Recent content by AstralVoid

Some suggestions, not for the mod, but for future conduct I would like to see from you gsanders (for as much good as it will do):

A simple "no" will suffice once in a while. Try it, you might find it to your liking rather than multi-paragraph rants more appropriate to a blog of some kind, in a very public forum dedicated to a video game mod. Or at least, stop taking everything so personally on the internet. There is no story, and you are not the hero of it, and nor am I for that matter.

Most people are going to give suggestions in the Suggestions thread completely independent of any past history you have against something, and likely even independent of other people's suggestions. They played the mod, liked what they saw, and felt strongly enough to go out of their way and ask a question or mention something they thought would be cool. Nobody's going to read through the last thousand posts you have...

gsanders said:

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Thanks for taking the time to provide a response, and for continuing to put up with people who prod you beyond the mod itself, even if it continues to be a huge pain in the ass for you.

A story that always fascinated me was that of the Millenial King, with the idea that the act of necromancy (as with most tools) wasn't inherently good or bad, but its subsequent use and intent defined it. The short version is that it is a kingdom founded on necromancy, with only willing brought back to serve in undeath (sanctified and guarded if they do not wish to be), with menial labor and dangerous jobs (such as military duties) taken up by the skeletons of those who have passed, freeing up people for the pursuit of more fulfilling endeavors, all while being careful to not entrap the soul within the body during the ritual.

Between that, and two of my favorite tropes Light is Not Good, and Dark is Not Evil, I've always loved the idea that things aren't always what they appear at first glance, and that digging a bit deeper gets to vast shades of gray morality no matter how you look at it.

Used well, those types of tropes can turn player preconceptions on their head in all sorts of fun, twisty ways that one may not expect.

I think that someday I may get enough motivation and time to explore the setting in my head through the creation of a mod or game myself, but until then I do thank you for providing at least some modicum of ability to experience that in the meantime in your world. I would be disappointed with the removal of player necromancy entirely, but not put off the mod as a whole, just because there is so much more to experience.

Spanish or otherwise

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Well I certainly didn't expect that in the response.

I have two questions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]In your world, is there no gray area for necromancy or is it all simply the blackest of deeds? If the latter, why?
[*]Is there going to be more world building for the game as a whole, or is just "Calradia, bigger, with magic and a few extra things thrown in"?
[/list]

My being is driven by wanting to understand things - I always want to know the why and how at minimum, and I tend to go into things as open minded at possible. In this vein, I've always considered necromancy a morbid interest at best, but Phantasy makes for some great roleplaying opportunities due to the multitude of classes in general - playing only one thing isn't getting the full experience. In any case, what one chooses at creation is a set of tools the player uses to interact with the world - whether you're running around swinging a blade, slinging spells or knocking arrows, you're giving yourself a head start in a manner of your choosing, and at its base necromancy should be considered no different.

There is no world building to justify why necromancers are "bad" or paladins are "good" outside of preconceptions made by pop culture, traditional fantasy writings, and dogmatic religious teachings external to the game and this mod. Hell, there's not even a reason for the biases against time-honored evil races, such as the Drow, Orcs and Mummies other than "they look different and ugly and D&D 3.5 says they're ebul," or an explanation for the various fantastical elements showing up in the established setting of Calradia in the first place.

Maybe that's intentional to allow players more freedom to choose their own roleplay, but if that's the case then more than one angle needs to be considered. Even as a necromancer, my characters tend not to raze villages, attack caravans, and would generally have an honorable reputation - after all, it's much harder to build an empire if there's nobody left to rule over and everyone hates you, and short term gains for long term losses are rarely worth it. In headcanon, he may be using unorthodox and unsavory methods to accomplish his goals, but it limits the number of lives being lost by approximately half, and gives the newly dead a way to continue living, in a fashion.

In general though, I tend towards rogues and mages as fun classes, with chaotic neutral or Noble Demon tendencies at worst, as I view any type of extremism or fanaticism (in good, evil, religion, atheism, emotion, logic, etc.) as the sort of thing that both limits people and causes so much unnecessary conflict; striking a balance and seeking options optimal to all parties involved in a situation suits me just fine.

There is far more gray in the world than there is black and white, and no matter how you play the game you're likely going to kill hundreds, if not thousands, if not by your own hand then through your men. At its core, that's what Warband all about though: it's still "GTA gaming" in a power trip fantasy, whether you are backed by legions of undead, blessed by your god to perform murder on their behalf, or dabbling somewhere in the gray areas between; no matter how you sugar coat it in chivalry, light, honor and glory, people still are dead at the end of the day.

Unrelated, but I would say that N0ught is a solid blow to the "necromancy makes modders have bad things happen" theory. I would hope that the concept of curses would be derided in this day and age, but as mentioned, people have twisted less to accomplish more by the general populace's stupidity and inability to think for themselves outside of what they've been brought up to believe.

I noticed this only after updating to the most recent patch (P4) - I was able to get around it by hitting M (the class hotkey) then clicking on Necromancer and then selecting the spell. Bit of an oddity, but should still be usable.

I was sort of disappointed when I saw this in the P4 patch notes at https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,279776.msg8942347.html#msg8942347:

      v150 is the last series where player necromancy exists; the next player series will not have necromancer as an option. 

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Between this and Solid and Shade there aren't too many good necromancer games that enable you to build an undead army, so I'm sad that it's going to be gone.

I actually just finished making a rather large post for the Game Mechanics thead, so I'm glad you mentioned it. 

Currently, there doesn't appear to be a way to recruit the "ultra endgame" troops unless you have a high reputation with the faction they're with. Some method of doing this, if not already implemented, when creating your own empire would be awesome. Perhaps a way of choosing what race of empire you wish to be when starting your rule, and a high cost to change this at a later point, rather than having to pay a price in time and money for each individual village, castle and town.

Removal of morale penalties from risen undead troops. Mummies are intelligent, free willed undead, so it is acceptable to have them abandon at times, if things are going badly. However, Shadows, Zombies and Skeletons are risen from your power and linked to you, so they shouldn't grumble about the party being too large, or suffering too many losses. To quote How to Be a Villain, by Neil Zawacki:

"The undead require very little maintenance and rarely demand a salary or benefits. What they lack in speed and agility they more than make up for in persistence and can-do attitude. You won't hear any sass or whining from the undead! Since the victims themselves are transformed into walking undead, these henchmen are a smart investment that will grow your organization even when you are busy with other tasks."

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Unique buildings for towns based on the race that rules them would also be amazing. Some examples I can think of:
Necropolis: (Mummy) Raises basic undead units every week, adding them to the garrison. Can be configured for masses of level 1 units, such as zombies or skeletons, or a few advanced units, such as later tier mummies or shadows.
Gunsmith's Forge: (Dwarf) Enables advanced firearm units to be trained directly in the town, separate from the Recruit Units menu. Allows better firearms to be purchased from the town it was created in.
Temple of the Damned: (Any race, though extremely expensive, and lowers relation with "good" factions) Allows demon units to be recruited, in fairly small numbers. Possible method of getting demons to be recruitable aside from signing them up from your prison list. Requires a sacrifice of imprisoned units to function, giving a return based on the level of prisoners consumed. No more ransom brokers needed!
Assassin's Guild: (Drow) Allows you to hire and send out "hit squads," or parties that seek out a specific target and attempt to eliminate them. If unable to complete the mission, they may refund a portion of gold used. Very small random chance to have the party return and attempt to kill you instead.
Bank: (Any) Gives an income boost based on the prosperity of the town. Functions similarly to the Gnomish bank in the Four Ways Inn, if not explicitly linked to it and any other constructed banks.
Barracks: (Native Races, possibly in lesser forms for others) Gives a considerable boost to automatically training any units in the garrison. A way to ensure that the native races aren't completely neglected from selection as a base for your empire. Requires additional upkeep as training costs.

Some of the things from Floris I would love to see added (especially as someone who almost always attempts to initiate his own rule at some point):

Patrols. Initiated from either a new recruitable NPC, or the existing companion appointed, they would help keep your land clear of the annoying, tiny bandit stacks that wreck your economy en masse in the late game.

Town Recruiting/Training. Similar to the above, it sends out a messenger of sorts who gathers troop of the type you chose, then returns them to the castle/town. Once there, you can pay a weekly fee for a trainer to spend some time leveling up these new units.

Bandit Heroes. Or some other method of congregating the large number of bandit stacks into larger ones, causing them to become a much more serious threat if left unchecked. I recently ran by the Khergit Khanate with a 200 or so stack of my own units, and the number of 10-30, uncatchable steppe bandits was extremely annoying.

Troop tree report. The ability to see the equipment, stats and cost of each portion of the troop progression from the Reports screen. Not essential, just useful if you end up planning an army, especially for the new races.

(For Ransom Brokers) Sell all prisoners. A quick way to simply sell off any prisoners in your inventory. If possible, a way to pay the broker on a weekly basis to stay in a town of your choosing.

The current issue I have with starting my own rule is the lack of features compared to other mods. I can run around with a stack of 200+ troops easily, destroying enemy forces as a necromancer, but I run into issues with swarms of 10-30 troop bandit units destroying caravans and peasants that I cannot catch up to. This subsequently damages my economy, making it a bit more difficult to keep up with upkeep, or migrating villages to my preferred races.

That's further complicated if I wanted to go complete undead, as there are still a few bugs hanging around with some tiers of Mummy units counting as "good," causing morale penalties on a daily basis.

Another thing I've encountered is the fact that certain lords (such as those in the Blazing Hand) get stacks of 500+ troops, whereas I, as a level 20ish+ lord with maxed Leadership can maintain at maximum around 200-250 at most. While I can maintain any losses via Necromancy, these fodder units fill out the rest of my vacancies too quickly, and aren't as useful in the numbers I can get, even with Battle Size Changer at around 500. This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that my character, a fairly powerful mage, can simply kite the (mostly) infantry troops around indefinitely on a starter horse, pelting them with Magic Missile and Missile Storm until the battle ends, partially by virtue of the healing ring. Though not everyone will have the ability to take on a fifth of an army by themselves.

The Orcs get patrols around the Bloody Cliffs, so I'm hoping this ends up as a feature for player empires in the future, along with the ability to automatically train stacks in town, and automatic recruiting, similar to the Floris mod.

As far as I've seen, there's no passive effect from it while travelling at the moment, only when you play in cities.

To expand on the Bards getting a number of active skills, perhaps a sort of aura emanating from the player (only one can active at a time) with varying effects that can help allies or hinder foes. Bards aren't true spellcasters, after all. Would require a musical instrument in your inventory, or perhaps a certain type of weapon that is more beneficial to Bards (Singing Sword, etc), in order to take effect. Or even wield-able instruments. Smack the crap out of someone with your phat lute then play a little tune.

Haste Aura: Like the haste spell, but constant, at a reduced speed rate.

Fear Aura: Like the Lich's, but a smaller AoE, and reduced likelihood of success.

Courage Aura: Prevents nearby allies from fleeing. Sort of a last resort ability.

Inspiration Aura: Not sure if possible, but add a small melee damage and attack speed bonus to allies.

Dread Aura: Similarly, a malus for attack damage and speed to enemies.

Darkness Aura: Causes nearby enemy ranged characters to be affected by the Darkness effect.

Trueshot Aura: Nearby allied ranged combatants get a bonus to accuracy and damage, if possible.

Vitality Aura: Minor regeneration effect to all allies in an area of effect.

Degeneration Aura: Minor damage over time effect to all nearby enemies.

At 10 Entertainment, the auras would have approximately half or quarter effect of comparable mage spells, to balance the fact that they are "always on" type abilities.

New spells:

Earthquake
When cast, it affects a very large AoE around the targeted area, doing minimal damage but causing a temporary knockdown effect to all affected units.

Grasp of the Damned
Causes enemies in the area of effect to be held in place and take a minor damage over time effect. AoE size and damage is affected by the Necromancy skill instead of just pure Magic Power.

Drawing some inspiration from Roguelikes and D&D:

Not sure if it would be possible through scripting, but a weapon similar to the Magebane enchantment from D&D. It would be an anti mage weapon, dealing below average damage to anything with 0 Magic Power. However, the more Magic Power the target has, the more damage it does. Something with 5 Magic Power might take an additional 10 armor piercing damage, while it could destroy Magic Power 10 archmages in comparatively few hits. Likely would be best as a melee weapon, such as a sword, as otherwise it would be far too easy to simply pick off mages at a distance with a relatively accurate bow as they fling spells in futility.

Magicbane would be a 1 handed dagger, borrowing from the Nethack universe. In addition to providing a small bonus to Magic Defense, upon hit at a 40% chance, it applies a random status effect, ranging from stun to fear, and applying a small amount of additional damage per effect. The effects could be those already incorporated into the mod; Fear, Chaos, Acid Damage (a la Acid Arrow), Turn Undead, Dispel, and Charm or new effects such as adding a health bar above the enemy when hit, a la Floris mod (if possible), akin to the Probe effect from Nethack. Mount & Blade tends to treat daggers as mere backup weapons, so some diversification in available weapons would be awesome.

Some form of two handed Axe or Greatsword, possibly a Warhammer, that could only be swung (no stabby bits, so a flat point greatsword), with a sort of Cleaving effect that would require large amounts of strength to wield (25, like the Maul of the Titans, or possibly 30). The Cleave effect would allow it to deal a small portion of damage delivered on the initial strike to 2-3 nearby enemies, somewhat narrowing the gap between mages and dedicated fighters in their abillity to take on large amounts of troops en masse. Or make it not differentiate between enemies or allies; a berserker doesn't.

Lich Transformation info from guspav (mainly for my own reference, as such):

Aside from the basic stat bonuses/penalties, a bit of flavor to their power would be great to make this costly transformation more interesting. White bolts not (currently) being used by any troops, enemy or ally, practically negates that disadvantage entirely, unless you decide to try hitting yourself with one, but becoming vilified by most factions (presumably just about everyone except the Lich King himself) is a huge drawback.

Perhaps it can force your Necromancy skill above the normally available 10 to make raising vast armies of undead easier, and eliminate undead breaking free of your control, provided you have a Necromancer's Staff in your character loadout as well. If possible, remove the morale penalty for large parties of all exclusively undead troops, and increase the maximum party size by a reasonable amount to compensate for the fact that a large chunk of your army will end up being relatively weak hordes of units.

Barring that, the option (which could be configurable at camp, under the Necromancy menu) to raise smaller numbers of more advanced units after a battle, created at a fraction of the rate of fodder troops, but proportionally stronger. Something the size of a balrog, but composed of many corpses of fallen enemies, to end up creating a sort of flesh golem or abomination shock trooper of sorts, like an unholy version of the mage's animated constructs.

I've always had a bit of a fascination with the concept of raising the enemy's numbers against their own; not having to worry about supply lines, recruiting or food, just an all out war of attrition due to every loss for an enemy being a gain to you, even if it ends up being cannon fodder troops like skeletons or zombies supplemented by a few heavy shock troopers and spellcasters. I haven't found a good "lead a horde of undead troops risen from your enemies" game since Diablo 2, so this portion of the mod is the most fun for me.

Perhaps the Lich transformation can make it impossible to lose slaved undead with a 10 in Necromancy and the staff, as a benefit for making many other factions hate you?

guspav said:

I suppose the ganging up of bandits is because they "know" they are a lot and can all join the battle and try to destroy the player. The behavior is weird, though, maybe it's just too many of them right now.

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If my estimates are correct from using a tool to read the number of units on the world map, in my game which has lasted at least 178 days currently has a grand total of 1000 or so different parties on the map. While I'm surprised the engine can handle that many, it was quite annoying to see a swarm of various types of units congregating around certain areas.

Is there any chance of adding in mods similar to Floris' pack that allow for more robust kingdom management, such as running patrols independent of lords, automatically recruiting units for city garrisons and such?