different economies and different governments. One size doesn't fit all. That being said, any form of socialism won't work in the US until the people are brain washed enough into thinking that they can be lazy on the government's dollar.
italiano
Grandmaster Knight
phillo99 said:
His point was related to the person who replied to my post, so yes, he's correct. Socialism is about an equal or fair distribution of wealth, which I am not a part of. I pointed out that I benefit from capitalism, and someone replied that it's because of socialism. Vil replied that this was not true and it the situation was the exact opposite of what socialism would provide, and this is true.
People still have to be productive in a socialist society. There would be bonuses for productive individuals, and punishments for unproductive ones. Socialism isn't necessarily about equal distribution, it can be about fair distribution of wealth. Socialism doesn't need a strong sense of patriotism, but a strong sense of community. As for the Russians idea of hard working, propoganda was strong and there wasn't the current environment of consumerism. Different times. Americans are considered to be extremely patriotic (overly so to many non-Americans), so that can't be what is necessarily needed for socialism.
Bah, you didn't get what I meant.
If you look at my first sentence, I stated that a strong work ethic is needed. As far as a sense of community, yes on a small scale, that is what is needed, but on a national scale you need a strong sense of patriotism. Now, American patriotism is strong, but it is for different means and ends. Finally, what I meant by my final sentence was that Americans are consumers, living in a capitalist society, we're driven by money. Therefor, the only way that American's will accept socialism is if it is a sort of bonus that the government gives away freely. Of course, it doesn't work like this, but lots of American's don't understand and think that if all the money is taken from the rich people, everyone else will get a free ride through life.
If you look at my first sentence, I stated that a strong work ethic is needed. As far as a sense of community, yes on a small scale, that is what is needed, but on a national scale you need a strong sense of patriotism. Now, American patriotism is strong, but it is for different means and ends. Finally, what I meant by my final sentence was that Americans are consumers, living in a capitalist society, we're driven by money. Therefor, the only way that American's will accept socialism is if it is a sort of bonus that the government gives away freely. Of course, it doesn't work like this, but lots of American's don't understand and think that if all the money is taken from the rich people, everyone else will get a free ride through life.
italiano
Grandmaster Knight
American society is not as capitalist as you would think, and it will never be the same after all these damn bailouts.
Yes. I would say the reason socialism wouldn't appear to work is because of the american stereotype of greed and laziness, and because culturally Americans have likely been conditioned to loathe socialism (from the days of the Cold War). Now I don't know to what extent Americans are greedier and lazier than the rest of us, but it would seem more so due to the excessiveness there. It wasn't always the case, Americans seemed to be damn hard workers back in the day. I'm just taking a guess here though as I haven't been to America nor met many Americans (those I have met have been good people).
Yes, rather than "For the motherland", it's "We're number 1, we're number 1! Your all morans!". Okay, that last bit was a slight dig, but the first part of it is largely accurate (that I do know).
A lot of people everywhere think that. Few people understand governing, politics, economics etc. It's also in the best interest of the 'power' to keep people uneducated about these matters.
Yes. I would say the reason socialism wouldn't appear to work is because of the american stereotype of greed and laziness, and because culturally Americans have likely been conditioned to loathe socialism (from the days of the Cold War). Now I don't know to what extent Americans are greedier and lazier than the rest of us, but it would seem more so due to the excessiveness there. It wasn't always the case, Americans seemed to be damn hard workers back in the day. I'm just taking a guess here though as I haven't been to America nor met many Americans (those I have met have been good people).
Yes, rather than "For the motherland", it's "We're number 1, we're number 1! Your all morans!". Okay, that last bit was a slight dig, but the first part of it is largely accurate (that I do know).
A lot of people everywhere think that. Few people understand governing, politics, economics etc. It's also in the best interest of the 'power' to keep people uneducated about these matters.
ecto_plasm
Knight
Americans still are hard workers. The greedy rich ones just have good publicists. Seriously, two people control almost all the media in this country, Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch (ought to be deported back to Australia, IMO), both rich white bastards with entitlement issues. So what do they do? Try to sell the idea that the poor and middle class should pay a disproportionate bulk of the taxes (Rupert's the overt offender here, Ted's kind of a lefty), and the rich should get a lower percentage, even though they barely pay that due to offshore banking and other tax shelters. Then they go and buy off a senator or two or three. Regular people can't afford to do that (they can just write to their congressperson). The rich ones have also recently sold anti-unionism on a lot of working class ones struggling to make ends meet. Gee if only they could organize and demand fair treatment (/facepalm). I even know a 30 year United Auto Worker member who didn't realize his beliefs were more congruent with Democrats than Republicans until this election, because that's how good the GOP's propaganda and misinformation is.
We have a culture of victim blame, so people get blamed and smeared for their poverty. The rich white guy ad campaign is pretty strong, it only took the nigh end of the world for people to convince people to even try out the other party.
Socialism and and capitalism are just social tools, and neither is really a complete basis for a society.
We have a culture of victim blame, so people get blamed and smeared for their poverty. The rich white guy ad campaign is pretty strong, it only took the nigh end of the world for people to convince people to even try out the other party.
Socialism and and capitalism are just social tools, and neither is really a complete basis for a society.
ecto_plasm
Knight
FixedTibertus said:
ecto_plasm said:
Here you show your complete inability to think for yourself by doing something thousands of others have done beforehand. Again, congrats.
Edit: I forgot to mention. You also show how you, like so many liberals and conservatives, automatically see everything in black and white by automatically calling me a conservative because I bashed you for spitting up everything liberals plant into the heads of the masses.
Rabid Potatoe
Master Knight
Mr Gladstone disapproves of you. Look at him, he's really pissed off. RUN!
ecto_plasm
Knight
Tibertus said:
And you obviously showed yourself to think in less than nuanced terms because you labeled me without even addressing my post. Then you attacked my position from the position of having no position, so way to circumvent having an actual opinion, T. Hell, if the election was between Ron Paul and Barack Obama, I would have voted for the republican. Weird eh? What an undereducated tit I am.
Liberal and conservative are limiting and useless, it describes nothing. Technically a democrat and a republican are both philosophically liberal (although some modern "liberals" flirt with communitarianism, like Hillary). Philosophically a liberal is defined as someone who champions the rights of the individual over the rights of society. Not really a slam against me, in my opinion.
some nutshell education for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Recommended reading on the subject: Thomas Paine and John Rawls. These two will give you a good idea about the past and present nature of the philosophy.
You know the only reason Ron Paul was trying to run as a republican is because he wouldn't have any chance in hell if he ran as a Libertarian, right? You also know that he is just about the polar opposite of Obama when it comes to just about every issue, right? Hell, you were just complaining about rich people not paying taxes, and then you say you would vote for a candidate who would make every effort to abolish the federal income tax. I have to agree though, I would have actually voted if Ron Paul was running, my stance is more aligned with his than just about any politician out there [sarcasm] except maybe this guy. http://jonathontheimpalerforpresident2008.blogspot.com/ [/sarcasm]
ecto_plasm
Knight
You didn't vote? You know it's literally the least you can do.
ecto_plasm said:
Honestly, it was vote for the "American Socialist of the Year" Runner Up, or the guy who eeked through his military career. While I really respect what McCain went through as a POW, and I respect the rank he achieved in the military, I don't believe he did his best, which is something all members of the military are expected of. But when it comes down to it. McCain is just as pushy about his social ideals in the federal government as Obama is. Again, I'm going to say it's not the Federal Government's job to dictate how people are to live their lives. Beyond the basic freedoms defined in the constitution, it's up to the States to come up with what social legislation they want to pass.
Palos
Knight
I can't say I liked Bush...
That's it.
But really, I've been getting this sinking feeling lately that on my 18th birthday there's gonna be a draft. As fun as it'd be to shoot stuff, I'm the guy that's either gonna get sniped, or the guy that's gonna be the only survivor of an ambush he inadvertently started.
Bush has done so little to help us, the only good thing I can remember him doing was shooting down that satellite and giving Jon Stewart craploads of material.. On the other hand, for bad things he's gotten us into two wars, one of which wasn't even necessary, he's taken our economy to a nice, quiet place, and Thrown it off a ****ing cliff. Worst of all, as a Christian, I find it horrifically offensive that he would call himself the one God wanted to lead America. Oh, and he's in the same party as Sarah Palin. Dethh-thpiccable!
That's it.
But really, I've been getting this sinking feeling lately that on my 18th birthday there's gonna be a draft. As fun as it'd be to shoot stuff, I'm the guy that's either gonna get sniped, or the guy that's gonna be the only survivor of an ambush he inadvertently started.
Bush has done so little to help us, the only good thing I can remember him doing was shooting down that satellite and giving Jon Stewart craploads of material.. On the other hand, for bad things he's gotten us into two wars, one of which wasn't even necessary, he's taken our economy to a nice, quiet place, and Thrown it off a ****ing cliff. Worst of all, as a Christian, I find it horrifically offensive that he would call himself the one God wanted to lead America. Oh, and he's in the same party as Sarah Palin. Dethh-thpiccable!
